'13 VA RB Derrick Green (Michigan commit)

#6,077
#6,077
sjt18 said:
Did I say illegal or unethical? Not unfair as in it shouldn't be done...

It is just something that Michigan has no individual control over that puts them at a disadvantage. The SEC is drawing the best players right now in part because of TV. The SEC was uniquely positioned to get that deal. Michigan and tOSU have great tradition... but happen to be stuck in a conference with teams that simply do not have an SEC level of fan following. Part of that is the NFL's longer presence in Big 10 country too.
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How does Michigan have no control over it? They can't leave the Big 10? They exert no influence in the Big 10? They were coerced into whatever agreement keeps them bound to the Big 10?

Still not grasping how it's unfair. It's no different than saying Alabama has an unfair advantage over TN because Alabama has Saban and 3 recent NCs.

Unfair would be if NCAA rules gave the SEC a distinct advantage over the big 10. Unfair isn't Michigan finding themselves captive in a situation they helped make.
 
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#6,078
#6,078
Fleetwood1104 said:
not that this means much but the B1G does have their own network but i don't know how available it is across the country. i know it's available on directv and at&t uverse outside of the market but i don't know about the others. plus UM only had a handful of games not on either espn or abc, and those were the fluff games and those were one BTN. how was the UT television schedule as far as the games not against fla, ala, usc, etc?
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I have lived in MO for about 10 years. UT has not been great for those ten years. I've avg'd seeing 8-10 games per year on TV. I think I only missed two or 3 on TV this year with the Mizzou move... and that's a really, really bad Vol team.

ABC goes regional. CBS and ESPN are national. The SEC Network games for ESPN often get carried on WB nationally for those who get it.

FWIW, who on Michigan's schedule outside of ND, Wisconsin, and OSU is not a "fluff" game? I doubt there is a single team in the SEC that wouldn't have traded their '12 schedules with Michigan based on difficulty. Not dissing Michigan... but the SEC has UK... the Big 10 has Illinois, Minnesota, Purdue, Indiana, Iowa,.... NW is up and down, MSU used to be a joke for everyone but Michigan and ND,...

It hasn't been that long ago that I mad other SEC fans mad by saying the Big 10 was the strongest conference top to bottom in CFB. That isn't close to being true now.
 
#6,079
#6,079
sjt18 said:
Did I say illegal or unethical? Not unfair as in it shouldn't be done...

It is just something that Michigan has no individual control over that puts them at a disadvantage. The SEC is drawing the best players right now in part because of TV. The SEC was uniquely positioned to get that deal. Michigan and tOSU have great tradition... but happen to be stuck in a conference with teams that simply do not have an SEC level of fan following. Part of that is the NFL's longer presence in Big 10 country too.
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I remember the NC State game with Tennessee was ESPNU highest rated show. Then there was another ratings grabber with Florida. Tennessee brings in the ratings, and if they actually start winning again ????
 
#6,080
#6,080
ETNVol said:
How does Michigan have no control over it? They can't leave the Big 10? They exert no influence in the Big 10? They were coerced into whatever agreement keeps them bound to the Big 10?
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Give it a rest. You carried my point further than its intent. Michigan has a disadvantage because of TV. Can you just leave it there?
 
#6,081
#6,081
sjt18 said:
The time when we could be impressed with coming in a close second for talent... has passed. Tough gig for Jones but he has to get some of these people or he will be about where Dooley was in year 3.
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I agree that CBJ needs to start landing the Derrick Greens, Carl Lawsons, and Vonn Bells of the world to compete in the SEC but, in my mind, it is pretty astonishing that CBJ and his staff have worked their way in with so many big time players in a limited timeframe. Part of it is that Graham, Thigpen, and Martinez had existing relationships with these kids but it must be remembered that CBJ being hired as UT's new coach was not a huge splash type hire (a la Saban at Bama, CUM at OSU, etc.). For that reason, the reception to him is the by-product of his hard work and charisma (as well as the staff as a whole). CBJ and his staff need to land highly regarded 4* and 5* type players by their second year here but getting one or two (or three) 5* this year seems to be a year or two ahead of schedule. All in all, I am pleased with the effort of our staff and I think it will certainly pay dividends by next year but it could very well pay off this year because Lawson, Green, Bell, Bellamy, Levenberry, etc., are the types of players to turn around this program in a hurry and I sure hope we get them this year.
 
