$200 Million in Debt, Tennessee's Dave Hart Hopes to Stop the Bleeding

#103
#103
Sure all the payouts have been tough but arrogance the athletic dept has shown for years toward the average man has dug a huge hole.People lined up for season tickets now you don't need them you can buy single tickets on the street below cost for almost any game. I still have some season tickets but down from the 16 i once had.Let Hart figure it out you treat us like S- -t then you want to come kiss us. The real world doesn't work like that.
 
#105
#105
How bout we post the donation link to the top of every VN page and see if all these armchair ADs put their money where their mouths are?? :dunno:
 
#106
#106
Jake Tate said:
I agree 100%. Media outlets are just looking for something to jump on. They are like piranhas, see a little blood in the water and swarm in for the the kill.

They will release the big "headline" shocker part of the story, but forget to mention that other schools have the same issues. They even said on ESPN about 14-16 schools are making money. Out of 116 schools, less than 15% bring in a profit?

We aren't the only school with debt.

And, we have a sweet new facility and pretty 110,000 person stadium!

BOOM!:rock:
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C1Vol1 said:
This is taken somewhat out of context. While the financial situation of the athletic is suboptimal it is hardly dire. First, The University of Tennessee is a state institution which is implicitly (if not explicitly) backed by the full faith and credit of the State of Tennessee--the state currently carries a credit rating at S&P of AA+, one of the highest in the United States and much higher than most sovereign domains in the world. Second, the athletic department is nowhere near being technically insolvent as assets (including the present value of future revenue streams) are surely many times more than liabilities--including the +200m in serviceable debt. What Tennessee is really facing right now is a cash flow problem for which the administration has already started to address. Do not blow this out of proportion.
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If you don't think this is severe, I'm not sure you understand the impact or implications of crushing debt like this.

It's not profit that is a big deal, it's being able to at least break even, while continuing to add money to your reserve fund... instead of spending that money like you have been.

That's a big deal because UT's has less than $2 million in their reserve fund, while their rivals have TENS OF MILLIONS of dollars in theirs.

The next lowest reserve fund in the SEC is $10 million, and then next up is $25 million, making UT the poorest school in the conference right now. Report: Tennessee athletics department operated at $4 million*deficit | SI Tracking Blog

"Cheek said he's committed to "comprehensive excellence" in both academics and athletics and was willing to work with Hart on financial issues. Since being hired a year ago, Hart has talked frankly about the financial shape of Tennessee's athletic department, which has the lowest reserve fund in the SEC and the highest debt service." University of Tennessee trustees say complaints that administration is obstructing athletics aren't accurate » govolsxtra.com Mobile

UT's primary rivals, Bama and UF, have $80 million and over $75 million in their reserve funds.

If you're interested just in profit, though, 22 schools' athletic departments operated with a profit last year; and these are the 19 public ones (8 just in the SEC):

Ath. Dept. Surplus
Kansas State $20,106,935
Texas $16,609,111
LSU $15,462,427
Alabama $14,195,164
Florida $11,989,355
Michigan $10,621,815
Arkansas $10,524,624
Oklahoma $9,974,916
Ohio State $9,528,952
Okla. State $9,507,375
Texas A&M $8,975,871
Georgia $8,384,182
Oregon $7,125,702
Purdue $6,773,110
Iowa $4,731,395
Miss. State $2,573,373
Nebraska $1,763,272
Kentucky $1,219,181
Illinois $403,425

But of the schools that didn't operate at a profit, most still broke even and managed to sock away money in their reserves.
 
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#109
#109
So now that all the great minds have waxed eloquently on the subject - what are each one of you going to do about it?

Not our problem. It's the two village idiots' problem. They went rogue and played it their way with the BOT signing off. They are counting on Butch to put tails in seats for 3 years until the new SEC/ESPN contract kicks in. If it works the big boosters will not have to step in as much. If it don't, the idiots will be gone when the big boosters have to step in and there will be wholesale changes in how it all works.

My answer has been a "thanks, but no thanks" as it applies to a donation and season tickets. Will always be a loyal fan of the players and hope to be of Jones and the staff. When the two idiots are gone I will be back wth financial support. Not until.
 
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#110
#110
SaintLouisVol said:
How many more games would you attend if they cut prices by 20 percent or so? That hardly seems like the kind of incentive needed to significantly boost ticket sales.
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With the product they are putting on the field today I think it is. You will not see 100.000 fans in 2013 and that is costing the school money.
 
