2010-11 Landscape Now Taking Shape

#26
#26
MikeHamiltonFan said:
Yes and just like the original poster you do not understand south carolina.

Go ahead and tell me just how bad they will be.

Why don't you tell me how much worse the sec will be next year as well.

Less ooc wins? You want to make that prediction?
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You are right MHF, guess I just don't understand South Carolina. Obviously, they are going to be great and will raise the level of respect for the SEC, possibly overtaking KY. A National Championship is not out of the question for this team. The SEC rules in basketball--no other conference even close.
 
#28
#28
King Webbsticles said:
You call it being cute but I was being honest... ANYONE will be an upgrade over Albert Jackson. Forget rankings out of high school or playing as a senior, Albert Jackson is the worst player on Georgia's team, including their walk-ons from wherever. His only offense was clean-up dunks and his one turn around lefty hook, he had no shot, and couldn't dribble more than twice. He was truly the worst player on the court every night.
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Stephen Pearl, Renauldo Wooldridge, Skylar McBee, Phil Jurick, Jon Snodgrass, Charles Krauthamer, Elena Kagan, your mother -- all have one thing in common. They are ANYONE.

What does that say about Fox as a coach that he was playing a guy who is a downgrade from your mother?

Since no one seems to be able to offer the decent counter-point without resorting to silliness of suggesting that a former 6'11 265 pound Senior player will be easily replaced by either a 6'9 200 pound freshman or anyone's mother, I will offer the counter-point so that this will actually be a good argument.

Wise-Vol, did you consider that Georgia adds transfer Gerald Robinson, Jr.? He is a scorer and more athletic than McPhee.

No, I didn't remember that. Robinson will add a missing element to Georgia's line-up, but I wonder if Fox will experience a sort of sophomore jinx, similar to what Pearl did with his pressing style -- first year opponents were not familiar, but the next year they had seen it and were better able to adjust to it.

Also, Wise-Vol, perhaps Fox will simply adjust to the low-post banging style of last season that gave the Vols (without Brian Williams) such a fit in Athens last season. Jackson provided depth, but few teams have two bigs like Thompkins and Price as it is. One could expect Thompkins, Price, and Leslie to all elevate their play now that they have had one year in the Fox system and Thompkins and Leslie are potential superstars. Thompkins may be the best post player in the SEC this season.

Was that so hard? It isn't like brain surgery.... :salute:
 
#29
#29
lylsmorr said:
It's no worse than calling Charlotte and Mizzou "good wins" for any club. Everyone makes wrong predictions. You all just want to start pissing contests when the other happens to be wrong. And some are more wrong than others.
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Sad. If you want to mock at least go back to me being wrong about arizona. Missouri rpi wise was a "good" ooc win, and I do not feel like a chump for failing to predict charlotte completely quitting on their coach and collapsing like the currency of zimbabwe.

Wisevol, did you consider that downey did not start as the only offensive option for his club and that aside from a top 25 class, horn gets back an experienced frontcourt that played very well prior to injury?

The style of play employed by the gamecocks changed out of necessity especially on the offensive end when they lost their whole frontcourt.

I enjoy your posts and the only thing I strongly disagreed with was the idea that lsu will suck again. Lsu should have a plus 10 win kind of turnaround.

By december the sec will probably have less ranked teams than the improved acc, the big east, the big ten and even possibly the big 12, but the sec will have top 3 depth. When some of your worst teams in your league bring in tons of talent, it tends to help your ooc victory tally as a conference.

I would like to see your grade for each coach in the sec for last season.

I would say stallings with his best career team disappointed, and I would say calipari did awful in the ncaas considering the talent he had.

Pelphrey had the rape suspensions, horn had the injuries, fox started crawling out of the hole he started in, trent johnson had 4 players, but alabama looked like a team that needs to fire their coach.
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#30
#30
Also trent kicked his second leading scorer off the team for now due to academics and booted his 4 walk ons, 3 of whom played significant minutes last year. He had 4 top 150 players who are coming in mind when he talked with confidence about next year. He also has lots of home ooc games and road games against uva and rice do not seem too daunting.
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#31
#31
Wise-Vol said:
Stephen Pearl, Renauldo Wooldridge, Skylar McBee, Phil Jurick, Jon Snodgrass, Charles Krauthamer, Elena Kagan, your mother -- all have one thing in common. They are ANYONE.

What does that say about Fox as a coach that he was playing a guy who is a downgrade from your mother?

Since no one seems to be able to offer the decent counter-point without resorting to silliness of suggesting that a former 6'11 265 pound Senior player will be easily replaced by either a 6'9 200 pound freshman or anyone's mother, I will offer the counter-point so that this will actually be a good argument.

