13' PF Johnathan Williams III

[johnnybravo]

You don't watch much BB do you? Some players are just glue guys and do all the little things and dirty work to make the team better. I asked Terry Tippett when Bradshaw committed what made him a college prospect and he said and I quote "The team he plays for wins".

I'm willing to bet that I've watched more games that Dane has played in than you have.

Dane's senior year TN went 24-11. He was the ONLY departing senior. The next year we replaced him with a "good" basketball player in Tyler Smith. That team went 31-5. I'd much rather have a good basketball player than a undersized, slow player that can't shoot that some call a glue guy.

 

[Vols4us]

Trashing Dane is trashy. To use one season with Tyler on a very talented team as evidence is also ludicrous. Dane was the right guy for the time, he made everyone around him better and didn't hog the ball or the spotlight. He helped Pearl's run to happen. He was Pearl's coach on the floor. Maybe if you could have kept Tyler away from the guns and weed you could rightly claim Tyler was more important and have at least one valid reason.

 

[johnnybravo]

Trashing Dane is trashy. To use one season with Tyler on a very talented team as evidence is also ludicrous. Dane was the right guy for the time, he made everyone around him better and didn't hog the ball or the spotlight. He helped Pearl's run to happen. He was Pearl's coach on the floor. Maybe if you could have kept Tyler away from the guns and weed you could rightly claim Tyler was more important and have at least one valid reason.

It was the exact same team except Dane was replaced by Tyler Smith.

24-11 with Dane
31-5 with Tyler

Saying Dane was slow, can't jump, can't shoot is not trashing Dane. I said nothing that wasn't the truth.

Carreer ft% and 3pt% horrible.

What kind of "coach on the floor" do you need with CJ, Lofton, J. Smith and Chism?

Once the "coach on the floor" graduated, the team won 7 more games the next year. Pearl probably would have never been here if Buzz didn't screw up and give Dane a scholly instead of Lee Humphrey. I remember everyone b1tching at the time that we have Dane while Lee was lighting it up and winning National Championships at Florida.

Just because Tyler played with guns didn't make him a bad basketball player. We were ranked #1 in the country when he was on the team.

 

[cncchris33]

Yeah he had a steal against FL and a put back against OK St. Other than that he was a hard working slow white boy playing the 4 at 6'3" and couldn't shoot a ball in the ocean. Kinda sounds familiar. Hell, Pearl Jr. played better D and also knew his offense limitation, so he didn't turn the ball over jacking up brick 3s all the time. Everybody was glad that he was replaced by Tyler Smith the next year.

Bradshaws carreer:

27% 3 pt percentage
57% ft shooter
3.45 reb/game
4.75 pts/game

Yeah, I was glad to see him graduate and replaced by T. Smith the next year.

To be fair, Bradshaw was a much different/better player his final two seasons (under Pearl). He understood his offensive limitations and maximized his ability. Injuries also played a role in his limitations. I think you are grossly downplaying his leadership qualities and their effect on his teams. He played out of position and was effective overall as a 6-4 kid playing the 4 spot. This team could use a Dane Bradshaw from a leadership standpoint.

 

[cncchris33]

It was the exact same team except Dane was replaced by Tyler Smith.

24-11 with Dane
31-5 with Tyler

Saying Dane was slow, can't jump, can't shoot is not trashing Dane. I said nothing that wasn't the truth.

Carreer ft% and 3pt% horrible.

What kind of "coach on the floor" do you need with CJ, Lofton, J. Smith and Chism?

Once the "coach on the floor" graduated, the team won 7 more games the next year. Pearl probably would have never been here if Buzz didn't screw up and give Dane a scholly instead of Lee Humphrey. I remember everyone b1tching at the time that we have Dane while Lee was lighting it up and winning National Championships at Florida.

Just because Tyler played with guns didn't make him a bad basketball player. We were ranked #1 in the country when he was on the team.

You are very misguided in your remembrance of the Lee Humphrey saga. Dane Bradshaw was recruited by Peterson to play PG. Lee Humphrey was a SG. Dane Bradshaw didn't take a scholarship opportunity from Lee Humphrey. Scooter McFadgon transferred in and took the available scholarship that could have been used on Humphrey. Bradshaw was committed long before Lee Humphrey was ever on the radar.

