$100 A Barrel Oil is on the Way

#52
#52
If Brazil can use FLEX cars for over 20 years, use sugarcane ethanol weirdness for just as long, why in the hell can't we figure something out/
 
#53
#53
VolinArizona said:
If Brazil can use FLEX cars for over 20 years, use sugarcane ethanol weirdness for just as long, why in the hell can't we figure something out/
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VIA, I think its because someone (Gov,Oil Comp,OPEC and so on) doesn't want us to, Some folks are getting mega rich off of USA and China alone. JMO.:dunno:
 
#55
#55
volinbham said:
We don't grow much sugar cane?
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I think that it is a combination of vested interests and the fact that we don't grow much sugar cane. The energy balance doesn't break down well for corn ethanol, so it hasn't just blasted oil out of the water. If massive amounts of sugarcane were cheaply grown here, like Brazil, then there is a much greater chance that we would actually have a different automotive fuel system....but it is hard to say which lobby would be stronger...sugar cane farmers or oil companies.
 
#56
#56
I'm not saying we have to use sugarcane. However, Brazil has been using sugarcane for decades. Thus, what I'm saying, is that given the decades of research and our own resources domestically - shouldn't we have something better and cheaper than corn?
 
#57
#57
VolinArizona said:
I'm not saying we have to use sugarcane. However, Brazil has been using sugarcane for decades. Thus, what I'm saying, is that given the decades of research and our own resources domestically - shouldn't we have something better and cheaper than corn?
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I think so. And, there is no doubt that there are a lot of better suggestions out there - they just haven't been funded even remotely as highly as corn and oil prices have only recently gotten to a place where private companies are getting interested (save a brief spell of ramped up investment in the late 70s early 80s).

To be fair, we don't have something that works well and currently grows like weeds, which the Brazilians have in sugar cane. Regardless, the corn and oil lobbies have pretty much made this a two-sided debate. But, I think that we'll see other cellulose-derived ethanol options coming onto the map in the near future....if Congress doesn't screw it up - but, that's a big if. We may have to see it come from the private sector.

Also, just as another disclaimer, corn ethanol can work in special, localized situations where demand/supply is uniquely suited for that use. The problem is that there is no way an effective nation-wide program can be built on the back of corn.
 
#58
#58
VolinArizona said:
I'm not saying we have to use sugarcane. However, Brazil has been using sugarcane for decades. Thus, what I'm saying, is that given the decades of research and our own resources domestically - shouldn't we have something better and cheaper than corn?
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ethanol from corn is a farm subsidy plain and simple. a viable alternative to oil it ain't. And don't even get me started about how this ethanol bs has affected inflation. This might be the worst idea for alternative energy in the history of the US.
 
#59
#59
oklavol said:
i've been recommended to buy oil futures in the spring before the peak oil season as a cant lose proposition. whats the minimum amount for a position you invest though? 10k?
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there is no such thing as a can't lose situation in investing PARTICURALLY in the commodities. market. You can easly invest 10K and end up losing 100K in commodities. It's not like a stock where you have limited downside. there are guys that are paid millions a year that have lost billions playing oil futures. current oil futures are projecting a drop in the oil price in the next 3 months btw.
 
#60
#60
droski said:
there is no such thing as a can't lose situation in investing PARTICURALLY in the commodities. market. You can easly invest 10K and end up losing 100K in commodities. It's not like a stock where you have limited downside. there are guys that are paid millions a year that have lost billions playing oil futures. current oil futures are projecting a drop in the oil price in the next 3 months btw.
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Droski, I agree. Futures are very very riskey. As far as the projecting futures, ive been hearing that crap for a while, Oil is projecting to drop, the cosumer is going to stop spending blah blah blah. Guess what, that was when oil was at $45 :whistling:. Theres folks making to much money for it to drop, they who ever they are. wont let it drop I think because to much $$$$. But you are right the futures show a downtick in 3 months, Im just not buying it...Oh and god forbid something happens in the Mid East, which I think is on its way.
 
