'17 TN OL/DT Trey Smith (UT commit 12/6/2016)

If this was Alabama I'd be concerned.

I have zero concerns with Ole Miss. They're about to face a 2 year bowl ban, loss of a ton of scholarships, and Freeze might even be fired.

They aint getting nobody.

Like I said, I'm not overly concerned. I think this one will go the distance. But as secking reiterated, if you want a pretty good indicator of where a kid is leaning at the time, follow the visits. Things change with these kids fast, and it's not an infallible indicator at all, but most of these kids aren't going to these places out of their own pockets on unofficials unless there is more than a passing interest. That's why I feel better about our CURRENT chances with recruits like Higgins, Holloman, Chandler, Cam Akers, and Emory Jones than Trey Smith or Jordan Williams.
 
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Wrong, again.

The LOA was dropped on Ole Miss right before signing day (and if you ask rebel fans, on purpose).

The two year investigation was about Tunsil, not a 'new' one. Miller had already given them all his financial records as well, texts, phone records, etc. Tunsil finally just admitted the truth on draft night. I do believe the Treadwell recruitment is even dirtier than Tunsil, but no one on that side is squealing.

As I said, OM lands the big fish in Jan/Feb, go look at ALL of the classes under Freeze. All the big ones are last minute guys.......I'll wait

No. You're the one that is wrong. Its true that the NOA was sent to Ole Miss before NSD. Its contents however were unknown until a few weeks ago. Ole Miss refused to release the specifics until the Friday after Art Briles was fired.

And a lot of folks in the media including the likes of Paul Finebaum that was defending Hugh Freeze when the allegations first surfaced started calling out Ole Miss for lying to everyone around NSD saying this was nothing serious and that most of it was before Freeze or about women's basketball. That turned out to be a LIE. The most serious allegations were from the Freeze era.

And fyi, you're sounding like an Ole Miss fanboy regurgitating all this propaganda.
 
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Like I said, I'm not overly concerned. I think this one will go the distance. But as secking reiterated, if you want a pretty good indicator of where a kid is leaning at the time, follow the visits. Things change with these kids fast, and it's not an infallible indicator at all, but most of these kids aren't going to these places out of their own pockets on unofficials unless there is more than a passing interest. That's why I feel better about our CURRENT chances with recruits like Higgins, Holloman, Chandler, Cam Akers, and Emory Jones than Trey Smith or Jordan Williams.

A good barometer for Smith will be where he is on September 24th. If he is in Oxford to see Ole Miss (who will probably be 1-2) play Georgia instead of in Knoxville to watch Tennessee (who should be undefeated) play Florida (who should also be undefeated) then we can probably forget about it... but I am betting he will be in K'ville.
 
A good barometer for Smith will be where he is on September 24th. If he is in Oxford to see Ole Miss (who will probably be 1-2) play Georgia instead of in Knoxville to watch Tennessee (who should be undefeated) play Florida (who should also be undefeated) then we can probably forget about it... but I am betting he will be in K'ville.

Agree. The Florida game could possibly be the loudest ever at Neyland. This will be an amazing game day experience for any recruit that attends, especially if we win.
 
Wrong, again.

The LOA was dropped on Ole Miss right before signing day (and if you ask rebel fans, on purpose).

The two year investigation was about Tunsil, not a 'new' one. Miller had already given them all his financial records as well, texts, phone records, etc. Tunsil finally just admitted the truth on draft night. I do believe the Treadwell recruitment is even dirtier than Tunsil, but no one on that side is squealing.

As I said, OM lands the big fish in Jan/Feb, go look at ALL of the classes under Freeze. All the big ones are last minute guys.......I'll wait
I think maybe he's referring to the fact that everyone was thinking the investigation was over until draft night. It probably was but after that night NCAA had to go check out the money changing hands all over again. That being on national TV, I don't see how this doesn't get very serious for the Rebels! If they do not make an example of OM on this, then it will get crazy with the amount of cheating that will go on. If this is all that happens to you when cheating to that magnitude, then the risk-reward factor leans toward go ahead and do it.