Wise-Vol, did you consider that Georgia adds transfer Gerald Robinson, Jr.? He is a scorer and more athletic than McPhee.

No, I didn't remember that. Robinson will add a missing element to Georgia's line-up, but I wonder if Fox will experience a sort of sophomore jinx, similar to what Pearl did with his pressing style -- first year opponents were not familiar, but the next year they had seen it and were better able to adjust to it.

Also, Wise-Vol, perhaps Fox will simply adjust to the low-post banging style of last season that gave the Vols (without Brian Williams) such a fit in Athens last season. Jackson provided depth, but few teams have two bigs like Thompkins and Price as it is. One could expect Thompkins, Price, and Leslie to all elevate their play now that they have had one year in the Fox system and Thompkins and Leslie are potential superstars. Thompkins may be the best post player in the SEC this season.

Was that so hard? It isn't like brain surgery.... :salute:
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Did you ever see him play? 6'11'' 265, I don't care how physical he was, Albert Jackson was the worst basketball player on UGA's team last year.
 
#32
#32
Original Poster,

How can you say that Vandy will finish ahead of UK in the East and then list UK as third overall in the conference ahead of Vandy at fourth?

Seems to strike all credibility from your post.

Tennessee, Florida and UK will fight it out for the East. UGA will be better than last year and still probably finish 5th or 6th in the East. Finishing 4th should be considered a victory for them. They will pile up wins over West division opponents and struggle against superior talent in the East. The West will be awful next year. Perhaps the worst since the SEC split into two divisions. Every West team will be worse than they were this year and a .500 SEC record could win the division.
 
#33
#33
You need to let MHF tell you about all the great top 150 recruits all the teams from the west are bringing in this year. The loss of players from the SEC teams mean nothing to MHF. These great freshmen will make the conference rise to perhaps the best in the nation.
 
#34
#34
cncchris33 said:
Original Poster,

How can you say that Vandy will finish ahead of UK in the East and then list UK as third overall in the conference ahead of Vandy at fourth?

Seems to strike all credibility from your post.

Tennessee, Florida and UK will fight it out for the East. UGA will be better than last year and still probably finish 5th or 6th in the East. Finishing 4th should be considered a victory for them. They will pile up wins over West division opponents and struggle against superior talent in the East. The West will be awful next year. Perhaps the worst since the SEC split into two divisions. Every West team will be worse than they were this year and a .500 SEC record could win the division.
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Claiming that lsu and arkansas and auburn will all be worse is kind of funny.

Hf for you to not understand the difference a strong class can make to a decimated team with no depth is puzzling. Kentuckys class of last year was silly and no class this year compares, but there are lots of examples in cbb where a team goes from very bad to decent with one 5 to 6 player class
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#35
#35
MikeHamiltonFan said:
Claiming that lsu and arkansas and auburn will all be worse is kind of funny.

Hf for you to not understand the difference a strong class can make to a decimated team with no depth is puzzling. Kentuckys class of last year was silly and no class this year compares, but there are lots of examples in cbb where a team goes from very bad to decent with one 5 to 6 player class
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If you're addressing me (which I can't tell if you are or aren't) please clarify what your talking about. I read all my posts in this thread and what you suggest I "don't understand" isn't mentioned by me.
 
#37
#37
Hardwood_fanatic said:
If you're addressing me (which I can't tell if you are or aren't) please clarify what your talking about. I read all my posts in this thread and what you suggest I "don't understand" isn't mentioned by me.
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Sorry I was referring to Basketfan above.

I cannot figure out how to use the quote properly on my blackberry at all.

Braths,
The more teams you lump into a category, "All X will be Y this year" the more likely you are to be wrong whether you are saying they will all be better or worse or whatever.

LSU should be clearly better than last year. They are in the SEC West. Auburn finally has a coach and has some excellent freshman talent coming in. Arkansas lost tons of games while they had so many people suspended it was silly. They may or may not be better, I think they will have a much better first half than they did last year, but not as good of an SEC campaign.
 
#38
#38
King Webbsticles said:
Did you ever see him play? 6'11'' 265, I don't care how physical he was, Albert Jackson was the worst basketball player on UGA's team last year.
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A lot of love is being shown on here for Fox as a Coach. I wonder why he was playing his worst player in the regular rotation. :shades:
 
#39
#39
Wise-Vol said:
A lot of love is being shown on here for Fox as a Coach. I wonder why he was playing his worst player in the regular rotation. :shades:
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I think Fox got to know his personnel better during the course of the season. I also think with Lebo out at Auburn that the SEC has a pretty solid group of coaches. I do not understand the D Horn hatred by many, and think when South Carolina has more wins this year after losing D Downey people will have to give him some credit for growing his program.
 