#6,083
#6,083
WhatInVolnation said:
I agree that CBJ needs to start landing the Derrick Greens, Carl Lawsons, and Vonn Bells of the world to compete in the SEC but, in my mind, it is pretty astonishing that CBJ and his staff have worked their way in with so many big time players in a limited timeframe. Part of it is that Graham, Thigpen, and Martinez had existing relationships with these kids but it must be remembered that CBJ being hired as UT's new coach was not a huge splash type hire (a la Saban at Bama, CUM at OSU, etc.). For that reason, the reception to him is the by-product of his hard work and charisma (as well as the staff as a whole). CBJ and his staff need to land highly regarded 4* and 5* type players by their second year here but getting one or two (or three) 5* this year seems to be a year or two ahead of schedule. All in all, I am pleased with the effort of our staff and I think it will certainly pay dividends by next year but it could very well pay off this year because Lawson, Green, Bell, Bellamy, Levenberry, etc., are the types of players to turn around this program in a hurry and I sure hope we get them this year.
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No doubt. I think it is completely reasonable to think that way... and it still does not change the bottom line. People were impressed with what Dooley did those first 2.5 weeks. Three years later some of the same people won't admit that he did anything right at any point.

Jones has to win... or this fanbase will turn on him in year 3. I told people the same thing about Dooley and they mocked me. They assured me that Vol fans knew where the program was and would be patient. I knew... and HOPED that it was not true. You just can't allow that kind of time at UT. If a coach does not prove he can get it done in 3 years then he starts to slide backwards in recruiting with no hope of recovering. UT is still too dependent on pulling out of state players.

I am more skeptical of the "giddiness" of fans right now than I am of Jones ability. But have no delusions. This class is critical to his future whether it is "fair" or not.

That said... I don't care about rankings. He just has to find players who can win games playing for him. It would be nice to get the Rivals seal of approval... but talent is talent regardless of "stars".
 
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#6,084
#6,084
sjt18 said:
I have lived in MO for about 10 years. UT has not been great for those ten years. I've avg'd seeing 8-10 games per year on TV. I think I only missed two or 3 on TV this year with the Mizzou move... and that's a really, really bad Vol team.

ABC goes regional. CBS and ESPN are national. The SEC Network games for ESPN often get carried on WB nationally for those who get it.

FWIW, who on Michigan's schedule outside of ND, Wisconsin, and OSU is not a "fluff" game? I doubt there is a single team in the SEC that wouldn't have traded their '12 schedules with Michigan based on difficulty. Not dissing Michigan... but the SEC has UK... the Big 10 has Illinois, Minnesota, Purdue, Indiana, Iowa,.... NW is up and down, MSU used to be a joke for everyone but Michigan and ND,...

It hasn't been that long ago that I mad other SEC fans mad by saying the Big 10 was the strongest conference top to bottom in CFB. That isn't close to being true now.
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ok maybe more so what i meant by fluff is the OOC games, not that 1/3 of the in conference games aren't kind of fluff too. i definitely wouldn't say the big 10 is the strongest conf top to bottom right now, but i don't know that i would say the sec is either, but then again, how do you guage that?

it seems lately the sec has had kind of a revolving door of the lower teams while the big 10 bottom half remains the same. i'm not bashing the sec or trying to say they aren't any good but just mainly wondering just how do you determine which is the strongest/toughest conference top to bottom.
 
#6,085
#6,085
anyhow, back to derrick green. i think whichever team he ends up signing with will benefit greatly but i'm concerned that auburn may have gotten back into this more than we realize
 
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#6,087
#6,087
sjt18 said:
Give it a rest. You carried my point further than its intent. Michigan has a disadvantage because of TV. Can you just leave it there?
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The underlying disadvantage is that most of the high star talent is in the deep south and there is nothing going to change that. Unless Meyer or Hoke or anyone else from up there can convince enough of those boys to come up there and play in the cold they will never be able to consistently compete. The TV contracts are just a by-product of the level of competition that is placed on the field. They are on TV more because they are better.
 
#6,088
#6,088
I'm not a guy that has blind loyalty to one conference or another. But right now the SEC is the strongest from top to bottom and it isn't very close. There are good or even great teams in every conference but from a talent and coaching standpoint... The SEC has separated itself. There are a few objective ways to analyze that and a bunch of reasonable subjective ways.


I am the odd ball here among Vol fans. I would love to see Green a Vol but do not think RB is even close to the most critical needs for Jones right now. So there won't be any weeping or gnashing of teeth from me if he chooses Michigan. I hope he doesn't choose Auburn for his own sake.
 
#6,090
#6,090
sjt18 said:
I'm not a guy that has blind loyalty to one conference or another. But right now the SEC is the strongest from top to bottom and it isn't very close. There are good or even great teams in every conference but from a talent and coaching standpoint... The SEC has separated itself. There are a few objective ways to analyze that and a bunch of reasonable subjective ways.

I am the odd ball here among Vol fans. I would love to see Green a Vol but do not think RB is even close to the most critical needs for Jones right now. So there won't be any weeping or gnashing of teeth from me if he chooses Michigan. I hope he doesn't choose Auburn for his own sake.
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what are those ways, i'd seriously like to know some ways to prove it rather than it being someones opinion.

