13 Team SEC ?

#27
#27
I was told today that the SEC has no interenst in expanding the conference and that this is all a media creation. The person that told me this has close ties to a university in the SEC and I believe him.
 
#28
#28
madbamahater said:
No. The SEC is currently happy with it's 12 participants. They have mentioned they are not likely at all to add any teams in the foreseeable future.
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You people that laugh at this comment or do not take it seriously don't know what you're talking about. The SEC is not going to add Texas A&M unless there is a major change of circumstances.
 
#30
#30
volfan_28 said:
You people that laugh at this comment or do not take it seriously don't know what you're talking about. The SEC is not going to add Texas A&M unless there is a major change of circumstances.
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There will be a major change in circumstances. A&M had to get their legal house in order, Slive told them so. And Slive had to make sure the SEC didn't get hit with a meddling lawsuit. As soon as the ducks are all lined up A&M will join the SEC. Exposure to the Texas market and recruiting field is too great to ignore. Same reason VT will also be added, if not VT, it will be NC State but VT is preferred. It's going to happen.
 
#32
#32
I think Slive will pause at 13 members for 2012 and mabey even 2013. The reason for that pause would be to see if the B10 or Pac12 will make a move which precipitates the raiding of the ACC and remainder of the Big12.

IMO Slive's main eastern division targets are UNC & Duke. Yes VaTech is in a populous state but if you've ever visited Blacksburg it's in the middle of nowhere. Exactly how good will VT be once their version of Bobby Bowden (Frank Beamer) retires? They don't move the meter in any sport other than football. Somehow they're good enough to win the ACC and lose to James Madison in the same year. Color me unimpressed.

Duke and UNC wouldn't rock the boat in football but would upgrade basketball immediately. They'd also work well academically with ATM, Vandy, and UF, all of which are AAU members. I know many will scoff at the idea that the SEC would want them but they'd bring more to the conference than any other pairing of teams located in the southeast.

Just a guess but I think Slive's hoping the Big10 takes a run at UVA & Maryland and then 2 of the following Mizzou, Pitt, Kansas, Cuse, Rutgers, etc. They might even take a run at Duke/UNC but I think it's a bit of a stretch geographically. Anyway this action by the B10 would destabilize the ACC and lest they decide to become irrelevant in football, UNC/Duke would have to seriously consider Slive's offer.

East - UT, UGA, UF, UNC, Duke, Vandy, USC, UK
West - Bama, LSU, Arky, Aub, MissSt, OleMiss, ATM, OU/Mizzou

Clemson, VT, & FSU are rendered irrelevant by their exclusion from the league. Their string of top10 recruiting classes go bye bye.

If you take this one step further Slive might even be eyeing a move similar to the Big10 Network. Could you imagine the ratings from football, basketball, AND baseball seasons from the above conference model? That channel would be added to every cable package in the nation as mandatory viewing. Revenue would be ridiculous. Screw ESPN... :popcorn:
 
#33
#33
Voldemonium said:
If you take this one step further Slive might even be eyeing a move similar to the Big10 Network. Could you imagine the ratings from football, basketball, AND baseball seasons from the above conference model? That channel would be added to every cable package in the nation as mandatory viewing. Revenue would be ridiculous. Screw ESPN... :popcorn:
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If the SEC wanted a network like the Big 10 network, there would be one. Have you seen what's on the Big 10 network? Stuff like reruns of the 1952 women's field hockey tournament.

The deal with ESPN provides the SEC multiple channels that are part of practically every standard cable/satellite package not an extra fee sports package like the Big 10 network. The SEC network provides a lot more exposure to more viewers on gameday than the Big 10 Network can ever provide on its one channel to a limited number of households.
 
#34
#34
WoodsmanVol said:
There will be a major change in circumstances. A&M had to get their legal house in order, Slive told them so. And Slive had to make sure the SEC didn't get hit with a meddling lawsuit. As soon as the ducks are all lined up A&M will join the SEC. Exposure to the Texas market and recruiting field is too great to ignore. Same reason VT will also be added, if not VT, it will be NC State but VT is preferred. It's going to happen.
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It's not Slive's decision. It's the presidents' decision. It very well may happen but the first domino will not be tipped by the SEC.

The SEC is boss. We run the show. It doesn't matter who anyone else adds. We are the best because we have the talent, the coaches, and the money. There isn't a team in the nation that doesn't look at the SEC and wish they could be a part of what we have. There is absolutely no reason at all for the SEC to go out and add another team. TV markets don't mean a thing. THE ENTIRE NATION WATCHES OUR FOOTBALL GAMES.
 
