'18 TN OL Jerome Carvin (UT signee)

#228
#228
Catbone said:
Does that mean our staff is really happy with our current lbs?
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We got 3 in the last class and hardly ever use more than 2 on the field at once anymore. I don't see why some people think taking just one or two LBs in the next class is all that surprising.

We need to beef up the DL and add talent to the secondary more than we need a 3rd LB
 
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#229
#229
Darth_Shiveman said:
We got 3 in the last class and hardly ever use more than 2 on the field at once anymore. I don't see why some people think taking just one or two LBs in the next class is all that surprising.

We need to beef up the DL and add talent to the secondary more than we need a 3rd LB
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I don't think it's the long term plan to go with a4-2-5 look on defense.

The only reason we did last season was due to numbers personnel wise.

We do need numbers at linebacker, and good ones at that.
 
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#230
#230
jakez4ut said:
I don't think it's the long term plan to go with a4-2-5 look on defense.

The only reason we did last season was due to numbers personnel wise.

We do need numbers at linebacker, and good ones at that.
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I agree that we need good linebackers. I think teams play 4-2-5 for reasons other than depth though. There aren't a lot of teams lining up in 2-2-1s and running it down our throats anymore. Teams are running out three or four wideouts a significant portion of the time.
 
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#231
#231
Darth_Shiveman said:
We got 3 in the last class and hardly ever use more than 2 on the field at once anymore. I don't see why some people think taking just one or two LBs in the next class is all that surprising.

We need to beef up the DL and add talent to the secondary more than we need a 3rd LB
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Definitely agree. We seem to be doing well on the DL but really need some more work at DB.
 
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#232
#232
delfonic said:
I agree that we need good linebackers. I think teams play 4-2-5 for reasons other than depth though. There aren't a lot of teams lining up in 2-2-1s and running it down our throats anymore. Teams are running out three or four wideouts a significant portion of the time.
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Agree, but that's not why we ran it last year, and its not what shoop has gone with traditionally with his defenses.

We're looking for speed at olb, that can stop the run, cover and rush the passer...

Which is why I think there may be some credence to the notion you might see some movement at certain positions... Safety & nickel specifically, convert to olb...

That's just a hunch. Is rather see us land a couple good prospects at olb....

I think we're doing ok actually at cb...
 
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#234
#234
Catbone said:
Definitely agree. We seem to be doing well on the DL but really need some more work at DB.
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Warren can hopefully change that. If he has the secondary playing good this fall then I think we get some more looks from bigger prospects.
 
#236
#236
jakez4ut said:
I don't think it's the long term plan to go with a4-2-5 look on defense.

The only reason we did last season was due to numbers personnel wise.

We do need numbers at linebacker, and good ones at that.
Click to expand...

I'm not really sure what you mean about the 4-2-5 thing. Sure, our base is/has been/likely will be 4-3 for the forseeable future, but we don't have much reason to believe we'll be seeing less of the nickel packages. It's just how things go these days: the offense puts a third receiver on the field and you need a 5th DB or a hybrid LB/DB type guy to make sure there's no glaring mismatch.

In previous stops, Shoop has used more 4-3 looks even against 11 personnel, but we didn't see any of that last year even when all of our LBs were healthy at the beginning of the season. He's even used a kind of hybrid SS/OLB at times in his past stops, which might explain why we've trended towards taking so many Safeties and WLB types the past two classes and currently are only looking for 1-2 LBs. It really wouldn't surprise me if we see Shoop try to use a guy like Gray or Brendan Harris this way in the future.

Regardless, we have a LOT of LBs on the roster, and many of them still young. Even if we go to using 3 LBs more often, our outlooks for the next three years with only the LBs on the roster (and no redshirts or players at other positions moving to LB) look like this:

2017
WLB: McDowell (Sr.), Berry (Sr.), Sapp (RS. So), Reid (Fr.) Page (Fr)
MLB: Kirkland (Jr.) Bituli (So.), Jumper (RS Jr.) Ignont (Fr)
SLB: Smith (RS So), Bituli, Jumper, or Ignont

2018:
WLB: Sapp (RS. Jr), Reid (So) Page (So)
MLB: Kirkland (Sr) Bituli (Jr), Jumper (RS Sr) Ignont (So)
SLB: Smith (RS Jr), Bituli, Jumper, or Ignont

2019:
WLB: Sapp (Rs Sr), Reid (Jr) Page (Jr)
MLB: Bituli (Jr), Ignont (Jr)
SLB: Smith (RS Sr), Bituli, or Ignont


All things considered, that's not a bad 3 year outlook. I don't think anybody would argue that there isn't enough talent to get good LB play out of that group. Coaching may be an issue, but talent shouldn't be.

