$200 Million in Debt, Tennessee's Dave Hart Hopes to Stop the Bleeding

#151
#151
this appears to me to be an excuse for our hiring process, begging boosters to step back up and to lobby for tax breaks from the municipalities involved in stealing from the gravy train. Servicing the debt isn't a real problem at the income levels we're talking about. Pissing away money by hiring losers, placating others and wanton spending on bullshiz athletics are the problems.
 
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#152
#152
Vercingetorix said:
New outdoor fields are not exactly a high dollar project. I guess a new dorm is on the wish list, but considering what else Hamilton spent money on, surely the situation isn't that dire. Can't imagine our facilities as they are are putting us at a disadvantage.
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athletic housing is seen as trailing kensucky, and outdoor practice facilities as trailing the dookies. if we are behind them we surely are behind the cream of the SEC.

in general, fan-centric spending has been way overboard while player-centric spending has lagged.

$200mil debt with $1.5mil reserve, trying to compete in the strongest conference in the country, and powers that be (AD, academics, government) not on the same page as far as pulling in the same direction so that the football cash cow can benefit all -- now more than ever UT needs our financial assistance.

but before we all start writing checks, let's ponder a few questions...

this is an enormous mess, maybe 15 years in the making. sure MH is a convenient scapegoat and undoubtedly a player, but could even he have singularly created this cluster eff? to what extent did the other household names (cheek, martin, haslam) play a role? is DH, in his twilight years, going to make the UT resurrection his greatest triumph before riding into the sunset? or is DH part of the problem and simply trying to keep the boat steady until it is time to start cashing retirement checks?

more importantly, what is it going to take to effect a solution? depending on who the villains are, throwing more VF donations at the problem, or even throwing a high profile coach, may not be the fix. things may have to be allowed to get bad enough that a major housecleaning is in order.
 
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#153
#153
Where did the money go to create $200M debt?
Spending on facilities by previous AD - About $200M spent just on football facilities
Stadium Renovation Phase I - 2006 = $26M
Stadium Renovation Phase II - 2008 = $27.4M
Stadium Renovation Phase III - 2010 = $83M
Stadium Renovation Phases IV & V - Part of Future Master Plan
Football Training Center - 2012 = $45M
All this does not include additional facility costs for other sports
Looks like an every two year schedule to break the bank

Paying off past coaches is a just a drop in the bucket.......................

Williams-Brice stadium at USCe is not even owned by the university - it's part of the state fairgrounds owned by the stae and just rented for games
 
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#155
#155
volgr said:
If it will still be here well after Hart then why do mindless dupes keep throwing money into the Knoxville money pit, overseen by Mr. Hart, while the returns on that money continue to diminish? Hart needs to show me something, anything, that resembles the program is trying to do something constructive. The coaching search only reinforced what myself and many others think about Dave Hart.
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I guess it all depends on what you consider returns.

It's hard for me to blame DH for too much, he's only been on the job for a little over a year. You don't walk in, assess and turn around a $100 million plus organization in a few weeks. His success is far from being judged.

My idea of success is an athletic program that is competitive, graduates student athletes and represents my alma mater and the state of Tennessee well. I enjoyed the '98 NC as much as anyone, but the other things are far more important to me. Anyone who is solely focused winning and ignores the rest should take up the NFL. That's what it is designed for.

I have no problems at all with the coaching search. Most if not all of the negativity of the search itself was created here and in the media by rumor and speculation. The AD had no obligation to offer the fan base a daily update on the state of the search. In fact, it would have been unwise.

Of course, if you simply didn't like the hire, fair enough. I do like it. CBJ has said and done everything to lead me to believe he will lead a program that meets my standards for success.
 
#157
#157
hopefully hart can convince a bunch of fatcat boosters to pump in a ton of cash to get this $200 million deficit wiped out in a couple of years---just name some building after them if they give enough money.
 
#158
#158
I think this is all way overblown.

Yes Tennessee has $200mil in debt. BUT, their revenues last year were $106mil. So to put that in perspective, if someone making $106,000 a year bought a home with a mortgage of $200,000 would you consider that to be a huge debt? No way!

The other thing is that borrowing costs are VERY low at the moment so all of the new projects will have attractive interest rates, and all of the old debt has been refinanced. Georgia Tech has gone through the same thing. They spent a ton of money on a new indoor football facility, new basketball arena, new training facilities, etc.. But because interest rates are so low right now, over the next 20 years this will prove to have been beneficial.
 
#159
#159
if u were ever going to borrow money now is the time. rates are low. when they spike back up this all will be paid for and they can then invest when the returns are higher.
 
#160
#160
Also, in 2011, LSU and Alabama reported debts over 200 million according to ESPN. So, as long as we get back on the winning side of things, the money will come to us just like it has to them.

Rocky Top Buzz also makes a very good analogy. It the grand scheme, it not as much money to Tennessee as it is to us.
 
#163
#163
tm3 said:
in general, fan-centric spending has been way overboard while player-centric spending has lagged.
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How much more do we need to spend on players? Should we be providing servants and chauffeurs for each of them?
 
#164
#164
:thumbsup:
rocky top buzz said:
I think this is all way overblown.

Yes Tennessee has $200mil in debt. BUT, their revenues last year were $106mil. So to put that in perspective, if someone making $106,000 a year bought a home with a mortgage of $200,000 would you consider that to be a huge debt? No way!