 

[johnnybravo]

You are very misguided in your remembrance of the Lee Humphrey saga. Dane Bradshaw was recruited by Peterson to play PG. Lee Humphrey was a SG. Dane Bradshaw didn't take a scholarship opportunity from Lee Humphrey. Scooter McFadgon transferred in and took the available scholarship that could have been used on Humphrey. Bradshaw was committed long before Lee Humphrey was ever on the radar.

Yeah, Dane openly down played that he didn't take Lee's scholly with all of Lee's success and Scooter did. Reality, Lee grew up a TN fan and wanted to come here. Buzz went after the Memphis connection to open the Memphis pipeline like all TN coaches do with Dane and Scooter. Let's see, we have CJ Watson as a Sophmore and take 2 pgs in the class in Dane and Jordan Howell. Dane was taken because he was from Memphis, not because we needed his point guard skills. Point is that if Buzz takes Lee instead of Dane he probably wouldn't have been fired. Taking Scooter was a no brainer. CUSA all freshman team at Memphis. With Jamont Gordan and Tyler Smith coming in along with Major Wingate, Lofton, Cj, Lee Humphries, J. Smith would have been a deep tourney team even if coached by Buzz.

Looking back now, Buzz's biggest coaching mistake was taking Dane instead of Lee.

 

[bamacheats]

i wanna give mcbee some credit and say he will atleast have two 3 pointers in the ole miss game

Warm ups don't count.

 

[Shaun1985]

what happend here? I thought JWll already decided? I click here and see Dane Bradshaw talk haha.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[bleedingTNorange]

what happend here? I thought JWll already decided? I click here and see Dane Bradshaw talk haha.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

It appears frank Haith may be out before too long at Mizzou, so just talk about whether we'd make contact if he asks out of his LOI.

 

[cncchris33]

Yeah, Dane openly down played that he didn't take Lee's scholly with all of Lee's success and Scooter did. Reality, Lee grew up a TN fan and wanted to come here. Buzz went after the Memphis connection to open the Memphis pipeline like all TN coaches do with Dane and Scooter. Let's see, we have CJ Watson as a Sophmore and take 2 pgs in the class in Dane and Jordan Howell. Dane was taken because he was from Memphis, not because we needed his point guard skills. Point is that if Buzz takes Lee instead of Dane he probably wouldn't have been fired. Taking Scooter was a no brainer. CUSA all freshman team at Memphis. With Jamont Gordan and Tyler Smith coming in along with Major Wingate, Lofton, Cj, Lee Humphries, J. Smith would have been a deep tourney team even if coached by Buzz.

Looking back now, Buzz's biggest coaching mistake was taking Dane instead of Lee.

Look, restating your opinion in length and including a bunch of other names irrelevant to the actual point doesn't make it any more right, or any less wrong.

Bradshaw committed to Tennessee in January of 2002, a full 6 months before Humphrey committed to Florida. CJ Watson and Thaddeus Holden were the only two PGs on the roster at the time, with Holden being a senior. Jordan Howell didn't enter the equation until May of 2003 when Harrick was fired at UGA, 14 months after Bradshaw committed to Tennessee, and 10 months after Humphrey committed to Florida. Tennessee had no clue at the time of the alleged Humphrey/Bradshaw argument that Howell would even become available, so he is irrelevant to the story.

Hindsight is 20/20, and people like yourself, who didn't like Bradshaw, will inevitably fight tooth and nail to the grave that he "took Lee Humphrey's scholarship." It's just not as simple as that. Bradshaw committed so early in the process, and long before most anyone outside of Blount County knew who Lee Humphrey was. Were Memphis connections a motivation in landing Dane? Sure, but it's not like he was considered chopped liver either. Top 150 player who had started at PG for a couole state championship winning teams is nothing to turn your back on. And if you remember, Peterson took the first to commit between him and Dez Whittingham (?) from Texas. So, if it hadn't been Dane, it likely would have been Whittingham.

