J.P. Prince

#51
#51
lidderer said:
These guys aren't robots, and we can't expect them all to respond to good plays the way we THINK they should. It just doesn't work that way. Maybe it's poor sportsmanship, but I even question that, and wonder how much I really care about it anyhow.

If a guy feels a surge of energy coarse through him after a one-handed follow-up dunk, he'll just naturally express that energy with fist pumps or a frenzied jump. Micromanaging to the point where we're saying "if JP can just stop acting excited after he gets in position for the airball, rebounds it back up, makes the bucket, and draws the foul...then I think he'll improve," is probably being too nitpicky.
Click to expand...

Its not nitpicky to ask him not to salute and throw up signs to the crowd after he scores. I would sit his ass down immediately.

Its ok to show emotion...yell, celebrate with your team, etc....But to taunt the crowd and carry on is bad sportsmanship...maybe im just old school.
 
#52
#52
He's obviously more comfortable expressing himself - and he plays much, much better when he feels free to do so. Why try to change that?
 
#53
#53
TennNC said:
He's obviously more comfortable expressing himself - and he plays much, much better when he feels free to do so. Why try to change that?
Click to expand...

I dont see the correlation between throwing up signs and saluting and playing good basketball.

He has done it all year....when we have been winning/losing when he is playing bad/good....it hasn't mattered.
 
Last edited:
#54
#54
OrangeWilly said:
...maybe im just old school.
Click to expand...

This might have something to do with it. I'm all for persona in bball, and will admit to almost preferring those glimpses of joy(no matter how expressed) over some streamlined, uniform behaviour.

But it's entirely a matter of preference, and I'm not sure it really has any meaning when evaluating a player as a player.
 
#55
#55
lidderer said:
This might have something to do with it. I'm all for persona in bball, and will admit to almost preferring those glimpses of joy(no matter how expressed) over some streamlined, uniform behaviour.

But it's entirely a matter of preference, and I'm not sure it really has any meaning when evaluating a player as a player.
Click to expand...

perhaps not.
 
#56
#56
OrangeWilly said:
I dont see the correlation between throwing up signs and saluting and playing good basketball.

He has done it all year....when we have been winning/losing....it hasn't mattered.
Click to expand...

I think he's just saying that with a player like Prince you have to let him be who he is, and yes, he has been that way all year long, and by and large he has played well all year long, in spite of what people here will tell you.
 
#57
#57
OrangeWilly said:
I dont see the correlation between throwing up signs and saluting and playing good basketball.

He has done it all year....when we have been winning/losing....it hasn't mattered.
Click to expand...

Really? Has JP saluted when we're down 15 with 2 min to play?

Do you see the correlation btwn being comfortable and playing well? JP is more comfortable when he's less regulated. If he got yanked for screaming after he threw one down, he'd be worried about how he might react after the next dunk than thinking about getting another dunk. Benching him in that instance actually would de-motivate him.

Outside of doing something that hurts his team, how he expresses himself shouldn't be our concern. And if him expressing himself just makes others on the team uncomfortable, then we should just cut him from the team, b/c that's who he is.
 
#58
#58
TennNC said:
Really? Has JP saluted when we're down 15 with 2 min to play?

Do you see the correlation btwn being comfortable and playing well? JP is more comfortable when he's less regulated. If he got yanked for screaming after he threw one down, he'd be worried about how he might react after the next dunk than thinking about getting another dunk. Benching him in that instance actually would de-motivate him.

Outside of doing something that hurts his team, how he expresses himself shouldn't be our concern. And if him expressing himself just makes others on the team uncomfortable, then we should just cut him from the team, b/c that's who he is.
Click to expand...
well done for the psychology class lesson, but not so much for coaching 101.
 
#59
#59
lidderer said:
This might have something to do with it. I'm all for persona in bball, and will admit to almost preferring those glimpses of joy(no matter how expressed) over some streamlined, uniform behaviour.

But it's entirely a matter of preference, and I'm not sure it really has any meaning when evaluating a player as a player.
Click to expand...

that's my inclination too.

I LOVE when Danny Green used to dance before the tipoff - it made it fun (what a concept).

That said, I'm not going to expect a Bob Knight-coached team to do the same, b/c that's not who he is or who his players are.
 
#60
#60
TennNC said:
that's my inclination too.

I LOVE when Danny Green used to dance before the tipoff - it made it fun (what a concept).

That said, I'm not going to expect a Bob Knight-coached team to do the same, b/c that's not who he is or who his players are.
Click to expand...
before a ballgame is a different animal. During a game, players win more when doing what the coach asks and coaches that demand focus win more than those who don't.
 
#61
#61
BigPapaVol said:
well done for the psychology class lesson, but not so much for coaching 101.
Click to expand...

Just b/c it doesn't fit your particular old school, ultra-intense, Coach K-Bob Knight style doesn't mean it's right for everyone.

I seem to recall a few "expressive" teams steamrolling their way through the NCAA tourney.
 
#62
#62
lidderer said:
I think he's just saying that with a player like Prince you have to let him be who he is, and yes, he has been that way all year long, and by and large he has played well all year long, in spite of what people here will tell you.
Click to expand...