EDIT: actually i'd like to see someone start up a thread to debate things like this, if only it could be done logically and not filled with homers chanting WHOOOOOO!!!!! ESS EEE CEE every other post. that way we wouldn't be cluttering up threads about recruits with which conference is better/worse and why.

i think if me being a UM fan were to start it up it would turn into a bashing fest at me for trolling.
 
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#6,091
#6,091
Ashevillevol said:
The underlying disadvantage is that most of the high star talent is in the deep south and there is nothing going to change that. Unless Meyer or Hoke or anyone else from up there can convince enough of those boys to come up there and play in the cold they will never be able to consistently compete. The TV contracts are just a by-product of the level of competition that is placed on the field. They are on TV more because they are better.
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This usually comes down to a question of HSFB quality and racial demographics- and legitimately so.

There is more than sufficient athleticism/talent in the heart of Big 10 country- Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, and Pennsylvania to compete with the deep south and SEC.

List of U.S. states by African-American population - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
#6,092
#6,092
sjt18 said:
This usually comes down to a question of HSFB quality and racial demographics- and legitimately so.

There is more than sufficient athleticism/talent in the heart of Big 10 country- Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, and Pennsylvania to compete with the deep south and SEC.

List of U.S. states by African-American population - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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I agree with what you are saying but there is just a higher concentration in the south so they may be able to have a handful of teams that can compete but they will never have 5-6 teams in the top 10 from the Big 10. There is just not enough to spread that thin and be competetive. There will always be year to year exceptions for one or two teams maybe but not consistently like SEC.
 
#6,093
#6,093
Fleetwood1104 said:
personally i think it would be funny for DG to do a hat ceremony and hide a wad of cash under the auburn hat and act all surprised when he lifted it up and saw it, and then the NCAA brought the hammer down on auburn
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I like that idea.
 
#6,094
#6,094
sjt18 said:
This usually comes down to a question of HSFB quality and racial demographics- and legitimately so.

There is more than sufficient athleticism/talent in the heart of Big 10 country- Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, and Pennsylvania to compete with the deep south and SEC.

List of U.S. states by African-American population - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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soooooo what you're saying is if there are a lot of african-americans in the area they are automatically athletic and population of said AA determines whether there should be more atheltic talent in one state compared to another?
 
#6,096
#6,096
Fleetwood1104 said:
not that this means much but the B1G does have their own network but i don't know how available it is across the country. i know it's available on directv and at&t uverse outside of the market but i don't know about the others. plus UM only had a handful of games not on either espn or abc, and those were the fluff games and those were one BTN. how was the UT television schedule as far as the games not against fla, ala, usc, etc?
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I have the Big10 Network with Direct TV. Im pretty sure that SEC teams have every game on TV but 1. Each school gets 1 PPV game per year. Now not every game is on ESPN or CBS, but all games other than 1 is televised somewhere.
 
#6,098
#6,098
shoney said:
I have the Big10 Network with Direct TV. Im pretty sure that SEC teams have every game on TV but 1. Each school gets 1 PPV game per year. Now not every game is on ESPN or CBS, but all games other than 1 is televised somewhere.
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Yep. I got all of them last year on DTV with the Sports Pack.
 
#6,099
#6,099
sjt18 said:
This usually comes down to a question of HSFB quality and racial demographics- and legitimately so.

There is more than sufficient athleticism/talent in the heart of Big 10 country- Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, and Pennsylvania to compete with the deep south and SEC.

List of U.S. states by African-American population - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

The difference between the south and midwest in respect to football talent is all about climate. I'm from the midwest, when it gets cold here, our athletes go indoors and play basketball, while the athletes in the south get to work on their football game all year around.
 
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#6,100
#6,100
Fleetwood1104 said:
what are those ways, i'd seriously like to know some ways to prove it rather than it being someones opinion
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Margins of victory in NC games would be a good one... and especially when compared back to conference games against supposed lesser opponents. NC participants are a product of the competition they faced during the year.

It is somewhat difficult to compare bowl games since SEC teams frequently play "up". IOW's, a 5th seed SEC team plays another conference's #2 team.

A legit match up to compare by this year was UGA vs Neb. The game wasn't as competitive as the score... in spite of Richt not being a great game day coach. Those types of games where repeated often become a basis for comparing the conferences with less subjectivity involved.

The matchups of teams in comparable positions within their conferences is another. Bama hammered Michigan when you were probably the 3rd or so best team in the Big 10. UF dominated tOSU a few years ago in a NC game. When the top tier of one conference pretty consistently beats the top tier of other conferences... that's an objective measure. You can look at mid vs mid, lower vs lower, mid vs lower too.

Players going to the NFL provides a good indicator taken over time.
 
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