'17' TN ATH Tee Higgins (Clemson commit)

#8,927
#8,927
VolunteerHillbilly said:
As many as it took.

McGill, sorry you are such a defeatist that you cannot have hope that UTK can make the homerun hire.
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Lol..show me when UTightwad has ever laid out the money for a big name...answer...NEVER. You guys call yourselves "realist", but you are the ones living in fantasy land. If Butch doesn't do better in the next two years, then fire him and move on to the next mediocre coach, but he has worked hard enough, and done a good enough job at resurrecting us from oblivion that he deserves some patience. Hopefully last year was just a series of misstep and horrible unfortunate events that will probably never happen again.
 
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#8,930
#8,930
Ulysees E. McGill said:
Lol..show me when UTightwad has ever laid out the money for a big name...answer...NEVER. You guys call yourselves "realist", but you are the ones living in fantasy land. If Butch doesn't do better in the next two years, then fire him and move on to the next mediocre coach, but he has worked hard enough, and done a good enough job at resurrecting us from oblivion that he deserves some patience. Hopefully last year was just a series of misstep and horrible unfortunate events that will probably never happen again.
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I think it's underselling the program to say we'll never hire a superstar head coach. We didn't have to get in that mix for three decades during the tenures of Majors and Fulmer. They spent big bucks on Kiffin's staff, probably as much as if they'd landed the big name and paid for an above average staff.

How many 8-win regular seasons in a row before you'll think he's been given enough time?
 
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#8,931
#8,931
VolunteerHillbilly said:
I think it's underselling the program to say we'll never hire a superstar head coach. We didn't have to get in that mix for three decades during the tenures of Majors and Fulmer. They spent big bucks on Kiffin's staff, probably as much as if they'd landed the big name and paid for an above average staff.

How many 8-win regular seasons in a row before you'll think he's been given enough time?
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He's had two 9-win seasons in a row. You act like that is a step down from where the program was, in reality it is great progress. You comment like he's been here 10 years and had five 8-win seasons in a row.

You're way too early with your criticism, at least by 1-2 years.
 
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#8,932
#8,932
Enki_Amenra said:
He's had two 9-win seasons in a row. You act like that is a step down from where the program was, in reality it is great progress. You comment like he's been here 10 years and had five 8-win seasons in a row.

You're way too early with your criticism, at least by 1-2 years.
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8 win regular seasons, both of which could've easily been 10 win regular seasons with proper game management.
 
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#8,934
#8,934
VolunteerHillbilly said:
8 win regular seasons, both of which could've easily been 10 win regular seasons with proper game management.
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It's funny because I would imagine if Tennessee would have lost those bowl games, you would have pointed that out. But you don't give credit for Tennessee's bowl wins. Your arguments are some of the worst on this message board. And that's saying something. 'Guru' my a$$.
 
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#8,937
#8,937
VolunteerHillbilly said:
I think it's underselling the program to say we'll never hire a superstar head coach. We didn't have to get in that mix for three decades during the tenures of Majors and Fulmer. They spent big bucks on Kiffin's staff, probably as much as if they'd landed the big name and paid for an above average staff.

How many 8-win regular seasons in a row before you'll think he's been given enough time?
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In regards to active head coaches, there are only about 5 sure things out there worth breaking the bank for. And of those 5 or so, 4 of them aren't leaving their respective gigs to come to UT regardless of how much $ is offered. And regardless of what some of you choose to believe, Butch Jones is not the worst coach in the NCAA and it is no certainty that the majority of coaches out there would do any better than him. The program could sacrifice continuity and keep hitting reset after year 4 for perpetuity, and we may be better off eventually or maybe not.

Considering what we lose from a production standpoint, I'd say if he matches the '16 record in '17, he should definitely get the '18 season to improve on it. After that, it would be fairly safe to say he'd plateaued.
 
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#8,938
#8,938
VolunteerHillbilly said:
8 win regular seasons, both of which could've easily been 10 win regular seasons with proper game management.
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With proper in game management, Saban could've beat UAB when he first got to Bama. Every single coach makes in game mistakes. It's just magnified by the talent differential. Dabo was seen as a mediocre coach for years until recruiting stocked and stacked that roster.

My criticisms of Butch are that he's a little slow to react to personnel needing to be replaced like S&C, and defensive assistants.
 
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#8,939
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#8,940
#8,940
DaddyChad said:
With proper in game management, Saban could've beat UAB when he first got to Bama. Every single coach makes in game mistakes. It's just magnified by the talent differential. Dabo was seen as a mediocre coach for years until recruiting stocked and stacked that roster.

