USA Today: What to like about No. 18 Tennessee

[jakez4ut]

You've lost me on that one. When CBJ is shown the door at UT, it's not going to be because he didn't compete for the division in 13 and 14 its going to be because he wasn't competitive in the division during any season.

Well that's not true either. We "competed" for the division legitimately the last two seasons. Until we didn't. You beat ga and fl you're competing for the division. You lose it by losing to USCe and vandy, which should be inexcusable.

And that first point about 13 & 14 is exactly what I was getting at to begin with because no one expected much those 1st two years, and he will never be held accountable for those two seasons being considered "failures".

And keep in mind I don't think he's the guy either. I don't think he'll ever be more than an 8 or 9 game a year type coach.

I just don't see anything administratively that tells me we've taken this new approach competitively that says he will be fired for going 7-5 or 6-6 because that's not the standard here. And I've definitely not seen or heard anything that tells me there's this groundswell of support for taking such an approach from anyone writing the checks or calling the shots over there.

You've never even asked if I THINK he should be fired. And it doesn't matter. He'll be here in 2018.

 

[Iam4utalways]

In poker terms, we are "pot committed" to CBJ, due to the timing.

It boils down to QB play. That is the only chance of Butch getting a pass for a poor year. All other aspects of the team are expected to be on point. Even with all the coaching changes, to take a step back is not a good idea.

Most likely, get to a bowl and win, gets him another year.

CBJ has been training his whole life for 2017. This could easily be his make/break year.

I like his chances.

Figure it out Butch.

 

[jbr82]

Turnaround? He has basically gotten to the level where Fulmer was when he was RIGHTLY fired for being 2nd tier. A "turnaround" would include a championship... a Sugar Bowl... at the very bare minimum winning the East in one of the last two years.

There has been an improvement over horrible. That's not exactly a "turnaround". The bar should be higher than Jones has achieved so far.

Richt was 39-9 in the 4 years prior to UGA finally figuring out that he wasn't going to do any better regardless of how great the homegrown talent was. He was fired. He was replaced by a guy that several high profile programs including UT had pursued. Coaches have a lot more understanding than you seem to think. MOST top coaches would LOVE to walk into a situation where they could have immediate success. ANY coach UT would want wouldn't hesitate a moment to take the job if Jones finished the season 7-5 and was fired due to his consistent underperformance of the roster talent.


That's false in the extreme... an answer looking for a question on your part because you want to justify "maybe next year".

There are A LOT of scenarios that could end in Jones being fired. If he wins 8 but is blown out by Bama again, finishes 4th or worse in the East, and loses to Vandy again... He's gone... as bad as you want to set the bar so low that he can't fail.

The first paragraph is spot on imo. And majors had similar success at the end of his run. I just can't believe CBJ will Dabo.

 

[VolZen]

If he wins 8 and Bama beats us by 100 he won't be fired.

 

[BeardedVol]

Well that's not true either. We "competed" for the division legitimately the last two seasons. Until we didn't. You beat ga and fl you're competing for the division. You lose it by losing to USCe and vandy, which should be inexcusable.

And that first point about 13 & 14 is exactly what I was getting at to begin with because no one expected much those 1st two years, and he will never be held accountable for those two seasons being considered "failures".

And keep in mind I don't think he's the guy either. I don't think he'll ever be more than an 8 or 9 game a year type coach.

I just don't see anything administratively that tells me we've taken this new approach competitively that says he will be fired for going 7-5 or 6-6 because that's not the standard here. And I've definitely not seen or heard anything that tells me there's this groundswell of support for taking such an approach from anyone writing the checks or calling the shots over there.

You've never even asked if I THINK he should be fired. And it doesn't matter. He'll be here in 2018.

I can see the argument for competing in 2016, even though our chances were dead with three conference games still on the schedule. 15 however, no chance, we were DOA in the conference after the end of the Arkansas game, as no one even expected us to have a chance against Alabama even though we played them close; in hindsight, maybe the lack of pressure helped us play them as close as we did.

However 13 and 14 still count in assessing CBJ's time at Tennessee. In spite of the uphill battle that Butch faced in both season, there were still games in both seasons that he could have and should have won that he left on the field; 2013 Vanderbilt game, and 2014 Florida. His record is what it is. The winnable games that he's lost every season, are part of why despite being much better than Dooley, he's still just not getting it done.

Butch isn't going to be fired for going 7-5 or 6-6 in 2017. If his record is such, he's going to be fired for never managing to win more than 5 conference games in a 5 seasons, for not winning the division in 5 seasons, for never beating an SECw team in 5 seasons, and for having a sub .500 conference record after 5 seasons.