#35
#35
dobre_shunka said:
If the SEC wanted a network like the Big 10 network, there would be one. Have you seen what's on the Big 10 network? Stuff like reruns of the 1952 women's field hockey tournament.

The deal with ESPN provides the SEC multiple channels that are part of practically every standard cable/satellite package not an extra fee sports package like the Big 10 network. The SEC network provides a lot more exposure to more viewers on gameday than the Big 10 Network can ever provide on its one channel to a limited number of households.
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Did you know the Big10 stands to make more this year from it's network than it does from ABC/ESPN? Amazing how much money is available once you cut out the middleman. When you deal directly with Time Warner, Comcast, etc the dollars are higher. The SEC doesn't have a network because 4-5yrs ago Slive wasn't convinced the model was worth the startup expense. The B10 has demonstrated that the model does indeed work. Unfortunately the SEC was locked into a longterm deal with ESPN by then.
 
#36
#36
Voldemonium said:
Did you know the Big10 stands to make more this year from it's network than it does from ABC/ESPN? Amazing how much money is available once you cut out the middleman. When you deal directly with Time Warner, Comcast, etc the dollars are higher. The SEC doesn't have a network because 4-5yrs ago Slive wasn't convinced the model was worth the startup expense. The B10 has demonstrated that the model does indeed work. Unfortunately the SEC was locked into a longterm deal with ESPN by then.
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Correct. While they make 10 cents a subscriber out of region, any area that falls under "regional" for them (Chicago, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Cleveland, Philly, Minneapolis, Detroit) they get 70 cents per subscriber. It's because of the unprecedented financial success of this network that each big 10 school is making $4 to $5 million a year more split per school (meaning about $44 to $55 million more total) than the SEC brings in for each of its schools
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#37
#37
The big Ten's success is likely also what prompted Texas to try it's hand in the area by making its own network
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#38
#38
volfan_28 said:
It's not Slive's decision. It's the presidents' decision. It very well may happen but the first domino will not be tipped by the SEC.

The SEC is boss. We run the show. It doesn't matter who anyone else adds. We are the best because we have the talent, the coaches, and the money. There isn't a team in the nation that doesn't look at the SEC and wish they could be a part of what we have. There is absolutely no reason at all for the SEC to go out and add another team. TV markets don't mean a thing. THE ENTIRE NATION WATCHES OUR FOOTBALL GAMES.
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:ermm: you crush a beer can on your head after that one?
 
#39
#39
TrueOrange said:
Correct. While they make 10 cents a subscriber out of region, any area that falls under "regional" for them (Chicago, cincy, Cleveland, Philly, Minneapolis, Detroit) they get 70 cents per subscriber. It's because of the unprecedented financial success of this network that each big 10 school is making $5 to $6 million a year more split per school (meaning $55 to $66 million more total) than the SEC brings in for each of its schools
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Not to derail this thread but:

"Last year, schools received roughly $9 million each from the conference's deal with ABC/ESPN and another $7 million to $8 million from the BTN. Add revenue from bowl games, the NCAA basketball tournament and licensing, and you arrive at the estimated $22 million-a-year distribution figure that's the envy of every Division I school outside the Southeastern Conference."

Big Ten could see TV money skyrocket with expansion - Chicago Tribune
 
#40
#40
my bad then. I don't know all the exact numbers for each.

that's from following the 09-10 season, correct? Can you find the amount the SEC schools were dispersed that year? I believe it was at around either 16 to 18 mill

I can't find the numbers from then, but i do know that this season's average distribution was (average) $18.3 million per school.

EDIT: got it, each school made about an average of $17.5 million off the revenue distribution that year. So i'm a little bit off on the top end, i'll edit my previous post
 
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#41
#41
Voldemonium said:
I think Slive will pause at 13 members for 2012 and mabey even 2013. The reason for that pause would be to see if the B10 or Pac12 will make a move which precipitates the raiding of the ACC and remainder of the Big12.
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so you think this is a your move type situation? He's doing this to try to beat people to the punch; not some sly gambit

IMO Slive's main eastern division targets are UNC & Duke. Yes VaTech is in a populous state but if you've ever visited Blacksburg it's in the middle of nowhere. Exactly how good will VT be once their version of Bobby Bowden (Frank Beamer) retires? They don't move the meter in any sport other than football. Somehow they're good enough to win the ACC and lose to James Madison in the same year. Color me unimpressed.
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:ermm: expansion's all about following the money, not about who's a stronger team