#111
#111
Man, that really sucks, y'all. Sorry to hear about it. But, hey, time changes everything and things are sure to look up again, eventually, for Tennessee.

Remember back when Alabama was deep in the murky depths of national ridicule due to probation, constant coaching changes, Fulmer watching our program and snitching while helping to protect the other 4 or 5 programs that were doing the exact same thing as Alabama, including Tennessee?

We deserved everything we got and Vol fans were so happy and so delighted and reveled in Bama fan's misery like no other. You all seemed to be on top of the world then.

It was like football wonderland for all of you. But, now, look at the state of the VolNation. It's not looking real good at all. Far from being a team and a fanbase that others ridicule and belittle, like Alabama was, people just don't really seem to think at all about Tennessee one way or the other.

Indifference is alarming. Dislike is not good but, indifference is worse. It's like you just don't matter, one way or the other, and no one really cares if you make a comeback or not.

But, don't get down. Maybe Fulmer will come back and lead the team to victory one day.

As a suggestion for improved revenue, try cutting all the stadium seats in half again and with 210,000 capacity, you will make bank next season for sure.
 
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#112
#112
Vols4us said:
My answer has been a "thanks, but no thanks" as it applies to a donation and season tickets. Will always be a loyal fan of the players and hope to be of Jones and the staff. When the two idiots are gone I will be back wth financial support. Not until.
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AMEN!! No way am I giving money to this program when it is run by Dave Hart. Dave Hart was a smug acting SOB as he talked about the coaching search in the Dooley firing presser. He talked the talk but couldn't walk the walk. In a lot of ways, Hart reminds me of Dooley. All talk, no results.
 
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#113
#113
KBVol said:
Wow! And why the hell are releasing this type of negative information about our athletic department the week before national signing day? I know most recruits probably don't understand an interest payment from their own arse, but why leak this out now? We need as much positive right now as possible not this.....
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:hi:

Agree, we do the dumbest stuff. What a bunch of dipsticks over there.
 
#114
#114
"Much of the department’s debt came from a series of expansions to Neyland, followed by a series of improvements in the last seven years that actually reduced capacity and created more premium spaces. Built in three phases between 2006 and 2010, those changes cost more than $130 million."

Since they can't sell more tickets with less seats then the only solution is to double ticket prices.
 
#117
#117
G8R8U2 said:
That's a big deal because UT's has less than $2 million in their reserve fund, while their rivals have TENS OF MILLIONS of dollars in theirs.
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Why, specifically, is this a big deal? We've already renovated or upgraded just about every athletic facility on campus. There's nothing left to buy. How does this put us at an actual competitive disadvantage?

We've got a temporary cash flow problem because Hamilton committed to all these renovations just as football money went in the tank, like a guy who bought a Mercedes right before losing his job. But unlike that guy, nobody's going to repossess the new football facility. The reserves will build up again over the next few years. It's embarrassing but not that big a deal.
 
#118
#118
CtrlAltDel said:
Man, that really sucks, y'all. Sorry to hear about it. But, hey, time changes everything and things are sure to look up again, eventually, for Tennessee.

Remember back when Alabama was deep in the murky depths of national ridicule due to probation, constant coaching changes, Fulmer watching our program and snitching while helping to protect the other 4 or 5 programs that were doing the exact same thing as Alabama, including Tennessee?

We deserved everything we got and Vol fans were so happy and so delighted and reveled in Bama fan's misery like no other. You all seemed to be on top of the world then.

It was like football wonderland for all of you. But, now, look at the state of the VolNation. It's not looking real good at all. Far from being a team and a fanbase that others ridicule and belittle, like Alabama was, people just don't really seem to think at all about Tennessee one way or the other.

Indifference is alarming. Dislike is not good but, indifference is worse. It's like you just don't matter, one way or the other, and no one really cares if you make a comeback or not.

But, don't get down. Maybe Fulmer will come back and lead the team to victory one day.

As a suggestion for improved revenue, try cutting all the stadium seats in half again and with 210,000 capacity, you will make bank next season for sure.
Click to expand...

We welcome rival fans who are here for genuine discussion. We don't have any use for blatant trolls. If you're just coming here to sneer at us, go away.
 
