Latest Marvin West column

[JacketVol]

That is precisely his point. You're calling that "success."

From where we were, yes, successful. Future success is to actually winning some championships.

 

[volfan102455]

I think our D will return to top 30-40 form. I think we'll be able to run the ball. To me, the difference between success and failure this year will be if QB can have precision on short/medium range passes and can WR's get early separation off the line for quick hit passes. It appears, if QD is the man, that the long ball is a strength. If this comes together, and the injury bug doesn't decimate us again, 2017 will be a good year.

I agree with this. I think we will be stronger on D. I believe offense will come together.

The big games seem to be more spread out as well. They are not back to back to back to back with no break. I think that played a huge factor last year with injuries and general fatigue of the team which resulted with the major meltdown against Alabama. And I don't think the team ever really recovered from the mental aspect of that meltdown to be honest.

 

[njvols]

And I was attending UT during the Major years - internet had not been born - but similar articles all the time back then. I bet some of these old timers can just pull past articles do a find / replace on names, change a few words here and there and article is ready.

I don't think of myself as an old timer, but may be. Vol passion has always been there. When I was a kid, I remember someone sent a moving van to Bill Battle's home. I also remember jokes about Johnny taking too many sips from the flask when, before Cockrell came on board, it seemed all we did was run 3 yards and a cloud of dust. However, even in down times, the Johnny Majors show, with John Ward was always "must watch TV".

 

[LA Vol]

Truth is this fan base has always been divided. Some want what their brother Alabama has and always complains. They are only satisfied in the years Tennessee wins the SEC. All other years = fire the coach.

Maybe, but I don't recall it ever being worse. IDT fans are riled up about not winning the SEC; I think they're riled up about not winning the SECE when it was practically giftwrapped with a big orange bow. People tend to accuse UT fans of unrealistic expectations, but I think UT's expectations trend lower than other powerhouse programs with similar resources.

 

[volfan102455]

I don't think of myself as an old timer, but may be. Vol passion has always been there. When I was a kid, I remember someone sent a moving van to Bill Battle's home. I also remember jokes about Johnny taking too many sips from the flask when, before Cockrell came on board, it seemed all we did was run 3 yards and a cloud of dust. However, even in down times, the Johnny Majors show, with John Ward was always "must watch TV".

I remember all that too. With the internet and social media this gets amplified to the masses quickly.

 

[gunner]

If you fire Butch based on his lack of results the last 2 seasons at UT, what is the plan to replace him?

UT shouldn't fire a successful coach for the sake of firing a coach, that's the same mistake UT made during the 2008 season and the plan to replace him was Lane Kiffin.

 

[volfan102455]

Maybe, but I don't recall it ever being worse. IDT fans are riled up about not winning the SEC; I think they're riled up about not winning the SECE when it was practically giftwrapped with a big orange bow. People tend to accuse UT fans of unrealistic expectations, but I think UT's expectations trend lower than other powerhouse programs with similar resources.

I don't think it is any worse or less. With the internet and social media it is just more visible today thus giving the world (... and the trolls ...) an opportunity to join in and stir the pot.

Prior to social media it was via print and word of mouth only, thus those that lived outside of the core fan base didn't see it like they do today.

If you didn't read the newspapers or didn't see other fans except at the games, you probably would not even realize that there was any debating going on around the coach.

 

[volfan102455]

Maybe, but I don't recall it ever being worse. IDT fans are riled up about not winning the SEC; I think they're riled up about not winning the SECE when it was practically giftwrapped with a big orange bow. People tend to accuse UT fans of unrealistic expectations, but I think UT's expectations trend lower than other powerhouse programs with similar resources.

So you don't think they were riled up during those years that Tennessee ended up 2nd or lower to Florida or Georgia? Or when Tennessee lost to Memphis? Seriously?

 

[savannahfan]

Was this article "stolen" from right here on VolNation? Sure seems I have read this or better written right here over the last few weeks.

 

[FlyFishnVol]

All the sports media that report on UT are anti-Butch......no sure why. Butch is what UT needs for the long haul after Fulmer, Kiffen and Dooley's debacles........UT needs consistency and development. IF UT Fan's want what Bama has.....sorry, but that boat sailed when Fulmer got lazy and wanted the AD job and started playing politician, he got what he deserved, he put his wants before UT Football........enough said.


