USA Today: What to like about No. 18 Tennessee

[NeverWe'llSever]

You gotta love that O-line we've got!

 

[sjt18]

I tend to agree with your posts, and I think we agree here mostly. The damned if you do or don't comment is the direct result that I have no faith in the Athletic Department to actually go after a superior replacement to Jones. I feel we would just replace him with someone similar. And if that is the case, we might as well hold on to Jones. He runs a clean program and seems like a stand up guy.

I still hope he proves all of us wrong and we have a solid season. But if we are just going to run with another mid-major hire post Jones, then there is no point.

The larger point is that the Athletic Department and University needs to decide who we are. Are we going to stay true to being a historic top-ten, championship caliber program? Or are we going to take a different approach?

Mid-major hires aren't always bad hires. Urban Meyer coached two mid-majors. Unless you "buy" one of a handful of elite coaches then you either choose a successful lower level coach, a successful coordinator from a championship program, or recycle a "good" Power 5 coach and hope he finds his "championship gear" with you.

The problem IMO with the Jones hire is that no one seemed to look at the numbers behind the record. He won lots of games and tied or won conference championships. He did not have success against ranked teams. His success came primarily in and from years when he played a lot of losing teams. I know he beat who was in front of him... but if you are going to promote someone from the mid-majors it needs to be someone who makes a habit out of challenging or beating P-5 opponents and beats winning teams on his schedule at a high clip.

Jones tied for two Big East Championships at Cincy. In 2011, he had one win over a BE opponent who finished the season with a winning record finishing in a 3 way tie with WVU and 7-6 L'ville. In 2012, he again recorded only one win against a BE opponent that finished with a winning record. Good enough with a 4 way tie with L'ville, Rutgers, and Syracuse.


My point is that Jones has a pretty long history of not completely closing the deal when there's a big opportunity in front of him. If UT goes back on the market and promote a mid-major coach... it needs to be one that has won big games and championships in competitive conferences.

 

[General Jack]

For me, the equation is, anything less than an SEC East championship in 2017 is grounds for dismissal. It's way past time.

You've almost certainly set yourself up for disappointment.

 

[OrangeTsar]

You've almost certainly set yourself up for disappointment.

Not true. If you have no expectations, you cannot be disappointed.

 

[felloffthetrain]

If the Vols don't win the East at least, I believe Butch is gone. Georgia is going to be a tough win this year. I say, that if our team is playing well before Florida, we'll beat them this year. Probably lose to Bama again, though.

 

[Catbone]

Tennessee won't win the east and will go 7-5 or 8-4.

 

[81Orange]

Don't forget football is a business. It about bringing in the dollars not bragging rights. As long as the fan base is willing to open their wallets, Butch will be here. His buyout is part of that equation.

Butch just hired some good position coaches. I doubt they would have come if they thought he was leaving at the end of the 2017 season. I think the coaches expect the season results will be good enough to get Butch a 2018 season and I tend to agree.

When Butch arrived we were bleeding cash. I am guessing Butch and the administration had an agreement on keeping the staff budget low until things improved. I feel this is why we had a mid major staff and are just now correcting that. If I were the AD I would feel Butch has done a good job given the boundary conditions. In return I feel Butch got a big buyout to protect him. It seems 2016, 2017 and 2018 are the years the administration was pointing to as the real measuring stick. If 2017 results don't show us competing for the east I would expect an orderly coach change following 2018.

Suppose we have a decent year but loose a tie breaker for the east in 2017. Then follow with a top ten recruiting class. If your the AD what do you do with Butch's contract? We would still not have broken through but may be poised for an sec championship run.

Richt got fired at GA for consistently winning 10 games and they had no trouble attracting a "good" coach. "Good" is TBD. There are too many coaches that want their shot at running a major program for us not to find one even if Butch were fired for winning 9 or 10.

 

[johnrlansford]

Don't forget football is a business. It about bringing in the dollars not bragging rights. As long as the fan base is willing to open their wallets, Butch will be here. His buyout is part of that equation.