And to say that Lee Humphrey would have likely saved Buzz Peterson's job is both pure speculation, and completely unfounded. If CJ Watson, Chris Lofton, and JuJuan Smith couldn't save it, an average role player with half the shot Lofton had wasn't likely to either. On that same subject, where does Humphrey fit in on that team? Are you going to start him over Lofton at SG, or over Smith at SF?

We can agree to disagree about the Bradshaw/Humphrey scholarship debate.

 

[johnnybravo]

Look, restating your opinion in length and including a bunch of other names irrelevant to the actual point doesn't make it any more right, or any less wrong.

Bradshaw committed to Tennessee in January of 2002, a full 6 months before Humphrey committed to Florida. CJ Watson and Thaddeus Holden were the only two PGs on the roster at the time, with Holden being a senior. Jordan Howell didn't enter the equation until May of 2003 when Harrick was fired at UGA, 14 months after Bradshaw committed to Tennessee, and 10 months after Humphrey committed to Florida. Tennessee had no clue at the time of the alleged Humphrey/Bradshaw argument that Howell would even become available, so he is irrelevant to the story.

Hindsight is 20/20, and people like yourself, who didn't like Bradshaw, will inevitably fight tooth and nail to the grave that he "took Lee Humphrey's scholarship." It's just not as simple as that. Bradshaw committed so early in the process, and long before most anyone outside of Blount County knew who Lee Humphrey was. Were Memphis connections a motivation in landing Dane? Sure, but it's not like he was considered chopped liver either. Top 150 player who had started at PG for a couole state championship winning teams is nothing to turn your back on. And if you remember, Peterson took the first to commit between him and Dez Whittingham (?) from Texas. So, if it hadn't been Dane, it likely would have been Whittingham.

And to say that Lee Humphrey would have likely saved Buzz Peterson's job is both pure speculation, and completely unfounded. If CJ Watson, Chris Lofton, and JuJuan Smith couldn't save it, an average role player with half the shot Lofton had wasn't likely to either. On that same subject, where does Humphrey fit in on that team? Are you going to start him over Lofton at SG, or over Smith at SF?

We can agree to disagree about the Bradshaw/Humphrey scholarship debate.

Of course saying that adding Lee is speculation. Because it didn't happen. But looking at his carreer vs. Dane's, it's easy to see which was the better basketball player of the 2. And after both's career is over, which would have been more valuable to the team. What stat would you like to see to prove that? It doesn't matter when Dane / Lee / Howell committed. It was all the same year. Hell Landry has been committed for over a year now and it's not easy to see that it's a mistake to take him, but we will see him on the sidelines next year wearing orange. Even though he is committed to TN early, EVERYONE knows that there are better options available. Even the coaches know it because they are actively looking for another backup pg for next years class when a scholly is not even available.

My point is that sure, Dane was a hard working kid that played hard, but what was he good at? Shooting - horrible. Defense - at the 4 he was abused. Passing - he was a good passer. Ball handling - good ball handler but not needed at the 4. Made the team better by being a glue guy - The team was MUCH better (night and day difference) when replace by Tyler Smith.

Lee would have found a spot on the team. Hell JuJuan didn't even start until his Junior year.

 

[wtorange]

Of course saying that adding Lee is speculation. Because it didn't happen. But looking at his carreer vs. Dane's, it's easy to see which was the better basketball player of the 2. And after both's career is over, which would have been more valuable to the team. What stat would you like to see to prove that? It doesn't matter when Dane / Lee / Howell committed. It was all the same year. Hell Landry has been committed for over a year now and it's not easy to see that it's a mistake to take him, but we will see him on the sidelines next year wearing orange. Even though he is committed to TN early, EVERYONE knows that there are better options available. Even the coaches know it because they are actively looking for another backup pg for next years class when a scholly is not even available.

My point is that sure, Dane was a hard working kid that played hard, but what was he good at? Shooting - horrible. Defense - at the 4 he was abused. Passing - he was a good passer. Ball handling - good ball handler but not needed at the 4. Made the team better by being a glue guy - The team was MUCH better (night and day difference) when replace by Tyler Smith.