The last two coaches fired by Tennessee had better records than CBJ, and were coming off winning conference seasons prior to the season where they were fired. Neither Majors nor Fulmer were retained, and neither will Butch be if he goes 3-5 or 2-6 in 2017.

 

[jakez4ut]

I can see the argument for competing in 2016, even though our chances were dead with three conference games still on the schedule. 15 however, no chance, we were DOA in the conference after the end of the Arkansas game, as no one even expected us to have a chance against Alabama even though we played them close; in hindsight, maybe the lack of pressure helped us play them as close as we did.

However 13 and 14 still count in assessing CBJ's time at Tennessee. In spite of the uphill battle that Butch faced in both season, there were still games in both seasons that he could have and should have won that he left on the field; 2013 Vanderbilt game, and 2014 Florida. His record is what it is. The winnable games that he's lost every season, are part of why despite being much better than Dooley, he's still just not getting it done.

Butch isn't going to be fired for going 7-5 or 6-6 in 2017. If his record is such, he's going to be fired for never managing to win more than 5 conference games in a 5 seasons, for not winning the division in 5 seasons, for never beating an SECw team in 5 seasons, and for having a sub .500 conference record after 5 seasons.

The last two coaches fired by Tennessee had better records than CBJ, and were coming off winning conference seasons prior to the season where they were fired. Neither Majors nor Fulmer were retained, and neither will Butch be if he goes 3-5 or 2-6 in 2017.

based on what? who's set this standard? all this is, is what you think should happen.

until i see or hear something from anyone that matters on the hill, regarding this new "competitive standard" we're adopting, i'll hedge my bet and say we do what we typically do...go with the status quo, until we can't anymore.

 

[johnrlansford]

We could go to a bowl with a record of 6-6 (2-6 SEC). Getting to a bowl would not save CBJ if he ended the season with that record.

disagree...It is considered a rebuilding year. You may be quick to fire Butch but i don't think the administration will be!!!

 

[jbr82]

disagree...It is considered a rebuilding year. You may be quick to fire Butch but i don't think the administration will be!!!

Going into yr 5. When will TN be reloading? Quality of recruits and development required

 

[jakez4ut]

Going into yr 5. When will TN be reloading? Quality of recruits and development required

agreed. which is why we had the overhaul on the staff.

and it will be interesting to see how this 18 cycle goes. lots of quality in state talent. he should be able to put together a very solid class if he can get a good majority of those kids to stay home.

all things that will be considerations, positively or negatively, going forward.

 

[jakez4ut]

disagree...It is considered a rebuilding year. You may be quick to fire Butch but i don't think the administration will be!!!

a lot of coaches don't get the opportunity to rebuild a rebuild. he's getting a 2nd chance that some don't get.

 

[JohnnyBall]

Butch will need at least 8 wins to keep his job imo. It's year 5 and with his recruiting starting to slip patience is rightfully thin. 8 wins will earn him one more season to make it to Atlanta.

Keep kicking that championship game down the road, thatll make em work harder next year

 

[Vol737]

Butch will need at least 8 wins to keep his job imo. It's year 5 and with his recruiting starting to slip patience is rightfully thin. 8 wins will earn him one more season to make it to Atlanta.

Even at 7-5 I don't think he's going anywhere. He and his agent will point to two 9 win seasons the past two years, a huge drop off in talent on defense, having two unproven QBs and figure that will be good enough to keep his job. I don't think the Admin will have the stomach to go through a buyout at 7-5. I do hold out the possibility we might be pleasantly surprised this year.

 

[johnrlansford]

I doubt he would go anywhere after this season unless he had a losing record and even then with the cost of his buyout idk that he wouldn't still be given another year.

I do however think his fate will all be determined on this coming season wether its administered after the season or after next season.

No high level coach has touched us with a 10ft pole in nearly 10yrs anyway lol

I hope he succeeds tho

Absolutely Agree!!!

 

[johnrlansford]

Turnaround? He has basically gotten to the level where Fulmer was when he was RIGHTLY fired for being 2nd tier. A "turnaround" would include a championship... a Sugar Bowl... at the very bare minimum winning the East in one of the last two years.

There has been an improvement over horrible. That's not exactly a "turnaround". The bar should be higher than Jones has achieved so far.

Richt was 39-9 in the 4 years prior to UGA finally figuring out that he wasn't going to do any better regardless of how great the homegrown talent was. He was fired. He was replaced by a guy that several high profile programs including UT had pursued. Coaches have a lot more understanding than you seem to think. MOST top coaches would LOVE to walk into a situation where they could have immediate success. ANY coach UT would want wouldn't hesitate a moment to take the job if Jones finished the season 7-5 and was fired due to his consistent underperformance of the roster talent.


That's false in the extreme... an answer looking for a question on your part because you want to justify "maybe next year".