IMO our LB corps is in a position where the coaches can be thinking quality over quantity for the 2018 class. Maybe in 2019 we need to take 3-4 for things to even out, but I don't think it's a necessity that we add 3-4 guys this year.
 
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#237
#237
Darth_Shiveman said:
I'm not really sure what you mean about the 4-2-5 thing. Sure, our base is/has been/likely will be 4-3 for the forseeable future, but we don't have much reason to believe we'll be seeing less of the nickel packages. It's just how things go these days: the offense puts a third receiver on the field and you need a 5th DB or a hybrid LB/DB type guy to make sure there's no glaring mismatch.

In previous stops, Shoop has used more 4-3 looks even against 11 personnel, but we didn't see any of that last year even when all of our LBs were healthy at the beginning of the season. He's even used a kind of hybrid SS/OLB at times in his past stops, which might explain why we've trended towards taking so many Safeties and WLB types the past two classes and currently are only looking for 1-2 LBs. It really wouldn't surprise me if we see Shoop try to use a guy like Gray or Brendan Harris this way in the future.

Regardless, we have a LOT of LBs on the roster, and many of them still young. Even if we go to using 3 LBs more often, our outlooks for the next three years with only the LBs on the roster (and no redshirts or players at other positions moving to LB) look like this:

2017
WLB: McDowell (Sr.), Berry (Sr.), Sapp (RS. So), Reid (Fr.) Page (Fr)
MLB: Kirkland (Jr.) Bituli (So.), Jumper (RS Jr.) Ignont (Fr)
SLB: Smith (RS So), Bituli, Jumper, or Ignont

2018:
WLB: Sapp (RS. Jr), Reid (So) Page (So)
MLB: Kirkland (Sr) Bituli (Jr), Jumper (RS Sr) Ignont (So)
SLB: Smith (RS Jr), Bituli, Jumper, or Ignont

2019:
WLB: Sapp (Rs Sr), Reid (Jr) Page (Jr)
MLB: Bituli (Jr), Ignont (Jr)
SLB: Smith (RS Sr), Bituli, or Ignont


All things considered, that's not a bad 3 year outlook. I don't think anybody would argue that there isn't enough talent to get good LB play out of that group. Coaching may be an issue, but talent shouldn't be.

IMO our LB corps is in a position where the coaches can be thinking quality over quantity for the 2018 class. Maybe in 2019 we need to take 3-4 for things to even out, but I don't think it's a necessity that we add 3-4 guys this year.
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Don't disagree with any of that, especially the point about gray.... Could definitely see potential for him converting to lb/hybrid role...

My only point was given shoops history and our personnel issues last year at the position, we ran a lot more nickel based on limited options elsewhere versus doing so because of actual matchup advantages...

I know we'll see plenty of nickel...I just dont think it's going to, or should be, the basis the defense is built around.... Push comes to shove, I think shoop wants to get back to the 4-3, and get back to his aggressive style of play...

All that said, if w continue to get good defensive linemen, and build real depth, that provides a whole lot flexibility to get creative in the back 7....
 
#238
#238
jakez4ut said:
Don't disagree with any of that, especially the point about gray.... Could definitely see potential for him converting to lb/hybrid role...

My only point was given shoops history and our personnel issues last year at the position, we ran a lot more nickel based on limited options elsewhere versus doing so because of actual matchup advantages...

I know we'll see plenty of nickel...I just dont think it's going to, or should be, the basis the defense is built around.... Push comes to shove, I think shoop wants to get back to the 4-3, and get back to his aggressive style of play...

All that said, if w continue to get good defensive linemen, and build real depth, that provides a whole lot flexibility to get creative in the back 7....
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I agree with most of that...but I'm just not really sure what exactly Shoop "wants" to do on defense. We never saw him try to run 4-3 sets against 11 personnel even when our LBs were healthy or in the Spring in 2016 or this year.

Maybe it's personnel issues, but I don't see how what we have on this roster is any worse than the group of LBs he had when he was first hired at Vandy and ran mostly 4-3 looks or looks with a "Star" OLB there.

It just seems to me like we'd have seen him trying to do a bit more installing it and seeing what his guys are capable of in those spots if his plan was to go back to that in a major way.
 
#240
#240
Ethan Hooper said:
I think Gray stays at safety, but I agree on the rest. I think Page could turn into a very good linebacker for us too.
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I actually think you're both kind of right...I honestly think Grey will play the Star position that shoop is so known for utilizing...didn't see it last year but I just have a feeling we'll start to see it more this year...and I think Harris is another player that is destined for that role
 
#241
#241
Darth_Shiveman said:
I agree with most of that...but I'm just not really sure what exactly Shoop "wants" to do on defense. We never saw him try to run 4-3 sets against 11 personnel even when our LBs were healthy or in the Spring in 2016 or this year.