Butch just hired some good position coaches. I doubt they would have come if they thought he was leaving at the end of the 2017 season. I think the coaches expect the season results will be good enough to get Butch a 2018 season and I tend to agree.

When Butch arrived we were bleeding cash. I am guessing Butch and the administration had an agreement on keeping the staff budget low until things improved. I feel this is why we had a mid major staff and are just now correcting that. If I were the AD I would feel Butch has done a good job given the boundary conditions. In return I feel Butch got a big buyout to protect him. It seems 2016, 2017 and 2018 are the years the administration was pointing to as the real measuring stick. If 2017 results don't show us competing for the east I would expect an orderly coach change following 2018.

Suppose we have a decent year but loose a tie breaker for the east in 2017. Then follow with a top ten recruiting class. If your the AD what do you do with Butch's contract? We would still not have broken through but may be poised for an sec championship run.

Richt got fired at GA for consistently winning 10 games and they had no trouble attracting a "good" coach. "Good" is TBD. There are too many coaches that want their shot at running a major program for us not to find one even if Butch were fired for winning 9 or 10.

Smart hasn't proven to be a good coach at all. He lost to the same Vandy team we did. All Smart has done is recruit well and that is exactly how Butch started out as well. Now we will see if he can actually win with it, I have my doubts he will end up being a good coach.

I wouldn't fire Butch unless I already had a coach with a verbal agreement, we can't handle any more steps backwards, and Butch hasn't moved us anywhere but forward so far. Now let's see if he can get us over that good to great hump!!! Go Vols!!!

I think he will surprise many of the haters and be here for a while...JMHO!

 

[sjt18]

Smart hasn't proven to be a good coach at all. He lost to the same Vandy team we did. All Smart has done is recruit well and that is exactly how Butch started out as well. Now we will see if he can actually win with it, I have my doubts he will end up being a good coach.

It is yet to be determined if Smart is a good HC. What we do know however is that he was one of the top high demand candidates for several years. He could have had several other jobs including UT. Firing Richt did not prevent UGA from getting a guy who was wanted by a lot of big programs.

I wouldn't fire Butch unless I already had a coach with a verbal agreement, we can't handle any more steps backwards, and Butch hasn't moved us anywhere but forward so far. Now let's see if he can get us over that good to great hump!!! Go Vols!!!

Not only by record by but the quality of play both in wins and losses... I would argue that '16 was a fairly significant step backwards. Jones did less with more not only compared to other coaches but his own performance in '15.

Most AD's keep good relations with potential replacements for their top positions. You do that not only because you might have to fire someone but also because someone might jump for a different job unexpectedly.

You really can't hire someone without going through a legit and accountable vetting/interviewing process.

I think he will surprise many of the haters and be here for a while...JMHO!

List the "haters".

You can list me among the doubters. He has not EARNED trust or faith. He's done good things. He's also failed in major ways and often exhibiting signs that he's not up to the job.

I don't hate Jones. I do recognize the difference between being a UT fan and being a Jones fan however. The goal is championship teams at UT... not protection of Jones' career.

 

[johnrlansford]

It is yet to be determined if Smart is a good HC. What we do know however is that he was one of the top high demand candidates for several years. He could have had several other jobs including UT. Firing Richt did not prevent UGA from getting a guy who was wanted by a lot of big programs.

Not only by record by but the quality of play both in wins and losses... I would argue that '16 was a fairly significant step backwards. Jones did less with more not only compared to other coaches but his own performance in '15.

Most AD's keep good relations with potential replacements for their top positions. You do that not only because you might have to fire someone but also because someone might jump for a different job unexpectedly.

You really can't hire someone without going through a legit and accountable vetting/interviewing process.


List the "haters".

You can list me among the doubters. He has not EARNED trust or faith. He's done good things. He's also failed in major ways and often exhibiting signs that he's not up to the job.