#40
#40
MikeHamiltonFan said:
Claiming that lsu and arkansas and auburn will all be worse is kind of funny.

Hf for you to not understand the difference a strong class can make to a decimated team with no depth is puzzling. Kentuckys class of last year was silly and no class this year compares, but there are lots of examples in cbb where a team goes from very bad to decent with one 5 to 6 player class
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Improvement is relative. If LSU wins 4 conference games instead of 3, I guess you could argue that is improvement. However, they are still a very bad team. Same can be said for Auburn and Arkansas.
 
#41
#41
MikeHamiltonFan said:
I think Fox got to know his personnel better during the course of the season. I also think with Lebo out at Auburn that the SEC has a pretty solid group of coaches. I do not understand the D Horn hatred by many, and think when South Carolina has more wins this year after losing D Downey people will have to give him some credit for growing his program.
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It isn't hatred toward Horn. It is immense respect for Downey. Of course, Downey isn't the only guy they lost. They lost their three top guys. That's 47 of their 78 ppg, 6.3 of their 9.9 APG, and over 1/3rd of their rebounding per game. Plus, Downey single-handedly won some games for USC last season. Downey averaged over 30 points in the 6 SEC games USC won last season. In the KY win, he scored 30 points -- the rest of the team score 38 (Raley-Ross, also gone, picked up 17 of those 38). So, two guys who accounted for 47 of USC's 68 points against KY are bye-bye. Downey got 33 against UGA -- rest of team scored 45. 29 against LSU -- rest of the team 38. 18 of those 38 were from the other two seniors.

Muldrow is the only guy USC has returning who has shown he can play SEC basketball at a high level. That doesn't mean the three rising sophomores (Jackson, Galloway, and Spinella) might not turn out to be quality SEC players. They have a big recruiting class coming in with two studs in particular at PG and Forward, but to say USC will be better means that (a) those two newcomers along with the improvement from the returning guys has to be better than Downey and Raley-Ross with where those returning guys were last year; and (b) the rest of the conference has to be worse at a level that makes a difference. I don't see TN, KY, Vandy, or UGA being down from last year at a level that allows USC to catch-up. In fact, with Vandy returning 3-4 guys who have shown they can play at a high level in the SEC, UT returning the same amount and adding a franchise player, and UGA returning two of the best 10 players in the SEC (Thompkins may be the best overall), I don't see USC winning more than 3 SEC East games this season (UGA, Vandy and KY at home, perhaps, but even those last two are iffy).

Has nothing to do with Horn. He'd have to have a season like Pearl's first in Knoxville for USC to have a better season.
 
#43
#43
Wise-Vol said:
It isn't hatred toward Horn. It is immense respect for Downey. Of course, Downey isn't the only guy they lost. They lost their three top guys. That's 47 of their 78 ppg, 6.3 of their 9.9 APG, and over 1/3rd of their rebounding per game. Plus, Downey single-handedly won some games for USC last season. Downey averaged over 30 points in the 6 SEC games USC won last season. In the KY win, he scored 30 points -- the rest of the team score 38 (Raley-Ross, also gone, picked up 17 of those 38). So, two guys who accounted for 47 of USC's 68 points against KY are bye-bye. Downey got 33 against UGA -- rest of team scored 45. 29 against LSU -- rest of the team 38. 18 of those 38 were from the other two seniors.

Muldrow is the only guy USC has returning who has shown he can play SEC basketball at a high level. That doesn't mean the three rising sophomores (Jackson, Galloway, and Spinella) might not turn out to be quality SEC players. They have a big recruiting class coming in with two studs in particular at PG and Forward, but to say USC will be better means that (a) those two newcomers along with the improvement from the returning guys has to be better than Downey and Raley-Ross with where those returning guys were last year; and (b) the rest of the conference has to be worse at a level that makes a difference. I don't see TN, KY, Vandy, or UGA being down from last year at a level that allows USC to catch-up. In fact, with Vandy returning 3-4 guys who have shown they can play at a high level in the SEC, UT returning the same amount and adding a franchise player, and UGA returning two of the best 10 players in the SEC (Thompkins may be the best overall), I don't see USC winning more than 3 SEC East games this season (UGA, Vandy and KY at home, perhaps, but even those last two are iffy).

Has nothing to do with Horn. He'd have to have a season like Pearl's first in Knoxville for USC to have a better season.
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Ky lost like 58 of the 64 pts they scored. So....That's a crazy way to mess with numbers. For 1, those same shots will be taken by either returning and IMPROVED players, or by imcoming guys.
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#44
#44
That's not a crazy way to mess with numbers at all. Fact is most of the scoring is gone and to suggest that they will somehow be better is what's crazy.
 