Everyone knew what the deal was when they landed that class! The last several years prior to then OM had an average ranking of 26 if I remember correctly. Plus me personally am not a fan of Freeze, I think he is fake as hell. JMO but in the beginning he tweeted that none of the infractions had anything to do with his regime, don't think we will see anymore of those. Sorry for the rant but if these guys do not get hammered then there is no need for the NCAA to investigate anyone.














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The 11 sounds a lot worse than it is, it's basically only 2-3 a year. Most programs start August 1st with only 82 or so on scholly anyway because of off season attrition unless you are Bama and have to cut guys to get down to 85. I agree 100% on the schedule, they could easily start 1-3.

Also, I don't think you can count attrition toward NCAA imposed scholarship reductions.
 
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I think maybe he's referring to the fact that everyone was thinking the investigation was over until draft night. It probably was but after that night NCAA had to go check out the money changing hands all over again. That being on national TV, I don't see how this doesn't get very serious for the Rebels! If they do not make an example of OM on this, then it will get crazy with the amount of cheating that will go on. If this is all that happens to you when cheating to that magnitude, then the risk-reward factor leans toward go ahead and do it.

Everyone knew what the deal was when they landed that class! The last several years prior to then OM had an average ranking of 26 if I remember correctly. Plus me personally am not a fan of Freeze, I think he is fake as hell. JMO but in the beginning he tweeted that none of the infractions had anything to do with his regime, don't think we will see anymore of those. Sorry for the rant but if these guys do not get hammered then there is no need for the NCAA to investigate anyone.

`

Everyone knew it, well except OM fans and apparently the NCAA. Yeah, who else can't see a kid from Chicago go to OM that still has KKK rallies on campus? NCAA is toothless, they only punish those who are honest and turn themselves in. They don't want anyone rocking the cash boat that is TV money. The first paragraph is what has happened in the SECw since Cam. Wild Wild West. NCAA actually made up a rule for Cam. The rule was the prospect NOR his family (parents, siblings, etc) and coaches could receive or ASK for benefits. Cecil Newton was proven to be shopping his son around, to which Cam said, oh, I didn't know and the NCAA said, well, ok. NCAA ignored their own rule and said, the prospect didn't know so it's ok then came back and revised it again saying it's not ok but the Cam situation is already over.

Name any other player in the history of NCAA investigations where they suspended a player and ONE day later reinstated him... BTW, that NCAA compliance employee that helped in the case now Works for AU in their 'compliance department'. Coincidence?
 
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Also, I don't think you can count attrition toward NCAA imposed scholarship reductions.

Who said you could? I said after attrition, you normally only have 82 on scholly anyway so giving up those 3 isn't a big deal to OM, they will only give an academic scholly to a prospect anyway like they did with 'Precious', Tunsil's GF.
 
Who said you could? I said after attrition, you normally only have 82 on scholly anyway so giving up those 3 isn't a big deal to OM, they will only give an academic scholly to a prospect anyway like they did with 'Precious', Tunsil's GF.

...but in that hypothetical, you know for the following class they would not be able to replace those three? They would be counting down reductions from the 82, not the full 85.
 
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Who said you could? I said after attrition, you normally only have 82 on scholly anyway so giving up those 3 isn't a big deal to OM, they will only give an academic scholly to a prospect anyway like they did with 'Precious', Tunsil's GF.

...and also, I'm sure you are aware of the 'Bear Bryant Rule' too, right? Any college football player who is on a scholarship must be on a football scholarship in order to keep unscrupulous schools from circumventing scholarship limits. This would definitely be enforced when that involved an NCAA committee on infractions imposed penalty of scholarship reductions. I'm sure you were just joking, though. Everybody who follows recruiting knows the 'Bear Bryant Rule'.
 