I don't hate Jones. I do recognize the difference between being a UT fan and being a Jones fan however. The goal is championship teams at UT... not protection of Jones' career.

Just because you ar ein high demand doesn't make you a successful hire.

Interms of the program 2016 wasn't a step backwards by any means, he maintained a winning record with 9 wins. Not meeting expectations doens't equal a step backwards.

Butch came to one of the worst situations that any coach could step into and has moved us forward. he has given no reason to doubt him, until we are moving backwards, and we aren't yet.

I think the staff salaries show the commitment that the university has for Butch Jones moving forward. The deciding year will be 2018, and winning the east is probably the target for 2018. He may win the east this year ans secure himself even longer.

You have to remember where were just a few short years ago to appreciate where we are now! Go Vols!

I am a realistic fan, not sure why I even come to Volnation with some of your unrealistic expectations and demands. Butch is my coach, until he isn't!!!

I will always support the coach Butch jones or someone else, I am a VOL fan, I will give my all for Tennessee everyday!!!

 

[butchna]

Just because you ar ein high demand doesn't make you a successful hire.

Interms of the program 2016 wasn't a step backwards by any means, he maintained a winning record with 9 wins. Not meeting expectations doens't equal a step backwards.

Butch came to one of the worst situations that any coach could step into and has moved us forward. he has given no reason to doubt him, until we are moving backwards, and we aren't yet.

I think the staff salaries show the commitment that the university has for Butch Jones moving forward. The deciding year will be 2018, and winning the east is probably the target for 2018. He may win the east this year ans secure himself even longer.

You have to remember where were just a few short years ago to appreciate where we are now! Go Vols!

I am a realistic fan, not sure why I even come to Volnation with some of your unrealistic expectations and demands. Butch is my coach, until he isn't!!!

I will always support the coach Butch jones or someone else, I am a VOL fan, I will give my all for Tennessee everyday!!!

Prepare for the required long-winded multi-quote response. Your cautious optimism cannot go on unchecked. :aggressive:

 

[Rooster1]

going 4-4 in the sece is always underwhelming unless you are vanderbilt or kentucky, and then it's a cause for celebration.

2017: (5-3 sec) (3-1 ooc) = 8-4

 

[BeardedVol]

I think the staff salaries show the commitment that the university has for Butch Jones moving forward. The deciding year will be 2018, and winning the east is probably the target for 2018. He may win the east this year ans secure himself even longer.

I remember back in 2014, when 2016 was the real year that CBJ could be judged because he would have three recruiting classes, and would have his system fully implemented, and the minimum expectation was winning the SECe.

Fast forward to 2017, having not met the the very expectations that CBJ himself set out for 2016, and now 2018 is suddenly the year that CBJ can finally be held to task? :thud:

In your opinion, will there ever be a time during CBJ's tenure at UT where "b-b-b-b-ut Dooley" is not a valid response to criticism of CBJ's coaching ability? Just curious.

 

[Rooster1]

Tennessee won't win the east and will go 7-5 or 8-4.

8-4...see above. Only if QB position greatly under performs will UT win less than 8.

 

[Rooster1]

For me, the equation is, anything less than an SEC East championship in 2017 is grounds for dismissal. It's way past time.

You can't be serious.

 

[volfan2024]

12-0 I said it first!

 

[BeardedVol]

2017: (5-3 sec) (3-1 ooc) = 8-4

Very much an overly optimistic outlook for the 2017 SEC record. CBJ couldn't manage to beat USCe and Vandy in 2016 with a senior-laden team, but in 2017 with a new QB, and missing 85% of the offensive and defensive production from 2016 he's going to beat an SECw team for the first time? Beat Muschamp for the first time? Get another Hail Mary win against GA? Beat Florida in the swamp? Some of that has to happen to get to 5-3, but nothing about CBJ's time at UT suggests that any of it is very likely.