There are A LOT of scenarios that could end in Jones being fired. If he wins 8 but is blown out by Bama again, finishes 4th or worse in the East, and loses to Vandy again... He's gone... as bad as you want to set the bar so low that he can't fail.

Fulmer had to 5 win seasons in his last 4 years, Butch has well surpassed that!!! Even with the 9 and 10 win season between them, Butch's 4 year average is higher in that period for Fulmer.

Butch's seat with the administration isn't as hot as many fans would liek it to be...just a fact!!!

 

[Brave Volunteer]

Butch will need at least 8 wins to keep his job imo. It's year 5 and with his recruiting starting to slip patience is rightfully thin. 8 wins will earn him one more season to make it to Atlanta.

It's going to be a tall order for sure. He'll basically be expected to over achieve with less talent, after coming off a year where we underachieved with better, more proven talent. I'm not sure if CBJ has what it takes to get the job done, but the good news is he has upgraded his assistants to a point where it's probably the best staff he's had since he's been here. Also, Tennessee's schedule is not quite as tough this year as it has been over the last few years. So hopefully those factors along with some unproven players stepping up this year will result in a better than expected season.

 

[johnrlansford]

a lot of coaches don't get the opportunity to rebuild a rebuild. he's getting a 2nd chance that some don't get.

I agree but i also know if he makes a Bowl we are almost 80% guaranteed to have Butch in 2018. As bad a some don't want to see the writing on the wall!!!

 

[johnrlansford]

It's going to be a tall order for sure. He'll basically be expected to over achieve with less talent, after coming off a year where we underachieved with better, more proven talent. I'm not sure if CBJ has what it takes to get the job done, but the good news is he has upgraded his assistants to a point where it's probably the best staff he's had since he's been here. Also, Tennessee's schedule is not quite as tough this year as it has been over the last few years. So hopefully those factors along with some unproven players stepping up this year will result in a better than expected season.

GT amd LSU are not making our schedule easier...Atleast we don't play all of the best teams in 4 straight weeks again.

 

[cd12]

Besides record, one must also factor in just how bad the new AD wants "his guy". He could make an argument from 8-4 or less.

 

[Brave Volunteer]

Besides record, one must also factor in just how bad the new AD wants "his guy". He could make an argument from 8-4 or less.

That's a very good point. If Curry come out and says "Coach Jones has my full support" then Butch should worry.

 

[jakez4ut]

Besides record, one must also factor in just how bad the new AD wants "his guy". He could make an argument from 8-4 or less.

don't disagree. but as well all know, "his guy", regardless of how much currie wants it, will have to align with how much Haslam's checkbook wants it.

 

[johnrlansford]

don't disagree. but as well all know, "his guy", regardless of how much currie wants it, will have to align with how much Haslam's checkbook wants it.

I don't see a 10 million dollar buyout being made either way...and all of the asst coaches buyouts. It is highly unlikely that they make a change after 2017. If you do make a change will yo uput the next coach on a budget and a low budget for asst coaches as well...I do not see a change being made unless there is a total meltdown and a losing record, UNless Gruden publically says he will take the job and then Butch is gone...Barring that we have Butch until 2018 minimum!!!

 

[Iam4utalways]

I don't see a 10 million dollar buyout being made either way...and all of the asst coaches buyouts. It is highly unlikely that they make a change after 2017. If you do make a change will yo uput the next coach on a budget and a low budget for asst coaches as well...I do not see a change being made unless there is a total meltdown and a losing record, UNless Gruden publically says he will take the job and then Butch is gone...Barring that we have Butch until 2018 minimum!!!

I thought the buyout was down to 8 mil. It's a 20 mil commitment for a new staff with a new plan with new players with a new timetable.

It would be better for Butch and his crew to figure it out.

 

[jakez4ut]

I don't see a 10 million dollar buyout being made either way...and all of the asst coaches buyouts. It is highly unlikely that they make a change after 2017. If you do make a change will yo uput the next coach on a budget and a low budget for asst coaches as well...I do not see a change being made unless there is a total meltdown and a losing record, UNless Gruden publically says he will take the job and then Butch is gone...Barring that we have Butch until 2018 minimum!!!

if haslam is willing to pay, we'd all be surprised at how fast things could change.

 

[jakez4ut]

I thought the buyout was down to 8 mil. It's a 20 mil commitment for a new staff with a new plan with new players with a new timetable.

It would be better for Butch and his crew to figure it out.

:thumbsup:

 

[johnrlansford]

if haslam is willing to pay, we'd all be surprised at how fast things could change.

Just as long as they don't hold any money back with the next hire and asst coaches if they decide to move on from Butch.

I am hoping it gets turned around this year and we don't have to worry about this issue!!!