The 11 sounds a lot worse than it is, it's basically only 2-3 a year. Most programs start August 1st with only 82 or so on scholly anyway because of off season attrition unless you are Bama and have to cut guys to get down to 85. I agree 100% on the schedule, they could easily start 1-3.

We lose 2-3 spots a year, are you so blasé about the impact? :acute:
 
We lose 2-3 spots a year, are you so blasé about the impact? :acute:

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think he understands that those 11 scholarship losses that Ole Miss has self imposed will be on top of whatever attrition they accrue; not in lieu of it. Is that enough to crush a program? No but if the NCAA were to increase the scholarship losses to 20? (I think a distinct possibility) Then it might. Ole Miss doesn't sign a top 10 class every year and like most teams they do suffer a lot of attrition. If a bowl ban were to be added as well, then that will also reduce their allure to recruits. The most important change, however, is that they will be on probation and that will hopefully cramp their style. I don't see them recruiting at the rate they have been unless they can take shortcuts.
 
Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think he understands that those 11 scholarship losses that Ole Miss has self imposed will be on top of whatever attrition they accrue; not in lieu of it. Is that enough to crush a program? No but if the NCAA were to increase the scholarship losses to 20? (I think a distinct possibility) Then it might. Ole Miss doesn't sign a top 10 class every year and like most teams they do suffer a lot of attrition. If a bowl ban were to be added as well, then that will also reduce their allure to recruits. The most important change, however, is that they will be on probation and that will hopefully cramp their style. I don't see them recruiting at the rate they have been unless they can take shortcuts.

Losing spots hurt USC and Penn State and would hurt us. :loco:
 
Who said you could? I said after attrition, you normally only have 82 on scholly anyway so giving up those 3 isn't a big deal to OM, they will only give an academic scholly to a prospect anyway like they did with 'Precious', Tunsil's GF.

So losing 3, plus 3 more doesn't hurt?
 
Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think he understands that those 11 scholarship losses that Ole Miss has self imposed will be on top of whatever attrition they accrue; not in lieu of it. Is that enough to crush a program? No but if the NCAA were to increase the scholarship losses to 20? (I think a distinct possibility) Then it might. Ole Miss doesn't sign a top 10 class every year and like most teams they do suffer a lot of attrition. If a bowl ban were to be added as well, then that will also reduce their allure to recruits. The most important change, however, is that they will be on probation and that will hopefully cramp their style. I don't see them recruiting at the rate they have been unless they can take shortcuts.


Ok, let me try this a different way. I used the data from OM and their own sanctions being offered. They had 15 seniors this year and signed 26, thus oversigning by 11. The sanctions they are offering is 11 reductions as follows:

2015-2016 (1) (84)
2016-2017 (2) (83)
2017-2018 (4) (81)
2018-2019 (4) (81)

By those numbers, do you see that they won't be more than at most 4 players short, not 11 in a given year? They can still have 81 on scholly in any given year. Most schools are around that number anyway thus why you hear of walk ons getting a scholly. They oversigned this year fully knowing their plan (imo). The way they would be hit the hardest is they added the numbers up each year like they did with USC or highly restricted signing numbers per year like they did at USC, Still, for the years listed above, if you take away 3 a year, you still get 22+22+22+26 this year adds up to 92 as I know a few went pro early this year. Ole Miss isn't dumb and probably had their compliance, lawyers, and admin try to 'work' around their 'sacrifice' which as you see, isn't much. They aren't offering being at 74 at year four perhaps even grayshirting guys the last year promising a scholly the following year.

You mentioned the Paul Bryant Rule, do you think I know the Paul Bryant Rule? Here is the thing, then you also know you are allotted walk ons. NCAA mandates a 105 limit of players, and the walk ons can and do use financial aid, so, very conceivable that 'preferred walk on' is getting financial help as well. Walk ons normally play in some capacity on every team, not all 20 or so, but a few. Mostly used for practice and depth at practice.

My smoking dog buddy, Butchna mentioned missing those 2-3 scholarships. I don't recall seeing a game where all 85 guys played in one single game, I'm sure it has happened somewhere/sometime, I don't recall it. For example, UGA was at 69 scholarships in the 2012 SECCG against Bama according to the CBS crew.