Let's say some of that does come to pass, and we end up 8-4(5-3) again. We still don't win the east with 3 conference losses, and we are watching Florida or Georgia get whipped up on in the SECCG.

 

[Rooster1]

Very much an overly optimistic outlook for the 2017 SEC record. CBJ couldn't manage to beat USCe and Vandy in 2016 with a senior-laden team, but in 2017 with a new QB, and missing 85% of the offensive and defensive production from 2016 he's going to beat an SECw team for the first time? Beat Muschamp for the first time? Get another Hail Mary win against GA? Beat Florida in the swamp? Some of that has to happen to get to 5-3, but nothing about CBJ's time at UT suggests that any of it is very likely.

Let's say some of that does come to pass, and we end up 8-4(5-3) again. We still don't win the east with 3 conference losses, and we are watching Florida or Georgia get whipped up on in the SECCG.

Did you watch the NC game? Who is supposed to throw the ball for Bama? One dimensional offense means they can be beat. And Clemson showed their D is not invincible.

 

[BeardedVol]

Did you watch the NC game? Who is supposed to throw the ball for Bama? One dimensional offense means they can be beat. And Clemson showed their D is not invincible.

Don't know if I'd go as far as to say they were one-dimensional. Hurts definitely has accuracy issues outside of 15 yards but that was mitigated by being surrounded by 5—star talent. Besides, it's not like Clemson ran roughshod all over them in the championship game.

 

[hatingbamaisawayoflife]

I personally do not believe Butch will EVER make it to Atlanta unless it is to catch a flight somewhere or if we are in a preseason game there.....................

 

[mrmax86]

Beat Bana and it would wonderful season

A lot of people said that about Florida last year...

 

[johnrlansford]

I remember back in 2014, when 2016 was the real year that CBJ could be judged because he would have three recruiting classes, and would have his system fully implemented, and the minimum expectation was winning the SECe.

Fast forward to 2017, having not met the the very expectations that CBJ himself set out for 2016, and now 2018 is suddenly the year that CBJ can finally be held to task? :thud:

In your opinion, will there ever be a time during CBJ's tenure at UT where "b-b-b-b-ut Dooley" is not a valid response to criticism of CBJ's coaching ability? Just curious.

OK who said that the SECE was the measuring stick for Butch Jones, The administration? I don't remember that...That about the Booster? I don't remember that either. You can set what you think is an expectation and I can set what i think is an expectation, but neither opinion matters in the grand scheme of things, because we don't hire or fire coaches.

The coaches expectations are to win National championships every year, but that isn't realistic since only one team wins the NC.

Dooley isn't an excuse I am using it is the entire situation atound the athletic department. We are not a team that will compete for championships every year...we never have been!!! We will piece together a few good runs at championships and be in the conversation but never been the team everyone was gunning for outside of a season here and there!!!

I am simply saying that where we are now is 1000% better than where we were 5 years ago, and even if we are 8-4 next year we will be in a better spot than we were 5 years ago.

Should we not expect more? Yes we should but it does take time to get to that level. Dabo Sweeney was almost ran out of Clemson after 4 years of mediocre play if it would have been up to the fans. He just won a NC in year 7(I think). I am not saying Butch will see the same results but come on, a coaching change now would be bad for the program, and there aren't really slam dunk hires not named Gruden.

You expect us to be something that we aren't...We have been competitive in the SECE the past 2 years but didn't win, "we are who they say we are!!!"

Who is that you would ask, a solid team who will compete for our division every year and Conference every few year but not win national championships every year, like most believe we should.

History just doesn't support your expectations!!!

 

[sjt18]

Just because you ar ein high demand doesn't make you a successful hire.

No. It means that firing a winning coach does not mean you cannot get another highly thought of coach. That's all. There are no guarantees when you hire a coach. If UT could hire Saban it wouldn't guarantee success.

Interms of the program 2016 wasn't a step backwards by any means, he maintained a winning record with 9 wins. Not meeting expectations doens't equal a step backwards.