Lee would have found a spot on the team. Hell JuJuan didn't even start until his Junior year.

The Humphrey argument is not logical. Lee was a pure shooter not a PG. He would not have beaten out Chris for that spot so his contribution would have been diminished at UT. At Florida he was surrounded by 4 first round NBA guys which allowed him the freedom to do what he did best which was shoot wide open jumpers because the defense had to account for the stars on that team.

 

[johnnybravo]

The Humphrey argument is not logical. Lee was a pure shooter not a PG. He would not have beaten out Chris for that spot so his contribution would have been diminished at UT. At Florida he was surrounded by 4 first round NBA guys which allowed him the freedom to do what he did best which was shoot wide open jumpers because the defense had to account for the stars on that team.

Yeah, running a 4 guard line up in Pearl's early offense would have been stupid....oh wait, that's what we ran anyway.

 

[cncchris33]

Yeah, running a 4 guard line up in Pearl's early offense would have been stupid....oh wait, that's what we ran anyway.

The only guard spot in that 4 guard lineup that Humphrey could have realistically played was the spot Lofton played, and we both know that wasn't gonna happen, nor should it. He wasn't really a PG, and wouldn't have played over Watson or Ramar Smith there. He wasn't the athletic freak JuJuan Smith was, so he couldn't have played the SF position. He wasn't as big, strong or versatile as Bradshaw, so he couldn't have played the PF position.

He wouldn't have played much, had he come to Tennessee. Certainly not as much as he did at Florida, and I almost assure you he wouldn't have started like he did at Florida.

He ended up in a perfect situation for him because he was surrounded by NBA players and wasn't relied upon to do anything other than shoot. He was always the least talented player on the floor for them, and that's not a knock on him. At Tennessee, he would have been asked to do more than his ability would allow because we didn't have the individual talent to surround him with that Florida did.

 

[cncchris33]

Lee would have found a spot on the team. Hell JuJuan didn't even start until his Junior year.

Your second sentence is somewhat the antithesis to your first one.

Can we agree that JaJuan Smith was a better, more versatile player than Lee Humphrey? If we can, then the fact that Smith didn't start until his junior year should be a fairly good indicator of the logjam we had at the guard/SF position. Would Humphrey have found a place? Yeah, probably, but it wouldn't be a very significant one. Certainly not as significant as his place at Florida.

I don't think Tennessee or Lee Humphrey are any worse for the wear as a result of the decisions made leading us to not offer, and for him to attend Florida. He got more playing time there than he would have at Tennessee (not to mention 2 rings), and Tennessee didn't suffer in his absence.

 

[johnnybravo]

Frankly I could care less about the success he had at FL. If he's not wearing orange then he doesn't matter to me. If you think that way, then you should feel sorry for all the players throughout the years that wore orange when they could have went else where and had better careers. If Chism went to KY, then he would probably have been playing in the NBA. There are a lot of players that would have done better elsewhere. Personally, I would prefer him coming off the bench playing 10 minutes at the 2 and 10 at the 3 and wearing orange than winning championships at FL. But, maybe that's just me. I guess I just care too much about the Vols instead of the success FL is having

 

[cncchris33]

Frankly I could care less about the success he had at FL. If he's not wearing orange then he doesn't matter to me. If you think that way, then you should feel sorry for all the players throughout the years that wore orange when they could have went else where and had better careers. If Chism went to KY, then he would probably have been playing in the NBA. There are a lot of players that would have done better elsewhere. Personally, I would prefer him coming off the bench playing 10 minutes at the 2 and 10 at the 3 and wearing orange than winning championships at FL. But, maybe that's just me. I guess I just care too much about the Vols instead of the success FL is having

If that's what you took from my post, I'm not sure what else to say. I didn't say, imply, or hint that I cared about his success at Florida, other than to say the string of decisions seem to have worked out best for all parties involved...that includes Tennessee, with whom my interests lie. I, like you, would have loved seeing him shooting all those three's for Tennessee, but in reality, he wouldn't have been near the player here because of lack of opportunity.