My criticisms of Butch are that he's a little slow to react to personnel needing to be replaced like S&C, and defensive assistants.
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It's been stated that it wasn't butchs fault for the S&C, he wasn't allowed to make a new hire. He replaced his DC, DB, Dline coach so I'm not sure what you mean there. And it's not exactly like he waited for multiple years of bad defensive play. Jancek and Co turned our defensive around pretty quickly so there was no reason for them to get fired quicker.
Ig u could criticize keeping Coach Thig on staff
 
#8,942
#8,942
FrostyDawg said:
And then would have been criticized as another Mark Richt...
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I don't think there would be any room for criticism if he'd won the winnable games. He didn't come through so there's criticism.

For those who insist in having people state the obvious... This program right now is better than the historic low of Dooley. There. I said it, again. Butch Jones is better than the worst coach we've ever had. This isn't about being better than Dooley. There are high school coaches all over this state who could've done better than Dooley. Heck, maybe Dooley now could do better than Dooley then.
 
#8,943
#8,943
VolunteerHillbilly said:
I don't think there would be any room for criticism if he'd won the winnable games. He didn't come through so there's criticism.

For those who insist in having people state the obvious... This program right now is better than the historic low of Dooley. There. I said it, again. Butch Jones is better than the worst coach we've ever had. This isn't about being better than Dooley. There are high school coaches all over this state who could've done better than Dooley. Heck, maybe Dooley now could do better than Dooley then.
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I just think there's a bit more criticism than deserved. Butch did not have years of power 5 experience coming in...he's made mistakes. The telling factor is does he learn & make corrections? You don't win in the SEC if you don't recruit well. I think everyone agrees Butch does. He has made progress. He could...maybe should be in a better position. But we are far better off than we were in a relatively short amount of time if you factor in everything. Let's face it, Butch was not a big time hire. Let's give credit for his positives & see if he can continue to improve. I think the administrative changes will only help.

I think he has laid a decent foundation & I think he should be given a bit more time to build on it...especially if he can win 8 games this season. I think we will see some improvements on the field as some step up and produce closer to their hype. Better coaching will help.
 
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#8,944
#8,944
Fair enough. Everyone's seeing different things right now and I imagine that people's perspective has a lot to do with whether they were excited or disappointed when we hired Butch and whether they think given improved finances and a better roster the UTAD is now in a position to reel in a whale.
 
#8,946
#8,946
FrostyDawg said:
I just think there's a bit more criticism than deserved. Butch did not have years of power 5 experience coming in...he's made mistakes. The telling factor is does he learn & make corrections? You don't win in the SEC if you don't recruit well. I think everyone agrees Butch does. He has made progress. He could...maybe should be in a better position. But we are far better off than we were in a relatively short amount of time if you factor in everything. Let's face it, Butch was not a big time hire. Let's give credit for his positives & see if he can continue to improve. I think the administrative changes will only help.

I think he has laid a decent foundation & I think he should be given a bit more time to build on it...especially if he can win 8 games this season. I think we will see some improvements on the field as some step up and produce closer to their hype. Better coaching will help.
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I agree with everything you said except this. Very few executives take over an organization and develop staff. In fact, they usually get rid of them since it's easier and pads their dormant desk as actually doing something to maintain their over inflated salary. A good Manager will see CBJs strengths and weaknesses and develop him. Most are too fat and happy to earn their pay. But somehow they get paid a lot of money to only fire people and basically do nothing besides being a figure head.
 
#8,947
#8,947
Hillbilly posted Butch should have two 10 win seasons. Which is probly true...but I was being facetious saying even that would not satisfy the nay sayers & negavols.
 
#8,948
#8,948
PrattvilleVol said:
I agree with everything you said except this. Very few executives take over an organization and develop staff. In fact, they usually get rid of them since it's easier and pads their dormant desk as actually doing something to maintain their over inflated salary. A good Manager will see CBJs strengths and weaknesses and develop him. Most are too fat and happy to earn their pay. But somehow they get paid a lot of money to only fire people and basically do nothing besides being a figure head.
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You may be right, Pratt...I do think previous administrative people hindered Butch's ability to make changes in the coaching staff or things may have been a bit different.

I hope recent personnel changes in the staff & the athletic department are positive steps.
 
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#8,949
#8,949
VolunteerHillbilly said:
I don't think there would be any room for criticism if he'd won the winnable games. He didn't come through so there's criticism.

For those who insist in having people state the obvious... This program right now is better than the historic low of Dooley. There. I said it, again. Butch Jones is better than the worst coach we've ever had. This isn't about being better than Dooley. There are high school coaches all over this state who could've done better than Dooley. Heck, maybe Dooley now could do better than Dooley then.
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I would argue that he is better than 3 out of our last five coaches. He is the first of these 6 (including himself) to not be at an extreme of awful or great. I will say that he inherited the worst situation out of the six with Majors being a close second. It remains to be seen if he will continue to improve the program. I do love kicking the crap out of the Big 10 at the end of the year.
 
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