Maybe it's personnel issues, but I don't see how what we have on this roster is any worse than the group of LBs he had when he was first hired at Vandy and ran mostly 4-3 looks or looks with a "Star" OLB there.

It just seems to me like we'd have seen him trying to do a bit more installing it and seeing what his guys are capable of in those spots if his plan was to go back to that in a major way.
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i just don't think last year, especially as the year wore on injury wise, anyone got a real idea of what he wanted to do with this personnel group.

and it didn't start off great in the first place at LB.

but based on what he has done in the past at Vandy and PSU, he does run base 4-3, will go to nickel in situational football and likes to pressure the O line and QB. make them make decisions they may not want to make....dictate, and make them react.

last year, all i'm saying is, personnel wise, it really got away from him. and LB wasn't set to begin with, with JRM fairly questionable with this shoulder from day 1.

he goes down, Sapp went down on St, DK Jr went down, Mcdowell missed time......anywho...

you're right, we don't know what he's all about at TN. but if i go by what we've seen the past, we'll see more of a true 4-3 going forward, instead of a 4-2-5 base.
 
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#242
#242
jakez4ut said:
i just don't think last year, especially as the year wore on injury wise, anyone got a real idea of what he wanted to do with this personnel group.

and it didn't start off great in the first place at LB.

but based on what he has done in the past at Vandy and PSU, he does run base 4-3, will go to nickel in situational football and likes to pressure the O line and QB. make them make decisions they may not want to make....dictate, and make them react.

last year, all i'm saying is, personnel wise, it really got away from him. and LB wasn't set to begin with, with JRM fairly questionable with this shoulder from day 1.

he goes down, Sapp went down on St, DK Jr went down, Mcdowell missed time......anywho...

you're right, we don't know what he's all about at TN. but if i go by what we've seen the past, we'll see more of a true 4-3 going forward, instead of a 4-2-5 base.
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Agree with pretty much all of this. Shoop historically is much more of a 4-3 guy than a 4-2-5 based on his days at PSU and Vandy. A ton of questions on that side of the ball heading into the season, including the scheme. Going to be an interesting Fall camp to get a feel for what is going on.
 
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#243
#243
Montrell Hardy said:
Agree with pretty much all of this. Shoop historically is much more of a 4-3 guy than a 4-2-5 based on his days at PSU and Vandy. A ton of questions on that side of the ball heading into the season, including the scheme. Going to be an interesting Fall camp to get a feel for what is going on.
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agreed. and i think if there's one advantage to having gone what we went thru last year, he should have a fairly decent idea of what he can/should expect from most of the returning guys, and hopefully that will help some of the personnel decisions...should have to go a layer or two deep again....

there's talent up front, it's still a little thin. there's talent at LB, but also a bit thin. we have depth in the secondary, but maybe some question marks at CB and the other safety spot. all in all, i think we'll see maybe the most improvement from the secondary. there is talent back there.....

health in the front 7 is still important to do the things i believe he wants to do scheme wise.
 
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#244
#244
"Heading west to Memphis, Tennessee made another good impression with offensive lineman Jerome Carvin last weekend. Things appear to be trending Tennessee's way at the moment, and some we have spoken to believe Carvin could do something in the next couple of weeks. Tennessee will be watching Carvin closely to see if the 4-star lineman ends up making a trip to Alabama in mid-July after the dead period (July 10). After three visits to Knoxville this spring, a visit to Alabama could be the only thing that stands between Carvin’s potential commitment to the Vols"

-VQ
 
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#245
#245
Tennessee made another good impression with offensive lineman Jerome Carvin last weekend. Things appear to be trending Tennessee's way at the moment, and some we have spoken to believe Carvin could do something in the next couple of weeks. Tennessee will be watching Carvin closely to see if the 4-star lineman ends up making a trip to Alabama in mid-July after the dead period (July 10). After three visits to Knoxville this spring, a visit to Alabama could be the only thing that stands between Carvin’s potential commitment to the Vols.
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--Hubbs
 
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#248
#248
Need to get this kid in the fold. Complete monster. Man him and Mays in this class and then next year with Lampley, Wright, etc.. and then Tucker / Mays. Jeez our OL recruiting could be insane in the coming years.
 
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#249
#249
Montrell Hardy said:
Need to get this kid in the fold. Complete monster. Man him and Mays in this class and then next year with Lampley, Wright, etc.. and then Tucker / Mays. Jeez our OL recruiting could be insane in the coming years.
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MH do you see Carvin as a guard.Would be fun to see him and Cade on the same side.
 
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