Go Butch and Go Vols!!!

 

[VFL-82-JP]

I don't think it is any worse or less. With the internet and social media it is just more visible today thus giving the world (... and the trolls ...) an opportunity to join in and stir the pot.

Prior to social media it was via print and word of mouth only, thus those that lived outside of the core fan base didn't see it like they do today.

If you didn't read the newspapers or didn't see other fans except at the games, you probably would not even realize that there was any debating going on around the coach.

Oh, I think it is worse today. Used to be, folks lived in little information bubbles. Around the cooler at work, or at the bar. People you saw face to face, talked football with.

Knowing people by name and face is a natural moderator of extremes. The internet, with its social anonymity, releases people to explore those extremes. Today, many people go out to the edges (of sarcasm, belittling, even hatred) without even thinking twice. Something most of them would never do face to face.

So yeah, the vitriol is far more prevalent today than it has ever been. Not only more visible, truly more prevalent.

It's a pity.

... break/break ...

This article by Marvin West is neither good nor bad. It's one fellow's opinion, which happens to echo about 20-25% of VolNation's opinion (that % is based on a recent thread asking our expectations of Butch's chances to take us to championhips). So he's representing the minority viewpoint of our crowd, but it's not a rare viewpoint by any means.

*shrug* it's his opinion. That's all. And worth about that much.

 

[savannahfan]

I agree with this. I think we will be stronger on D. I believe offense will come together.

The big games seem to be more spread out as well. They are not back to back to back to back with no break. I think that played a huge factor last year with injuries and general fatigue of the team which resulted with the major meltdown against Alabama. And I don't think the team ever really recovered from the mental aspect of that meltdown to be honest.

I think you are right, but to me the general fatigue came in the A&M game. That game was a killer for both teams.

 

[Boca Vol]

From where we were, yes, successful. Future success is to actually winning some.

But that's not success...it is simply better than where we were.

 

[peppervol]

Marvin West is a legendary writer. It is a sign of the times that those that disagree feel it necessary to brand it as drivel. Opinions should be welcome. That is part of Free Speech that has been driven underground. Now opinions with which you agree are branded as news and accepted as fact. Others are shot down and dismissed. Learn from other views and build your own views rather than blindly accept what you're told to accept.

Great post, OBB. Very well stated and thanks....

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

If you fire Butch based on his lack of results the last 2 seasons at UT, what is the plan to replace him?

UT shouldn't fire a successful coach for the sake of firing a coach, that's the same mistake UT made during the 2008 season and the plan to replace him was Lane Kiffin.

If 8-4 defines success for you, you're rooting for the wrong program.

 

[ALLVOL24/7/365]

I personally am tired of crap like this, "legendary sports writer" or not. He is probably PO'ed because the good ole boys connections he had on the Hill 30 years ago are severed. Just let the boys go out and play. Heck I am old enough to remember Doug Dickey as coach. I remember all the angst I had in 98, heck we had PM for 4 years and were one of the best teams in the country those years, but we could not beat CSS at Florida. I was afraid to think how bad it was going to be the next season with some backup to PM who had hardly played in any game. Now he was going to be our starting QB. I "JUST KNEW" we were going to have a really long season. Low and behold we did have a long season, because we played the last game of the season against FSU and won the Natty. We just should let the season play out and enjoy the football. JMO TIFWIW. Go VOLS

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

But that's not success...it is simply better than where we were.

We used to talk about part of this fanbase in terms of battered wife syndrome. Probably not a PC thing to do then or now, but we really seem to have a lot of people who are happy just to not get punched in the face as much as they used to. I don't get it.

 

[Boca Vol]

We used to talk about part of this fanbase in terms of battered wife syndrome. Probably not a PC thing to do then or now, but we really seem to have a lot of people who are happy just to not get punched in the face as much as they used to. I don't get it.

Yep. If you keep lowering the bar eventually you'll get over it.

Winning the SEC East doesn't necessarily mean you're a good team...see UF the last 2 years.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

If you fire Butch based on his lack of results the last 2 seasons at UT, what is the plan to replace him?

Most ADs keep a short list in their back pocket at all times just in case. I'm sure Currie has smguys in mind already in case things go south this season.