Duke and UNC wouldn't rock the boat in football but would upgrade basketball immediately. They'd also work well academically with ATM, Vandy, and UF, all of which are AAU members. I know many will scoff at the idea that the SEC would want them but they'd bring more to the conference than any other pairing of teams located in the southeast.
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Few things here. 1) Basketball doesn't generate a lot of revenue/profit, which is what all this (& any other) expansion is being driven by. Even at Duke's best their revenue is around that of a middle of the line football school. 2) UNC & duke don't want to leave their little circle of the other NC schools (NC St & Wake). They like the what, these close associations - as well as being in ACC - does for their academic appearance (same reason GA Tech won't really want to leave either). 3) They'd also, likely, never jump to the SEC because of how these schools are viewed academically (or perceived lack there of). While it'd help the conference to have more smart schools, as of the moment, we'd all be pulling them down. They're not going to want to jump on ship just to carry someone else's weight


Just a guess but I think Slive's hoping the Big10 takes a run at UVA & Maryland and then 2 of the following Mizzou, Pitt, Kansas, Cuse, Rutgers, etc.
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First off, i doubt the big 10 cares at all to go after UVA & Maryland or any ACC team for that matter. These expansions aren't really just the large eating the perceived smaller schools and/or destroying them

Again, basketball has little to no influence on this process because it doesn't generate much revenue at all. Expansion is all about following the money. KU is going to (unfortunately for them) likely be left to rot like they were going to be in last year's almost expansions (here's a comparison: KU's basketball team brought in a revenue of $16 mill - vs $1o mill in expenses. Mizzou's football team alone made nearly $10 mill more in revenue than that)

They might even take a run at Duke/UNC but I think it's a bit of a stretch geographically. Anyway this action by the B10 would destabilize the ACC and lest they decide to become irrelevant in football, UNC/Duke would have to seriously consider Slive's offer.
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you're banking on that earlier Maryland & UVA move to create this correct? The NC schools are the heart of the ACC; as long as they're untouched, the conference would just pluck someone else from either the nearby area or - at most - the big east. But losing UVA & the terps...those two won't make the conference fall apart

East - UT, UGA, UF, UNC, Duke, Vandy, USC, UK
West - Bama, LSU, Arky, Aub, MissSt, OleMiss, ATM, OU/Mizzou

Clemson, VT, & FSU are rendered irrelevant by their exclusion from the league. Their string of top10 recruiting classes go bye bye.
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no OU without Ok St.

If you take this one step further Slive might even be eyeing a move similar to the Big10 Network. Could you imagine the ratings from football, basketball, AND baseball seasons from the above conference model? That channel would be added to every cable package in the nation as mandatory viewing. Revenue would be ridiculous. Screw ESPN... :popcorn:
Click to expand...

I get that you want the moves to be made so as to bring about schools to make the conference dominant in all sports and be proud/able to brag about it to all others...but likely, that's not the way this thing goes
 
#43
#43
TrueOrange said:
so you think this is a your move type situation? He's doing this to try to beat people to the punch; not some sly gambit

I do.

:ermm: expansion's all about following the money, not about who's a stronger team

Don't know where you got the impression I thought this had anything to do with team strength. Perhaps it was my exclusion of FSU/Clemson?

Few things here. 1) Basketball doesn't generate a lot of revenue/profit, which is what all this (& any other) expansion is being driven by. Even at Duke's best their revenue is around that of a middle of the line football school. 2) UNC & duke don't want to leave their little circle of the other NC schools (NC St & Wake). They like the what, these close associations - as well as being in ACC - does for their academic appearance (same reason GA Tech won't really want to leave either). 3) They'd also, likely, never jump to the SEC because of how these schools are viewed academically (or perceived lack there of). While it'd help the conference to have more smart schools, as of the moment, we'd all be pulling them down. They're not going to want to jump on ship just to carry someone else's weight.

I think Slive could convince them that enough schools are making strides to change their national academic perception. UT's been on a drive for the past few years to become a top 25 public university. I believe Bama, Auburn and UGA have similar goals. UF, ATM and Vandy are already there.

Question? - Why can you find guys wearing Carolina Blue and to a lesser extent Duke in almost any major city? Because they're national brands in basketball. Their merchandising and marketability are huge. UNC could easily rise to USCe level in football. Duke, not so much. Dickie V (god do I hate him) ensures that both schools are on national prime-time television about a dozen times each and every year regardless of record or opponent. I'd guess that they'd bring more revenue to the conference than UK, USCe, OleMiss, MissSt, or Vandy. You must admit that a single conference with UNC/UK/Duke and then 5-6 annual tourny teams like UF, UT, Vandy, ATM, and resurgent Bama would be solid.