#45
#45
BasketvolsFan said:
Improvement is relative. If LSU wins 4 conference games instead of 3, I guess you could argue that is improvement. However, they are still a very bad team. Same can be said for Auburn and Arkansas.
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You keep throwing Auburn in that group, but Barbee is a solid coach...
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#46
#46
MHF,
Adding talent doesn't equate to success. Those three teams that you mentioned could possibly have a better record and still not be any good when it's all said and done. That was my point.

Pelphrey is not a good coach. He will probably last no more than two more years in Fayetteville.

Johnson is a good coach, but he has so much to overcome. They might be bringing in some talent, but none of it is elite talent and they lost their best player (Tasmin Mitchell) to graduation.

Auburn is the wild card. Barbee is perhaps a decent coach, but unproven. He is bringing in talent as well, but none of it is elite talent, so nothing more than a marginal improvement should be expected.

Obviously those teams COULD have better records next year, but it will be at the expense of the perceived "better" teams like Miss State and Ole Miss being worse next year than this year due to personnel losses. So, while the three you mentioned may have better records, they might not be heads and tails better than they were this year.

Mark my words. The West will be AWFUL next year. Tennessee, Florida and Kentucky shouldn't lose one game to a West opponent next year and the top two teams in the West will be around .500 in conference play (9-7, 8-8).
 
#47
#47
MikeHamiltonFan said:
I think Fox got to know his personnel better during the course of the season. I also think with Lebo out at Auburn that the SEC has a pretty solid group of coaches. I do not understand the D Horn hatred by many, and think when South Carolina has more wins this year after losing D Downey people will have to give him some credit for growing his program.
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Not that I have expressed it much, but to clear it up my hatred for Horn stems from personal experiences with the man here in Bowling Green while he coached at WKU. Personally speaking, the man is a douche. As far as coaching goes, he holds his own.
 
#48
#48
Hardwood_fanatic said:
Not that I have expressed it much, but to clear it up my hatred for Horn stems from personal experiences with the man here in Bowling Green while he coached at WKU. Personally speaking, the man is a douche. As far as coaching goes, he holds his own.
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You underestimate what an awful human being Horn is with that post. You overestimate what kind of coach he is with that post.
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#49
#49
Wise-Vol said:
It isn't hatred toward Horn. It is immense respect for Downey. Of course, Downey isn't the only guy they lost. They lost their three top guys. That's 47 of their 78 ppg, 6.3 of their 9.9 APG, and over 1/3rd of their rebounding per game. Plus, Downey single-handedly won some games for USC last season. Downey averaged over 30 points in the 6 SEC games USC won last season. In the KY win, he scored 30 points -- the rest of the team score 38 (Raley-Ross, also gone, picked up 17 of those 38). So, two guys who accounted for 47 of USC's 68 points against KY are bye-bye. Downey got 33 against UGA -- rest of team scored 45. 29 against LSU -- rest of the team 38. 18 of those 38 were from the other two seniors.

Muldrow is the only guy USC has returning who has shown he can play SEC basketball at a high level. That doesn't mean the three rising sophomores (Jackson, Galloway, and Spinella) might not turn out to be quality SEC players. They have a big recruiting class coming in with two studs in particular at PG and Forward, but to say USC will be better means that (a) those two newcomers along with the improvement from the returning guys has to be better than Downey and Raley-Ross with where those returning guys were last year; and (b) the rest of the conference has to be worse at a level that makes a difference. I don't see TN, KY, Vandy, or UGA being down from last year at a level that allows USC to catch-up. In fact, with Vandy returning 3-4 guys who have shown they can play at a high level in the SEC, UT returning the same amount and adding a franchise player, and UGA returning two of the best 10 players in the SEC (Thompkins may be the best overall), I don't see USC winning more than 3 SEC East games this season (UGA, Vandy and KY at home, perhaps, but even those last two are iffy).

Has nothing to do with Horn. He'd have to have a season like Pearl's first in Knoxville for USC to have a better season.
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These are all solid points. I think for some reason when people say better or worse seasons they are only including the SEC. I thought I made it clear I was not. South Carolina can improve in wins by 5-6 and not do much better at all in the SEC and it will be a better season IMO.
 
#50
#50
hatvol96 said:
You underestimate what an awful human being Horn is with that post. You overestimate what kind of coach he is with that post.
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Yeah, I made it short and sweet. I can go on for quite some time about the overall abominable, appalling, detestable, execrable, hideous, loathsome, lurid person that is Darrin Horn.
 
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