Correctamundo.
 
#63
#63
TennNC said:
Really? Has JP saluted when we're down 15 with 2 min to play?

Do you see the correlation btwn being comfortable and playing well? JP is more comfortable when he's less regulated. If he got yanked for screaming after he threw one down, he'd be worried about how he might react after the next dunk than thinking about getting another dunk. Benching him in that instance actually would de-motivate him.

Outside of doing something that hurts his team, how he expresses himself shouldn't be our concern. And if him expressing himself just makes others on the team uncomfortable, then we should just cut him from the team, b/c that's who he is.
Click to expand...

That is called letting the inmates run the asylum. I personally think teaching a person/player discipline will do nothing but make them a better person/player.
 
#64
#64
TennNC said:
Just b/c it doesn't fit your particular old school, ultra-intense, Coach K-Bob Knight style doesn't mean it's right for everyone.

I seem to recall a few "expressive" teams steamrolling their way through the NCAA tourney.
Click to expand...
which ones?

Expressive is one thing, hotdogging is altogether different. Shaq is expressive, Marbury is a hotdog.
 
#65
#65
BigPapaVol said:
before a ballgame is a different animal. During a game, players win more when doing what the coach asks and coaches that demand focus win more than those who don't.
Click to expand...

so you can't express yourself AND do what the coaches ask? Hell, the best college player in the country expresses himself during the game.
 
#67
#67
TennNC said:
so you can't express yourself AND do what the coaches ask? Hell, the best college player in the country expresses himself during the game.
Click to expand...
again, expressive and hotdogging are two wildly different things. Expressive is fine, to some degree.
 
#68
#68
BigPapaVol said:
which ones?

Expressive is one thing, hotdogging is altogether different. Shaq is expressive, Marbury is a hotdog.
Click to expand...

UNLV, Florida, UNC, Kentucky, Phi Slamma Jamma.

Why don't the refs T him up if he's hotdogging? Wouldn't that qualify as unsportsmanlike? It appears that he's not stepping over the line when he yells or salutes after a dunk, and as long as it's not hurting the team, why change it? Answer me that.
 
#69
#69
BigPapaVol said:
which coaches have won with that philosophy?
Click to expand...

With the philosophy of treating each individual player as a unique human being and not expecting them to all behave and be motivated in the exact same manner?

Probably every successful one.
 
#70
#70
TennNC said:
UNLV, Florida, UNC, Kentucky, Phi Slamma Jamma.

Why don't the refs T him up if he's hotdogging? Wouldn't that qualify as unsportsmanlike? It appears that he's not stepping over the line when he yells or salutes after a dunk, and as long as it's not hurting the team, why change it? Answer me that.
Click to expand...
it is hurting the team that he doesn't get back on D and doesn't focus in general. It hurts in that an attitude of that nature is pervasive.

Of those teams you listed, one might have been expressive and it cost them an extra title. UF, UNC, KY and UH weren't at all. You'll throw Noah out there from UF, but he did it at break time, not with the clock running.
 
#71
#71
Has the Salute hurt the team? Has yelling after a dunk hurt the team?

Ever? Has it ever hurt the team?

Let's focus our frustration about Prince for not moving his feet or tugging at a guy's shorts or going for the cheap steal instead of playing Defense.

But criticizing him for saluting or yelling after a great play is fruitless.
 
#72
#72
BigPapaVol said:
it is hurting the team that he doesn't get back on D and doesn't focus in general. It hurts in that an attitude of that nature is pervasive.

Of those teams you listed, one might have been expressive and it cost them an extra title. UF, UNC, KY and UH weren't at all. You'll throw Noah out there from UF, but he did it at break time, not with the clock running.
Click to expand...

ditto.
 
#73
#73
BigPapaVol said:
it is hurting the team that he doesn't get back on D and doesn't focus in general. It hurts in that an attitude of that nature is pervasive.
Click to expand...

Has Prince saluting EVER hurt the team? Has that specific act resulted in a basket for the other team?

Show me some tape to refute it, but as I see it, he actually does get back on defense. It's his intensity when he's in the stance that is lacking, and IMO, has nothing at all to do with how excited he gets to make a great play on the other end.
 
#74
#74
TennNC said:
With the philosophy of treating each individual player as a unique human being and not expecting them to all behave and be motivated in the exact same manner?

Probably every successful one.
Click to expand...
the unique human being drivel is about motivation. The team concept is about winning. Players might be motivated differently, but coaches need predictability out of on court behavior, which is why they conform players to one. Prince isn't and that's why we have Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

Every successful one would have let Bill Walton wear his hair down to his belt, but that didn't really work out.
 
#75
#75
BigPapaVol said:
Of those teams you listed, one might have been expressive and it cost them an extra title. UF, UNC, KY and UH weren't at all. You'll throw Noah out there from UF, but he did it at break time, not with the clock running.
Click to expand...

UNLV lost another title b/c they underestimated Duke and specifically K's ability to put together a magnificent game plan. Not b/c they were expressive.

You can't change a tiger's stripes. Put the reigns on LJ, Anthony, Hunt, etc., and they wouldn't play to their potential.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top