2004 Trojans vs 2001 Hurricanes

Which team would win?

  • Total voters
    0
#26
#26
Ohio Vol said:
Beat me to it.

Heck, people forget that the 2001 Miami team lost all their seniors and a ton of underclassmen to the draft and STILL won a national championship the next year.
Click to expand...
They didn't exactly win the next year. Unless you turned it off after the bogus PI call.
 
#27
#27
kptvol said:
Meh. 2001 Canes are definitely the better team. But if the '02 squad could lose to Ohio State, you can't completely count out the Trojans. I'd take Miami easily, but couldn't call it a lock with Coker coaching.
Click to expand...

Coker was the weakness.
 
#28
#28
kptvol said:
Meh. 2001 Canes are definitely the better team. But if the '02 squad could lose to Ohio State, you can't completely count out the Trojans. I'd take Miami easily, but couldn't call it a lock with Coker coaching.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure the 2002 team was starting 12 new players. Pete Carroll has done exceptionally well in big games, and the Trojans were good, but I think the only real concern for the Canes team was not showing up against some of the teams they played that weren't as good. I like their chances in any big game.
 
Last edited:
#29
#29
kptvol said:
Meh. 2001 Canes are definitely the better team. But if the '02 squad could lose to Ohio State, you can't completely count out the Trojans. I'd take Miami easily, but couldn't call it a lock with Coker coaching.
Click to expand...
Put Portis, Shockey, Reed, et al on the 2002 team and Ohio State gets beaten by 5 touchdowns. People forget how much firepower Miami lost after the '01 season.
 
#30
#30
hatvol96 said:
Put Portis, Shockey, Reed, et al on the 2002 team and Ohio State gets beaten by 5 touchdowns. People forget how much firepower Miami lost after the '01 season.
Click to expand...
Exactly. 12 starters I think was the exact number. I think Miami would have a lot more success running the ball with Clinton Portis, Davenport, and the 4 starting linemen they lost after 2001.
 
Last edited:
#31
#31
The 2001 Canes team is the best team ive ever seen. I think we would have played them much much better than a NEB team that lost by a gazillion the week b4.
 
#32
#32
Seniors lost from 2001 to 2002 on Miami
Daryl Jones (WR)
Najeh Davenport (FB)
Mike Rumph (CB)
Ed Reed (S)
James Lewis (CB)
Markese Fitzgerald (CB)
Chris Campbell (LB)
Scott Puckett (G)
Martin Bibla (G)
Bryant McKinnie (T)
Cornelius Green (DE)

Underclassmen declaring for NFL Draft
Jeremy Shockey (TE)
Phillip Buchanon (CB)
Clinton Portis (HB)
Joaquin Gonzalez (T)
 
#34
#34
I think the 95 Nebraska was the best team to ever take the field. Their D alone was the most vicious I have ever seen.
 
#35
#35
hatvol96 said:
Put Portis, Shockey, Reed, et al on the 2002 team and Ohio State gets beaten by 5 touchdowns. People forget how much firepower Miami lost after the '01 season.
Click to expand...

Instead they had Mcgahee, Winslow, and Taylor...Not a drop off at all.
 
#36
#36
VolBuck24 said:
Instead they had Mcgahee, Winslow, and Taylor...Not a drop off at all.
Click to expand...
They lost their entire secondary, a linebacker, four offensive linemen, their starting running back, starting tight end, and starting full back. Most teams don't get better after losing 12 starters. There is a reason the 2002 team scored less and gave up double the points. You think they would have had a little more success running the ball against that Buckeye team with the 4 pros they lost on the line and Clinton Portis?

The 2001 team beats the 2002 team by 3 touchdowns, IMO.
 
#37
#37
I'd love to hear your explanation Droski. You really think the 2004 Trojans win easily? How do you dominate a bunch of pros?
 
#40
#40
tvolsfan said:
They lost their entire secondary, a linebacker, four offensive linemen, their starting running back, starting tight end, and starting full back. Most teams don't get better after losing 12 starters. There is a reason the 2002 team scored less and gave up double the points. You think they would have had a little more success running the ball against that Buckeye team with the 4 pros they lost on the line and Clinton Portis?

The 2001 team beats the 2002 team by 3 touchdowns, IMO.
Click to expand...

I understand they lost a lot but back then they were a loaded team so they just inserted and got back. Also I get that they lost 4 offensive linemen and Portis, but the o-line blocked well enough for McGahee to set the single season school rushing record. He and Dorsey were both be Heisman finalists.
 
#41
#41
VolBuck24 said:
I understand they lost a lot but back then they were a loaded team so they just inserted and got back. Also I get that they lost 4 offensive linemen and Portis, but the o-line blocked well enough for McGahee to set the single season school rushing record. He and Dorsey were both be Heisman finalists.
Click to expand...
They replaced the guys that left with talent. They were in no way as good as they were the year before.
 
#42
#42
tvolsfan said:
They replaced the guys that left with talent. They were in no way as good as they were the year before.
Click to expand...

I agree i think 2001 Miami was the best too, but there wasn't really a drop off from then to the next year.
 
#43
#43
VolBuck24 said:
I agree i think 2001 Miami was the best too, but there wasn't really a drop off from then to the next year.
Click to expand...
Then why did they score less and give up double the points per game? Why did their performance have such a drop off. In 2001 the games were rarely in doubt by half time. In 2002, they had plenty of scares and lost one as well.
 
#44
#44
VolBuck24 said:
Looking back at who they replace them with no there was no drop off.
Click to expand...