What should happen? Ncaa grows a pair and lowers the boom restricting more scholarships each year and capping the class size and forcing Freeze's resignation. Wishful thinking but hope it happens.

Last thing, I mentioned Miller had already turned Tunsil in including bank statements for the $800 he could prove by bank statements, etc. You said it was false, it is included in the LOA so they obviously already had the financial records. The first 6 allegations all related to Tunsil.

1. On multiple occasions, cars were allegedly loaned for an impermissable period to two players. It's been previously confirmed that Cannon Motors in Oxford loaned cars to Laremy Tunsil. Level I

2.Ole Miss compliance staff allegedly failed to monitor the loaner car situation. Staffers allegedly learned of an improper loan in October of 2014 and didn't do anything about, making that player ineligible for six subsequent games he played in.Level II

3.A booster allegedly gave $800 cash to Tunsil's stepfather. Level I

4.A booster allegedly provided impermissible lodging to a player on multiple occasions. Level I

5.Assistant coach Chris Kiffin allegedly provided two nights of impermissible lodging.Level III

6.Kiffin allegedly arranged for free meals and free nights at a hotel for a recruits family members. Level II
 
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Not gonna quote that whole mess or take the time to read it all but once again, you cannot count attrition toward scholarship reductions. Your numbers are assuming no attrition at all. Attrition cannot be replaced. There is no way they would have 81 players on scholarship in year 4 of this... and there is no way the NCAA won't add to their reductions either. I mentioned the Bear Bryant Rule because you suggested that they could put football prospects on academic scholarships which I'm sure you knew was wrong.
 
Not gonna quote that whole mess or take the time to read it all but once again, you cannot count attrition toward scholarship reductions. Your numbers are assuming no attrition at all. Attrition cannot be replaced. There is no way they would have 81 players on scholarship in year 4 of this... and there is no way the NCAA won't add to their reductions either. I mentioned the Bear Bryant Rule because you suggested that they could put football prospects on academic scholarships which I'm sure you knew was wrong.

Ole Miss put his GF on scholarship, his brother on scholarship as well so yes, it was a joke.

You are assuming they limit the signing class and maybe they will, they did to USC. If they don't, they absolutely can replace attrition, as long as they don't go above 81. Doesn't matter how many they sign as long as they don't go above 81. Oversigning is what they do, heck, they signed 39 players in one class, yep, 39. Do you not think there is a reason the 25 rule was implemented? Answer: OM
 
Ole Miss put his GF on scholarship, his brother on scholarship as well so yes, it was a joke.

You are assuming they limit the signing class and maybe they will, they did to USC. If they don't, they absolutely can replace attrition, as long as they don't go above 81. Doesn't matter how many they sign as long as they don't go above 81. Oversigning is what they do, heck, they signed 39 players in one class, yep, 39. Do you not think there is a reason the 25 rule was implemented? Answer: OM

They always do that or else there is no point to the penalty.
 
They always do that or else there is no point to the penalty.

Thank you, you just proved my point. This is what OM offered, not what the NCAA gave. IF the NCAA accepts it, (which I've kept saying) there really is no point because it would be the same as only 4 schollys and OM basically gets away with a hand slap. They have the evidence to bury OM, but they had it with Miami as well yet they managed to screw that up too not to mention they have proof of 'lack of institutional control' at UNC. Yet, crickets...
 
Thank you, you just proved my point. This is what OM offered, not what the NCAA gave. IF the NCAA accepts it, (which I've kept saying) there really is no point because it would be the same as only 4 schollys and OM basically gets away with a hand slap. They have the evidence to bury OM, but they had it with Miami as well yet they managed to screw that up too not to mention they have proof of 'lack of institutional control' at UNC. Yet, crickets...

I see... We may not have been on the same page.
 
