Theory For Recruiting Problems

#52
#52
Basketball and baseball don't have top facilities...tough conferences...they found winners...winning turned into recruits...it's almost...cyclical dare I say.
 
#55
#55
Something that was left out was that Tennessee couldn’t recruit the prop 48 athletes due to Hamilton wanting better academics.
This was huge in recruiting those days.
 
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#56
#56
GoodlettsvilleVol said:
It is my strong opinion we have been falling short in our recruiting classes for some time now. This baffles me since, with our nice facilities, we should be having consistent top 5/10 recruit groups.

We were doing quite well in Fulmer's first years. Phil was a recruiting machine. Put him in a recruits living room with mom, dad, uncle's, etc. and the man would shine. He got more than his share of top recruits then the bottom fell out. What happenned?

I've heard more than a few posters say Phil got lazy but not one of those knows that for a fact. They're just looking for someone to blame.

Anyway, here is my theory for the downturn:

Historically Vols have made a living cherry picking top players from, among others, the eight states that abut our borders. We've all but owned the Carolinas. Georgia, Ohio, Mississippi and the like. And we could go into Alabama, Louisiana, Florida and others with great success.

What changed? As a group those state's colleges have improved their own football programs giving their star recruits more reason to stay instate. Hence, it's more difficult to harvest their prime players.

To me Fulmer didn't get lazy. He put forth the same effort he always did. This trend began to occur during his tenure and effected him.

Now, I am certainly not saying that group of programs in those state's became stellar but collectively they got better which appealed to their recruits.

The record shows that recruiting for UT has dropped and has been a challenge ever since.

It bothers me that we can't recruit with the Alabama's, Georgia's, and the Ohio State's.

JMHO
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I believe Fulmer was recruiting well. We fired him when he made a tough coaching change without the players to fit the style of offense he was running. Chavis on the other hand did not change with the times. Regardless, we should never have let Fulmer go. He won something like 14 of 16 8+ win seasons. We have seen that twice since then and we ran that guy out of town trying to get anywhere near where Fulmer was for most of his career.
 
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#57
#57
Elite players want to go to programs that will not only prepare them for the NFL, but be successful in the NFL. Tennessee has not proven they can do either since the early 2000s.
 
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#59
#59
You don't need a theory or a hypothesis for this. About half of the posters for me said it directly or in other ways. We stopped winning. Many of the posts talk about why we didn't win or contributing factors. They all add up to we have been winning.

Got it? We have not won.

Winning fixes everything.
 
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#60
#60
GoodlettsvilleVol said:
It is my strong opinion we have been falling short in our recruiting classes for some time now. This baffles me since, with our nice facilities, we should be having consistent top 5/10 recruit groups.

We were doing quite well in Fulmer's first years. Phil was a recruiting machine. Put him in a recruits living room with mom, dad, uncle's, etc. and the man would shine. He got more than his share of top recruits then the bottom fell out. What happenned?

I've heard more than a few posters say Phil got lazy but not one of those knows that for a fact. They're just looking for someone to blame.

Anyway, here is my theory for the downturn:

Historically Vols have made a living cherry picking top players from, among others, the eight states that abut our borders. We've all but owned the Carolinas. Georgia, Ohio, Mississippi and the like. And we could go into Alabama, Louisiana, Florida and others with great success.

What changed? As a group those state's colleges have improved their own football programs giving their star recruits more reason to stay instate. Hence, it's more difficult to harvest their prime players.

To me Fulmer didn't get lazy. He put forth the same effort he always did. This trend began to occur during his tenure and effected him.

Now, I am certainly not saying that group of programs in those state's became stellar but collectively they got better which appealed to their recruits.

The record shows that recruiting for UT has dropped and has been a challenge ever since.

It bothers me that we can't recruit with the Alabama's, Georgia's, and the Ohio State's.

JMHO
Click to expand...
No he was lazy.

I knew several scholarship players that said the same thing. Phil didnt interact with the team much, if you werent a star you were lucky he knew your name. What you saw on the sideline with his arms crossed just watching was what he did on the practice field. Cant imagine he did all that much more in recruiting.

Remember he also let the chief get away with not really recruiting either.

Sorry to maybe burst your bubble but Phil was straight up phoning it in there at the end.
 