#119
#119
1967 said:
Hamilton was the problem, glad he is gone!!!!!! Hart unlike Hamilton, came to us with experience.
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The person that reports the crime is always the first suspect...seems if Hart survives the mess he inherited he's a keeper. Either way, he's really working to raise money for the program, isnt he? I mean we hear how old the living quarters are one week and how in the hole they are the next. In other words we need to ride the CBJ wave as much as possible so send us money! Also, remember that firing Dools cost a good bit of change. All in all, the jury is still out on Hart, but he is doing his job...imo.
 
#120
#120
volgr said:
AMEN!! No way am I giving money to this program when it is run by Dave Hart. Dave Hart was a smug acting SOB as he talked about the coaching search in the Dooley firing presser. He talked the talk but couldn't walk the walk. In a lot of ways, Hart reminds me of Dooley. All talk, no results.
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I don't have any clue of anyone's propensity to give. But, I have to say that this simply an excuse. The University of Tennessee is far bigger than Dave Hart. It was there well before he was and will be there well after.

I liken your statement to one who refuses to give to his Church because he doesn't like the pastor - as if that fact somehow devalues the Church itself.

I'm guessing you also won't have any problems finding a reason not to give when the next guy comes along.
 
#121
#121
Vercingetorix said:
Why, specifically, is this a big deal? We've already renovated or upgraded just about every athletic facility on campus. There's nothing left to buy. How does this put us at an actual competitive disadvantage?

We've got a temporary cash flow problem because Hamilton committed to all these renovations just as football money went in the tank, like a guy who bought a Mercedes right before losing his job. But unlike that guy, nobody's going to repossess the new football facility. The reserves will build up again over the next few years. It's embarrassing but not that big a deal.
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More than likely, it will be non revenue sports that will feel the effect of this
 
#122
#122
1982Alum said:
With the product they are putting on the field today I think it is. You will not see 100.000 fans in 2013 and that is costing the school money.
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I chose the 20 percent figure for a reason. These numbers are rough, but you'll get the idea.

UT averaged about 80 percent capacity this past season. So, if they cut tickets by 20 percent, they would have to max out in order to generate the same ticket revenue. If they cut it by more than that, they lose money even if they sell out. Of course, you have the additional concession and parking revenues, but I can't see that off-setting the loses.

If they were running half capacity, I might be inclined to agree with you, but at 80 percent, there probably isn't enough room to make a price cut work.

I know that VolNation seems to think that everyone making decisions at UT is an idiot, but there people there and people they consult with that have some experience and expertise. I would be very surprised if they don't review ticket prices regularly and set them a best they know how to maximize income for the program.

The answer to all of the problems is repeated over and over here. Win. Personally, I don't think they even have to win that much. If they can get back to bowls, being in the hunt and at least going into every conference game with a chance to compete hard and maybe pull one off, the vast majority of the fringe fans will regain interest and start coming again.

Dooley's personality put a team on the field that lacked energy. That fact and his in-game coaching style tended to drain the crowds fairly quickly. It wasn't just the losing that was emptying the seats, it was how they were losing and the responses by the coach to the losses.

I think the new guy will totally change the personality of the team and the game-day experience.
 
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#124
#124
SaintLouisVol said:
I chose the 20 percent figure for a reason. These numbers are rough, but you'll get the idea.

UT averaged about 80 percent capacity this past season. So, if they cut tickets by 20 percent, they would have to max out in order to generate the same ticket revenue. If they cut it by more than that, they lose money even if they sell out. Of course, you have the additional concession and parking revenues, but I can't see that off-setting the loses.

If they were running half capacity, I might be inclined to agree with you, but at 80 percent, there probably isn't enough room to make a price cut work.

I know that VolNation seems to think that everyone making decisions at UT is an idiot, but there people there and people they consult with that have some experience and expertise. I would be very surprised if they don't review ticket prices regularly and set them a best they know how to maximize income for the program.

The answer to all of the problems is repeated over and over here. Win. Personally, I don't think they even have to win that much. If they can get back to bowls, being in the hunt and at least going into every conference game with a chance to compete hard and maybe pull one off, the vast majority of the fringe fans will regain interest and start coming again.

Dooley's personality put a team on the field that lacked energy. That fact and his in-game coaching style tended to drain the crowds fairly quickly. It wasn't just the losing that was emptying the seats, it was how they were losing and the responses by the coach to the losses.

I think the new guy will totally change the personality of the team and the game-day experience.
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This. I understand that it will take time to build back to where we were in the 90's. But I want to see a team that fights like hell, doesn't quit, and plays to the maximum of their ability.
 
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