UT shouldn't fire a successful coach for the sake of firing a coach, that's the same mistake UT made during the 2008 season and the plan to replace him was Lane Kiffin.

To be fair, Kiffin was a hot name at the time and part of the reason Hamilton made the move to fire Fulmer was because he knew he could get Kiffin. Hindsight being 20/20 it was a terrible idea, but I'm not sure we see another Kiffin type situation at UT for a while.

If we fire Butch, odds are we end up with someone from a somewhat similar background: a guy who showed promise at a G5 school and can bring some new energy to the program.


Granted, I'm hoping the new staff does great and this is all a moot point. But if this season bombs and Butch is out, it's not like we won't be able to find anybody who can match him.

 

[orangeluvr]

The law of averages implies that the defense has to be better, even without Derek Barnett. All we need are healthy tackles, dependable linebacking and defensive backs who look around now and then, just in case the football is aloft.
:lolabove::lolabove::lolabove:

The secondary was hard to watch last season, no where to go but up for the entire defense.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

Not to start a debate, but I don't remember Kiffin being a hot name after the flame out in Oakland. What I do recall is that he apparently dazzled Hamilton and the right boosters with his 'USC East' plan and bringing in Monte.

Hiring the perfect head coach is like having a child. If you wait for the perfect time you'll never have one. Just have to make the best hire you can with the information and resources at your disposal, and hope for the best.

 

[TennTradition]

If you fire Butch based on his lack of results the last 2 seasons at UT, what is the plan to replace him?

UT shouldn't fire a successful coach for the sake of firing a coach, that's the same mistake UT made during the 2008 season and the plan to replace him was Lane Kiffin.

They won't be firing a successful coach if they fire him.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Not to start a debate, but I don't remember Kiffin being a hot name after the flame out in Oakland. What I do recall is that he apparently dazzled Hamilton and the right boosters with his 'USC East' plan and bringing in Monte.

Hiring the perfect head coach is like having a child. If you wait for the perfect time you'll never have one. Just have to make the best hire you can with the information and resources at your disposal, and hope for the best.

He still had a good deal of the USC shine on him and many thought his failure in Oakland was mainly due to the combination of a meddlesome owner and just not being ready at 31 years to be an NFL HC just yet. Hard to get the respect of a team when many of the players are your age or older.

 

[volfan102455]

I personally am tired of crap like this, "legendary sports writer" or not. He is probably PO'ed because the good ole boys connections he had on the Hill 30 years ago are severed. Just let the boys go out and play. Heck I am old enough to remember Doug Dickey as coach. I remember all the angst I had in 98, heck we had PM for 4 years and were one of the best teams in the country those years, but we could not beat CSS at Florida. I was afraid to think how bad it was going to be the next season with some backup to PM who had hardly played in any game. Now he was going to be our starting QB. I "JUST KNEW" we were going to have a really long season. Low and behold we did have a long season, because we played the last game of the season against FSU and won the Natty. We just should let the season play out and enjoy the football. JMO TIFWIW. Go VOLS

I was the same in 1998 as was most - the sky was going to fall - but it didn't.

That doesn't imply it will not in 2017 - but there are players who have been waiting patiently for their turn. You can bet they are going to give 200% and take full advantage of that.

Anything folks are saying right now is purely 'guessing'.

 

[volfan102455]

They won't be firing a successful coach if they fire him.

Depends upon the number of wins in 2017.

Some seem certain with the talent that the ceiling next year is 7 or 8. So if the team wins that many, he has succeeded based on the expectation of most based on the talent. If the team wins more than 8, say 9, he has exceeded what most believe is the ceiling based on the talent.

You all can't have it both ways - predict X wins due to talent and then say someone is not successful if they don't do something that you say is NOT possible based on the talent.

That is like saying that ETSU should not be able to beat Alabama then firing the coach because he did not beat Alabama.

This is a key year for this coaching staff, no doubt. It is the first year where key players graduated and/or went to the NFL. How well a program has progressed towards establishing lasting momentum, whether it be via play in real games or behind the scenes,becomes apparent in seasons like this.

In 2017, if Tennessee defeats those teams they should and is competitive against the best teams (Alabama, LSU, Florida, Georgia, Tech) maybe even winning a few of those games which I believe will happen - then the program in definitely on the right track and not regressing.