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#61
#61
You can take top tier facilities, tradition and everything and ruin it with bottom tier administration and coaching hires. It’s like taking a classic Shelby Cobra and filling it with dog crap.
 
#62
#62
BigOrangeMojo said:
Phil didn't get lazy as much as OU hired Stoops, OSU hired Tressel, LSU hired Saban, USC hired Spurrier, UF hired Meyer, and UGA hired Richt....
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Fulmer’s decline started when guys like Cut, Chavis, Brooks, Washington & Caldwell decide they didn’t want to recruit as hard. Fulmer basically turned recruiting over to Trooper Taylor. It was entirely too much for one guy. Yeah Cut would recruit a chosen QB, Brooks a DL or Chavis a LB but majority was done by Taylor. Fire away but it’s the truth. I heard this from players and parents in the program at the time.
 
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#63
#63
Remy said:
When you let the Patrick Willis' and Donta Hightowers in your own backyard get away from you, in Willis' case, he begged to come to UT, you begin to see the issue. We let all kinds of in state talent leave these days. Here it is in a nutshell. Clemson now in recruiting is who we used to be. They pretty much get who they want in either Cackalacks, Tennessee, Georgia, Virginia, and some select kids out of Florida. We boom preferred walkons with our current staff. We'll see how that works out for us when our product hits the field this fall.
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Don't believe everything you hear. Fulmer did come to Bruceton recruiting Willis and even told him he could pick any SEC team he wanted he was that good. Willis was taken in by an Ole Miss fan much like the Oher story. I can't say if Finley guided Patrick or not but there is enough out there to lead me to believe he did.
 
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#65
#65
GoodlettsvilleVol said:
It is my strong opinion we have been falling short in our recruiting classes for some time now. This baffles me since, with our nice facilities, we should be having consistent top 5/10 recruit groups.

We were doing quite well in Fulmer's first years. Phil was a recruiting machine. Put him in a recruits living room with mom, dad, uncle's, etc. and the man would shine. He got more than his share of top recruits then the bottom fell out. What happenned?

I've heard more than a few posters say Phil got lazy but not one of those knows that for a fact.
Click to expand...

I just have to say that unless you were in a living room when Fulmer came to recruit you to UT, then you don't no that for a fact either.
 
#67
#67
VAVol85 said:
I was in Atlanta when Goof was coaching and Spurrier would troll him about all the blue chip players that went to UGA and were never heard from again. Spurrier was was always entertaining (except when trash talking the Vols).
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Spurrier was entertaining even when crapping on the vols it just hurt.

His you can spell citrus without it comment was brutal cause he kept sticking us there.

I hated him so so much but the man could coach.
 
#68
#68
GoodlettsvilleVol said:
It is my strong opinion we have been falling short in our recruiting classes for some time now. This baffles me since, with our nice facilities, we should be having consistent top 5/10 recruit groups.

We were doing quite well in Fulmer's first years. Phil was a recruiting machine. Put him in a recruits living room with mom, dad, uncle's, etc. and the man would shine. He got more than his share of top recruits then the bottom fell out. What happenned?

I've heard more than a few posters say Phil got lazy but not one of those knows that for a fact. They're just looking for someone to blame.

Anyway, here is my theory for the downturn:

Historically Vols have made a living cherry picking top players from, among others, the eight states that abut our borders. We've all but owned the Carolinas. Georgia, Ohio, Mississippi and the like. And we could go into Alabama, Louisiana, Florida and others with great success.

What changed? As a group those state's colleges have improved their own football programs giving their star recruits more reason to stay instate. Hence, it's more difficult to harvest their prime players.

To me Fulmer didn't get lazy. He put forth the same effort he always did. This trend began to occur during his tenure and effected him.

Now, I am certainly not saying that group of programs in those state's became stellar but collectively they got better which appealed to their recruits.

The record shows that recruiting for UT has dropped and has been a challenge ever since.

It bothers me that we can't recruit with the Alabama's, Georgia's, and the Ohio State's.