#62
#62
TennTradition said:
I think so. And, there is no doubt that there are a lot of better suggestions out there - they just haven't been funded even remotely as highly as corn and oil prices have only recently gotten to a place where private companies are getting interested (save a brief spell of ramped up investment in the late 70s early 80s).

To be fair, we don't have something that works well and currently grows like weeds, which the Brazilians have in sugar cane. Regardless, the corn and oil lobbies have pretty much made this a two-sided debate. But, I think that we'll see other cellulose-derived ethanol options coming onto the map in the near future....if Congress doesn't screw it up - but, that's a big if. We may have to see it come from the private sector.

Also, just as another disclaimer, corn ethanol can work in special, localized situations where demand/supply is uniquely suited for that use. The problem is that there is no way an effective nation-wide program can be built on the back of corn.
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Well, we used to. I believe the plant was referred to as hemp. :mf_surrender:


Also, only partially screwing around here, but I honesty believe there is an underlying cause to this constant increase in gas. It's to wipe out the middle-class and force us into a cashless society. ZOMG! :angel:

Really, though, take the Eco Spirit (104 MPG, reasonable sticker price, very low in emissions) as an example and tell me there isn't something wrong there. I blame Jesus and the bigoted "elite" corporations.
 
#65
#65
If only these lowbrow elitists would tackle and barge into the developmental phase in making radiant energy, super-efficient electrolysis, permanent magnets, or cold fusion a legitimate form of energy for the masses... Only then could we put a dent in oil prices.
 
#66
#66
Volunteer_Kirby said:
If only these lowbrow elitists would tackle and barge into the developmental phase in making radiant energy, super-efficient electrolysis, permanent magnets, or cold fusion a legitimate form of energy for the masses... Only then could we put a dent in oil prices.
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where do you get this stuff, the movies?

I guarantee you the political risk accounts for well over 25% of the current price of fuel.
 
#69
#69
To the contrary.. In Colorado Springs, where he stayed from May 1899 until 1900, Tesla made what he regarded as his most important discovery-- terrestrial stationary waves. By this discovery he proved that the Earth could be used as a conductor and would be as responsive as a tuning fork to electrical vibrations of a certain frequency. He also lighted 200 lamps without wires from a distance of 25 miles( 40 kilometers) and created man-made lightning. At one time he was certain he had received signals from another planet in his Colorado laboratory, a claim that was met with disbelief in some scientific journals.
 
#73
#73
The speculators are driving up this price. all you need is an unexpected increase in supply and this thing is going to tank.
 
#74
#74
TennTradition said:
I think that if the US dropped their tariff on Brazilian sugarcane-derived ethanol, then it would blow corn-derived ethanol out of the water. However, we could probably do better with our own switch grass ... or algae perhaps (happy Okla??...at least I think it was you who always promotes algae).
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When are you and your MIT buddies going to come to Ariz and southern California, pipe ocean water into millions of acres of algae ponds in the desert to make biodiesel and become billionaires?

On a sidebar, the U.S. has enough oil shale in Utah and Colorado to provide all the energy needs of this country for the next 200 years. Oil is approaching 100/barrel and its economically feasible at 50/barrell.

So instead of investing in that, Bush invests trillions in Iraq. Bush has misspent the countries resources IMO.
 
#75
#75
droski said:
The speculators are driving up this price. all you need is an unexpected increase in supply and this thing is going to tank.
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Thats true. There are alot of speculators in this market right now. OPEC Secretary General Abdalla el-Bardi told the Wall Street Journal Asia the cartel is not in discussions to boost production by 500,000 barrels.El-Bardi's comments counters rumors that Saudi Arabia is pushing for a production increase. In Sept.,OPEC bowed to Saudi pressure and announced a production increase of 500,000 barrels a day,effective Nov.1. That shows a little drama in the cartel to me. hrmm....:question:
 
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