I get that the odds of either of them wanting to be associated with SEC ignoramuses is low but the money dictates that Slive explore all avenues before giving up. Basketball rivalries aren't a reason to stay in the same conference. Schools generally play ~30 games in the regular season. That leaves more than enough slots for Tobacco Road schools to play.



First off, i doubt the big 10 cares at all to go after UVA & Maryland or any ACC team for that matter. These expansions aren't really just the large eating the perceived smaller schools and/or destroying them

Again, basketball has little to no influence on this process because it doesn't generate much revenue at all. Expansion is all about following the money. KU is going to (unfortunately for them) likely be left to rot like they were going to be in last year's almost expansions (here's a comparison: KU's basketball team brought in a revenue of $16 mill - vs $1o mill in expenses. Mizzou's football team alone made nearly $10 mill more in revenue than that)



you're banking on that earlier Maryland & UVA move to create this correct? The NC schools are the heart of the ACC; as long as they're untouched, the conference would just pluck someone else from either the nearby area or - at most - the big east. But losing UVA & the terps...those two won't make the conference fall apart

I understand your position but I disagree. If you visit any Big10 message board or read any northern newspaper sports page Maryland and UVA are firmly in the Big10's sights. Both schools fit the Big10 profile of being high caliber public schools. UVA is probably top 5 nationally. Thomas Jefferson founded the school. You can't get more elite than that. They also have huge endowments and research budgets. While this kindof stuff doesn't matter to Slive, it's a requirement for B10 membership. UVA and UMD have a huge alumni base in the D.C metro area. They might not care about sports now but if PSU, OSU, & UM start playing home/away football games the interest would explode.

I'll concede that UNC/Duke may just plug in a BigE team and continue the ACC however the Big10's actions could at least force them to have a discussion with Slive. It could be possible that NCST comes on board but before Slive is hasty with an invite I think he'll wait until the preferred duo have fully considered their options.

no OU without Ok St.
I think OU's about to find out real soon that Texas is about to give them the same treatment they gave ATM. And once the writing's on the wall the Oklahoma legislature will be in no position to dictate to the SEC the inclusion of OKSt. They'll either both go to the Pac12 or OU will decide to get paid and come east to the SEC. There's nothing about either OKSt or OU that fits the Pac10 culturally. Square peg round hole. Travel cost would kill'em. But OU would fit in quite nicely with ATM, LSU, & Arky.

I get that you want the moves to be made so as to bring about schools to make the conference dominant in all sports and be proud/able to brag about it to all others...but likely, that's not the way this thing goes
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Agreed. But I think balance in the money sport (football) has to be a factor. If the conference is turned into the AFL South by adding only football schools then the SEC shoots itself in the foot. The money would be great but we'd never win another NC.
:twocents:
 
#44
#44
#45
#45
couldn't they just add two teams: A&M and Missouri and move Auburn and Alabama to the East??? why the eff not
 
#46
#46
when we "eventually" move to 16 teams, we will need a conference tourney. FACT
 
#47
#47
UTvol1fn said:
couldn't they just add two teams: A&M and Missouri and move Auburn and Alabama to the East??? why the eff not
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(& push vandy to the east in that scenario)

(or just push the rebels or miss St east)
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#49
#49
UTvol1fn said:
couldn't they just add two teams: A&M and Missouri and move Auburn and Alabama to the East??? why the eff not
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So the divisions you are proposing are as follows

Division 1 (Heavyweights)
-UF
-UGA
-UT
-Bama
-Auburn
-USCjr
-UK

Divison 2 (LSU vs. The Field)
-LSU
-Arkansas
-Miss St.
-Ole Miss
-Vandy
-aTm
-Mizzou


Somehow I don't see the teams that would be in the eastern division being too eager to go along with that setup.
 
#50
#50
bleedorange0037 said:
So the divisions you are proposing are as follows

Division 1 (Heavyweights)
-UF
-UGA
-UT
-Bama
-Auburn
-USCjr
-UK

Divison 2 (LSU vs. The Field)
-LSU
-Arkansas
-Miss St.
-Ole Miss
-Vandy
-aTm
-Mizzou


Somehow I don't see the teams that would be in the eastern division being too eager to go along with that setup.
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14 teams, no divisions, with the top 4 teams in a 2 week SEC playoff....this better
 
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