This might make sense if not for the fact that it defies both common sense and basic history.

You forget that Miami destroyed everyone in 2001; the only close game that they had was Boston College. In 12 games, they allowed 7 points or less 8 times. They scored 30+ points 10 times.

The 2002 team allowed 7 points or less just 3 times. They also were a missed FG away from losing to Florida State.

Or we can focus on the basic fact that a sophomore Sean Taylor (with no career starts) was not as good as Ed Reed was at that same point in time. Kellen Winslow as a sophomore (with no career starts) was not as good as Jeremy Shockey was as a junior, nor as good as he would have been as a senior. Willis McGahee as a sophomore (with no career starts) was not as good as Clinton Portis was as a junior not as good as he would have been with a senior.

You've focused entirely on those three players. How about Bryant McKinnie, who may be the best tackle in college football history? Who replaced him? Who replaced Joaquin Gonzalez on the other side? Sherko Haji-Rasouli may be a nice guy, but he wasn't anywhere near as good as Martin Bibla. Who replaced the two starting cornerbacks? The end result is the same: the 2002 team allowed more than twice as many points as the 2001 team because their starters were replaced by underclassmen who had no starts in their careers.
 
#45
#45
Ohio Vol said:
This might make sense if not for the fact that it defies both common sense and basic history.

You forget that Miami destroyed everyone in 2001; the only close game that they had was Boston College. In 12 games, they allowed 7 points or less 8 times. They scored 30+ points 10 times.

The 2002 team allowed 7 points or less just 3 times. They also were a missed FG away from losing to Florida State.

Or we can focus on the basic fact that a sophomore Sean Taylor (with no career starts) was not as good as Ed Reed was at that same point in time. Kellen Winslow as a sophomore (with no career starts) was not as good as Jeremy Shockey was as a junior, nor as good as he would have been as a senior. Willis McGahee as a sophomore (with no career starts) was not as good as Clinton Portis was as a junior not as good as he would have been with a senior.

You've focused entirely on those three players. How about Bryant McKinnie, who may be the best tackle in college football history? Who replaced him? Who replaced Joaquin Gonzalez on the other side? Sherko Haji-Rasouli may be a nice guy, but he wasn't anywhere near as good as Martin Bibla. Who replaced the two starting cornerbacks? The end result is the same: the 2002 team allowed more than twice as many points as the 2001 team because their starters were replaced by underclassmen who had no starts in their careers.
Click to expand...
I'll add the VT game was close, too, but I agree with your point.
 
#46
#46
tvolsfan said:
Then why did they score less and give up double the points per game? Why did their performance have such a drop off. In 2001 the games were rarely in doubt by half time. In 2002, they had plenty of scares and lost one as well.
Click to expand...

Teams catch up it happens to all teams that are considered dominant.
 
#48
#48
Ohio Vol said:
This might make sense if not for the fact that it defies both common sense and basic history.

You forget that Miami destroyed everyone in 2001; the only close game that they had was Boston College. In 12 games, they allowed 7 points or less 8 times. They scored 30+ points 10 times.

The 2002 team allowed 7 points or less just 3 times. They also were a missed FG away from losing to Florida State.

Or we can focus on the basic fact that a sophomore Sean Taylor (with no career starts) was not as good as Ed Reed was at that same point in time. Kellen Winslow as a sophomore (with no career starts) was not as good as Jeremy Shockey was as a junior, nor as good as he would have been as a senior. Willis McGahee as a sophomore (with no career starts) was not as good as Clinton Portis was as a junior not as good as he would have been with a senior.

You've focused entirely on those three players. How about Bryant McKinnie, who may be the best tackle in college football history? Who replaced him? Who replaced Joaquin Gonzalez on the other side? Sherko Haji-Rasouli may be a nice guy, but he wasn't anywhere near as good as Martin Bibla. Who replaced the two starting cornerbacks? The end result is the same: the 2002 team allowed more than twice as many points as the 2001 team because their starters were replaced by underclassmen who had no starts in their careers.
Click to expand...

My original post that started on this focused on those 3 players because it was said that they would have killed ohio state if they had reed, shockey, and Portis. I also don't see how you can say that sophomore McGahee wasn't as good as Portis when he have the kind of year that he had.
 
#49
#49
VolBuck24 said:
My original post that started on this focused on those 3 players because it was said that they would have killed ohio state if they had reed, shockey, and Portis. I also don't see how you can say that sophomore McGahee wasn't as good as Portis when he have the kind of year that he had.
Click to expand...
I'd rather have both.
 
#50
#50
tvolsfan said:
I'll add the VT game was close, too, but I agree with your point.
Click to expand...

Miami was up 26-10 going in the 4th. It ended up close, but it wasn't a back-and-forth type of matchup.

VolBuck24 said:
Teams catch up it happens to all teams that are considered dominant.
Click to expand...

The biggest factors that have to do with dominant teams declining are as follows:
1) Coaches move on (normally position coaches or coordinators, who are replaced by someone who is inherently inferior at that point in time)
2) Players move on and are replaced by players who are either past their prime or not to their prime yet
3) Dissemination of information allows other teams to cut the competitive gap (normally applies to a new offense or new defense that hasn't been seen before)

Which one applies here? 2001 Miami held over their coaching staff, and there wasn't anything groundbreaking about their offense or defense. Their decline from one season to the next is entirely because the players they had out there were not as good as the players they had the year before. The fact that they developed into great players down the road doesn't have anything to do with the fact that they were not dominant players in 2002. Period.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top