We really need to do this again? Jones' high injury rates continued unabated. Two of the most talented guys on the roster walked away from the team mid-season. Even the wins were plagued by mistakes and poor play/coaching. Lost to the two least talented teams in the SEC... one with the East on the line and the other with the Sugar Bowl on the line.

When you take a team that should have won the East, go 4-4 in the conference, and lose to Vandy and USCe.... that is a MAJOR step backwards.

Butch came to one of the worst situations that any coach could step into and has moved us forward. he has given no reason to doubt him, until we are moving backwards, and we aren't yet.

You are deluding yourself.

I think the staff salaries show the commitment that the university has for Butch Jones moving forward. The deciding year will be 2018, and winning the east is probably the target for 2018. He may win the east this year ans secure himself even longer.

I hope he turns it around, wins championships, and has the stadium name changed to Neyland-Jones Stadium... but there are TONS of reasons to doubt him.

You have to remember where were just a few short years ago to appreciate where we are now! Go Vols!

And you can't just stop with 2011. Go just a few years further back and you see Fulmer fired for better results than you are defending Jones for producing. There was a time when UT simply didn't lose to Vandy or UK.... now it seems some of you are OK with it... and it AIN'T that they've gotten much or perhaps any better.

I am a realistic fan, not sure why I even come to Volnation with some of your unrealistic expectations and demands. Butch is my coach, until he isn't!!!

No. You really aren't a realist. Jones fires an arrow and you move the target to catch it. I have not checked your post history but A LOT of folks like you assured us after year two that year 3 would be the year we saw a big move... then it became year 4... now at least some of you have dropped all pretense of expecting Jones to actually compete for the SEC.

I will always support the coach Butch jones or someone else, I am a VOL fan, I will give my all for Tennessee everyday!!!

If you will "always" support the coach then how can you claim to be a Vol fan? What about when the coach is holding the Vols back? What about when his performance isn't up to championship caliber?

 

[johnrlansford]

No. It means that firing a winning coach does not mean you cannot get another highly thought of coach. That's all. There are no guarantees when you hire a coach. If UT could hire Saban it wouldn't guarantee success.

We really need to do this again? Jones' high injury rates continued unabated. Two of the most talented guys on the roster walked away from the team mid-season. Even the wins were plagued by mistakes and poor play/coaching. Lost to the two least talented teams in the SEC... one with the East on the line and the other with the Sugar Bowl on the line.

When you take a team that should have won the East, go 4-4 in the conference, and lose to Vandy and USCe.... that is a MAJOR step backwards.

You are deluding yourself.

I hope he turns it around, wins championships, and has the stadium name changed to Neyland-Jones Stadium... but there are TONS of reasons to doubt him.

And you can't just stop with 2011. Go just a few years further back and you see Fulmer fired for better results than you are defending Jones for producing. There was a time when UT simply didn't lose to Vandy or UK.... now it seems some of you are OK with it... and it AIN'T that they've gotten much or perhaps any better.

No. You really aren't a realist. Jones fires an arrow and you move the target to catch it. I have not checked your post history but A LOT of folks like you assured us after year two that year 3 would be the year we saw a big move... then it became year 4... now at least some of you have dropped all pretense of expecting Jones to actually compete for the SEC.

If you will "always" support the coach then how can you claim to be a Vol fan? What about when the coach is holding the Vols back? What about when his performance isn't up to championship caliber?

You can say what you will but Butch walked into the worst situation anyone in the SEC has had for years!!! FACT!!!!

Butch Jones never lost more that 6 games after year 1, Fulmer lost 7 2 times in his last 4 years.

You will be disappointed Butch will be coaching here for a while(3 + years), Book it!!!

 

[griffdog14]

I think the vols tasted greatness last year and got burned. Everyone will be more mature this year and i think they'll be better prepared to win. As soon as we can start beating the snot out of lesser teams, the sooner we cant get this damn target off our backs of being a beatable team by anyone