The other thing is that borrowing costs are VERY low at the moment so all of the new projects will have attractive interest rates, and all of the old debt has been refinanced. Georgia Tech has gone through the same thing. They spent a ton of money on a new indoor football facility, new basketball arena, new training facilities, etc.. But because interest rates are so low right now, over the next 20 years this will prove to have been beneficial.
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Not sure...if 106,000 was already accounted for with other debts and spending...then 200,000 would be a huge debt. the interest on 200mil has gotta be a killer too. You can definately see where this could eat you alive! Buy more hats, shirts, tickets, etc. vol fans! Sounds like its needed
 
#165
#165
I just saw this on the ESPN College Football Live show that I DVR'd from yesterday. This stinks. Time to hit up the Haslam's I guess. Terrible for PR.
 
#166
#166
VoLunTiTan7 said:
I just saw this on the ESPN College Football Live show that I DVR'd from yesterday. This stinks. Time to hit up the Haslam's I guess. Terrible for PR.
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Really...is the light at the end of the tunnel ever NOT going to be a train?
 
#167
#167
SaintLouisVol said:
Of course, if you simply didn't like the hire, fair enough. I do like it. CBJ has said and done everything to lead me to believe he will lead a program that meets my standards for success.
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I don't know if I like the hire or not. Time will tell. What I didn't like was the fiasco of a coaching search after Hart gave his smug presser acting like he had everything under control and we were going to go out and get a proven winner. How many times were we publicly turned down before we finally found our "proven winner"? That same man that brought us that charade of a coaching search will be the same man trying to navigate this program into calmer waters. If you do not have doubts about Dave Hart then you are being blindly ignorant and trusting faith instead of reality.
 
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#168
#168
volgr said:
. . . How many times were we publicly turned down before we finally found our "proven winner"?
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It depends on who and what you believe. I think Strong either turned us down or just played us. Or, maybe he got cold feet. Doesn't really matter in the end.

The others may or may not have simply been inquiries. There's no shame in asking if someone is interested and them saying no. It's certainly preferable to not asking at all.

It's all a game. These guys play the "I'll listen" card all the time. Some may be interested. Others may just be looking to pad their paychecks. It happens in all walks of life. It just doesn't always play out in the media like it does with coaching.

volgr said:
. . .If you do not have doubts about Dave Hart then you are being blindly ignorant and trusting faith instead of reality
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Having doubts is far from "reminds me of Dooley. All talk, no results." I am unsure what sort of results should be expected at this point. Any doubts I have are because we really have no clue how things are going to turn out.

He fired a bad coach having been here a year. Should he have done it sooner? Maybe, but we all know there are five million reasons why he had to try to make it work. What other results should be be expecting?
 
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#169
#169
rocky top buzz said:
I think this is all way overblown.

Yes Tennessee has $200mil in debt. BUT, their revenues last year were $106mil. So to put that in perspective, if someone making $106,000 a year bought a home with a mortgage of $200,000 would you consider that to be a huge debt? No way!

The other thing is that borrowing costs are VERY low at the moment so all of the new projects will have attractive interest rates, and all of the old debt has been refinanced. Georgia Tech has gone through the same thing. They spent a ton of money on a new indoor football facility, new basketball arena, new training facilities, etc.. But because interest rates are so low right now, over the next 20 years this will prove to have been beneficial.
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This...

Way overblown! People see the headline and think "wow--big number". The bigger issue is the reserve not the debt--which is serviceable, as you say, at attractive rates of interest. Who knew people didn't understand basic finance.

In reality is this is piling on and I wish someone from the administration would address it to clear up all the ignorance.
 
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#170
#170
rocky top buzz said:
I think this is all way overblown.

Yes Tennessee has $200mil in debt. BUT, their revenues last year were $106mil. So to put that in perspective, if someone making $106,000 a year bought a home with a mortgage of $200,000 would you consider that to be a huge debt? No way!

The other thing is that borrowing costs are VERY low at the moment so all of the new projects will have attractive interest rates, and all of the old debt has been refinanced. Georgia Tech has gone through the same thing. They spent a ton of money on a new indoor football facility, new basketball arena, new training facilities, etc.. But because interest rates are so low right now, over the next 20 years this will prove to have been beneficial.
Click to expand...

...actually what I wish is that someone would give us all a big STFU so we can move on to the next topic. This is stupid and useless.
 
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#171
#171
Bluetic said:
:thumbsup:

Not sure...if 106,000 was already accounted for with other debts and spending...then 200,000 would be a huge debt. the interest on 200mil has gotta be a killer too. You can definately see where this could eat you alive! Buy more hats, shirts, tickets, etc. vol fans! Sounds like its needed
Click to expand...

No, most people spend up to their income levels, including debt service (mortgage and car payment for most of us). Yes UT should be putting more into reserves but their situation isnt that different than most of us.

imo, UT should finance everything right now to better position themselves for the future.
 
#172
#172
BigPapaVol said:
this appears to me to be an excuse for our hiring process, begging boosters to step back up and to lobby for tax breaks from the municipalities involved in stealing from the gravy train. Servicing the debt isn't a real problem at the income levels we're talking about. Pissing away money by hiring losers, placating others and wanton spending on bullshiz athletics are the problems.
Click to expand...
This pretty much sums it up..
 
#173
#173
$130 million of this is from the stadium renovations, not from all of the buyouts. They are paltry in comparison to the amount spent on the stadium upgrades and facilities improvements. When we get back to winning, starting in Sep 2013, we'll be fine as more money will be flowing back into the program.
 
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