JMHO
Click to expand...
NCAA
 
#69
#69
butchna said:
He started worshipping at the altar of recruiting services instead of evaluating in-house. Willis was a 3 star…he went with 5 star Chris Donald. Current star hoggers woulda been thumbsup with that move.
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Actually, it was Ernie Sims and Daniel Brooks that Fulmer was enamored with. Sims went to FSU, but never reached the level Willis did. Brooks did come to Tennessee, but got kicked off the team. It might be that Fulmer had tunnel vision. But when you have an in-state talent like Willis who might have been underrated at the time, but is begging you for an offer to your face on his family's dime? You are an arrogant fool for not getting the full skinny on him. If that isn't partial proof that Fulmer got a bit lazy or dumb or both?

So, the next time somebody wants to sing, "How Great Phil Art"? Find another tenor.
 
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#70
#70
jcvols24 said:
Don't believe everything you hear. Fulmer did come to Bruceton recruiting Willis and even told him he could pick any SEC team he wanted he was that good. Willis was taken in by an Ole Miss fan much like the Oher story. I can't say if Finley guided Patrick or not but there is enough out there to lead me to believe he did.
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Nobody from Tennessee recruited him. Patrick's own words..

Willis grew up in Bruceton, Tenn. with dreams of playing for the University of Tennessee. To his disappointment, the Vols never showed any interest.

“I wanted to go there so bad,” Willis told The Tennessean on Monday. “After every (high school) game my dad and I would get in the car and drive five hours to go to Knoxville to watch them play on an unofficial visit. This was on our gas money and our time. I just wanted to show them how bad I wanted to be there.”

It apparently had no effect. Tennessee never recruited Willis at any point during his senior year of high school. He ended up at Ole Miss, and from there he went on to be selected by the Niners in the first round of the 2007 NFL Draft. Everything worked out for the best, but Willis was not shy in discussing how crushed he was that the Vols didn’t want him.

“I can’t forget being there and you have all these other big-time recruits there and they are shaking their hands and the coaches are talking to them,” he explained. “The coaches never shook my hand. They never talked to me. …

“I’ll never forget getting in the car with my foster dad and we’re riding home and I cried. I cried, not because I was sad, but more so because I knew how badly I wanted to be a Tennessee Vol. I knew what type of player I could be.”
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Patrick Willis says he cried when Tennessee didn't recruit him in high school

“I was a Vols fan growing up. That was like America’s Team. I wanted to go there so bad. After every game my dad and I would get in the car and drive five hours to go to Knoxville to watch them play on an unofficial visit. This was on our gas money and our time. I just wanted to show them how bad I wanted to be there. I can’t forget being there and you have all these other big-time recruits there and they are shaking their hands and the coaches are talking to them. The coaches never shook my hand. They never talked to me. One day I just got tired of doing that. My senior year, I remember going up and saying, ‘Coach I see all of the other guys getting love. I really want to come here. I’m interested in coming here. Do you have something for me? Maybe a scholarship offer? Maybe something just saying you want me?’ But I didn’t get that. I got, ‘Well you’re having a hard time. We’re recruiting two other linebackers, Ernie Sims and Daniel Brooks. Those are the two guys we want.’
“I never forget looking at him and being like he basically said, ‘We’re not really interested, we don’t want you.’ I’ll never forget getting in the car with my foster dad and we’re riding home and I cried. I cried, not because I was sad, but more so because I knew how badly I wanted to be a Tennessee Vol. I knew what type of player I could be.”
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Patrick Willis: Unwanted at Tennessee, legend at Ole Miss
 
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#71
#71
NEO said:
Spurrier was entertaining even when crapping on the vols it just hurt.

His you can spell citrus without it comment was brutal cause he kept sticking us there.

I hated him so so much but the man could coach.
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Well the rest of the country apparently found it entertaining. But if you were a Vols fan? It was suppose to. Especially since he was from our state.

Who knows? Had Tennessee changed it's offense to get Spurrier as a player? It might have paid off for more than four years.
 
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#72
#72
We Suck Theorem: (Expectations*∞)(√(search firm coaching hunt)(bargain basement hires³)+((0)(Player Development)−(good coaching)(0))/(Jimmy Sexton³ + Mike Hamilton²)=h3rew(e)r
 
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#75
#75
TBrown said:
We don’t have top 5 facilities so why should we have top 5 classes based on facilities alone?
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I have to disagree about facilities. When it comes to that I'm pretty sure we can compete with most of the top programs in the country. Our troubles are are comprised of several things
but facilities are way down the list,imho.
 
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