Ok, let me try this a different way. I used the data from OM and their own sanctions being offered. They had 15 seniors this year and signed 26, thus oversigning by 11. The sanctions they are offering is 11 reductions as follows:

2015-2016 (1) (84)
2016-2017 (2) (83)
2017-2018 (4) (81)
2018-2019 (4) (81)

By those numbers, do you see that they won't be more than at most 4 players short, not 11 in a given year? They can still have 81 on scholly in any given year. Most schools are around that number anyway thus why you hear of walk ons getting a scholly. They oversigned this year fully knowing their plan (imo). The way they would be hit the hardest is they added the numbers up each year like they did with USC or highly restricted signing numbers per year like they did at USC, Still, for the years listed above, if you take away 3 a year, you still get 22+22+22+26 this year adds up to 92 as I know a few went pro early this year. Ole Miss isn't dumb and probably had their compliance, lawyers, and admin try to 'work' around their 'sacrifice' which as you see, isn't much. They aren't offering being at 74 at year four perhaps even grayshirting guys the last year promising a scholly the following year.

You mentioned the Paul Bryant Rule, do you think I know the Paul Bryant Rule? Here is the thing, then you also know you are allotted walk ons. NCAA mandates a 105 limit of players, and the walk ons can and do use financial aid, so, very conceivable that 'preferred walk on' is getting financial help as well. Walk ons normally play in some capacity on every team, not all 20 or so, but a few. Mostly used for practice and depth at practice.

My cat buddy, Butchna mentioned missing those 2-3 scholarships. I don't recall seeing a game where all 85 guys played in one single game, I'm sure it has happened somewhere/sometime, I don't recall it. For example, UGA was at 69 scholarships in the 2012 SECCG against Bama according to the CBS crew.

What should happen? Ncaa grows a pair and lowers the boom restricting more scholarships each year and capping the class size and forcing Freeze's resignation. Wishful thinking but hope it happens.

Last thing, I mentioned Miller had already turned Tunsil in including bank statements for the $800 he could prove by bank statements, etc. You said it was false, it is included in the LOA so they obviously already had the financial records. The first 6 allegations all related to Tunsil.

1. On multiple occasions, cars were allegedly loaned for an impermissable period to two players. It's been previously confirmed that Cannon Motors in Oxford loaned cars to Laremy Tunsil. Level I

2.Ole Miss compliance staff allegedly failed to monitor the loaner car situation. Staffers allegedly learned of an improper loan in October of 2014 and didn't do anything about, making that player ineligible for six subsequent games he played in.Level II

3.A booster allegedly gave $800 cash to Tunsil's stepfather. Level I

4.A booster allegedly provided impermissible lodging to a player on multiple occasions. Level I

5.Assistant coach Chris Kiffin allegedly provided two nights of impermissible lodging.Level III

6.Kiffin allegedly arranged for free meals and free nights at a hotel for a recruits family members. Level II

Lot of words to quote to get to my point. :pinch: EVERY YEAR it's a scrounge fest to make room for a suitable amount of incoming talent. Saban has to "medically retire" some perfectly healthy talented players to replenish his crop. Take 3 out that equation, and even he misses out on some potentially difference making talent or at worst, the depth that keeps that particular machine churning. Programs without that margin of error? Devastating. :thud:

Numbers and stats are illuminating...but you gotta add & subtract the right ones. :hi:
 
They're following the visits. I know a lot of it has to do with geography but he's been to Ole Miss 4 times since 1st of April and to UT 0 during that same time span. Hubbs and co. still seem positive and after the Richmond recruitment, I wouldn't count Jones out at all. But I'd feel a whole lot better about our chances here if he could make it to campus a time or two.

I would go to Oxford a lot too. The bagmen are outstanding.
 
I would go to Oxford a lot too. The bagmen are outstanding.

And before anybody starts blasting me for saying that. If a kid keeps going to a school that is a known bunch of cheaters. Then he either doesn't care what anybody thinks about taking money, or he is just stupid for not understanding the consequences.
 

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