2012 Tour de France

#30
#30
Agree to disagree.

2 minute drill, down 4 points in the Superbowl/SECCG is as exciting as sports gets.

Sudden death OT of game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals is exciting as sports gets.

March Madness, Final 4 is as exciting as sports gets.


Watching a bunch of bicycles riding up and down the road is pretty boring.
 
#31
#31
Thrasher865 said:
Agree to disagree.

2 minute drill, down 4 points in the Superbowl/SECCG is as exciting as sports gets.

Sudden death OT of game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals is exciting as sports gets.

March Madness, Final 4 is as exciting as sports gets.


Watching a bunch of bicycles riding up and down the road is pretty boring.
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Context is everything. Watching guys ride bicycles isn't inherently more or less boring than watching grown men throw a ball around.

When those guys go man to man at the absolute limits of human endurance on a mountainside, the drama of high-level competition by guys who are in physical agony is about as compelling as it gets. In American sports, we spout a whole lot of BS about how a guy hits a baseball or throws a basketball through a hoop because of his fortitude, his grit, his desire, etc etc etc. In the Alps and the Pyrenees, it's real.
 
#32
#32
slh1089 said:
Looking forward to the Vuelta when Contador returns also. I love cheering against that man.
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Come on, why the hate for Alberto? Him punching spectators certainly adds some interest.

CONTADOR-HITS.jpg
 
#33
#33
Vercingetorix said:
Context is everything. Watching guys ride bicycles isn't inherently more or less boring than watching grown men throw a ball around.

When those guys go man to man at the absolute limits of human endurance on a mountainside, the drama of high-level competition by guys who are in physical agony is about as compelling as it gets. In American sports, we spout a whole lot of BS about how a guy hits a baseball or throws a basketball through a hoop because of his fortitude, his grit, his desire, etc etc etc. In the Alps and the Pyrenees, it's real.
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I second this. Also throw in the part where many of these men finish miles and miles of riding with incredible injuries.
 
#34
#34
I was never much of an Armstrong fan -- nothing to do with doping; the guy is an insufferable ass -- but that episode 10-ish years ago where he turned around and stared Jan Ulrich in the face to measure him and then blew him away was like something out of literature. If someone thinks that's boring because it's just "bicycles riding up and down the road," then I don't know what to say to them.
 
#37
#37
Vercingetorix said:
I was never much of an Armstrong fan -- nothing to do with doping; the guy is an insufferable ass -- but that episode 10-ish years ago where he turned around and stared Jan Ulrich in the face to measure him and then blew him away was like something out of literature. If someone thinks that's boring because it's just "bicycles riding up and down the road," then I don't know what to say to them.
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I don't like him for the same reason, but the doping didn't help
 
#38
#38
Cadel is finished. Van Garderen now the team leader. A top 5 would be tremendous for him
 
#40
#40
golfballs said:
I don't like him for the same reason, but the doping didn't help
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I am not naive but I will say innocent until proven guilty. He is the most tested athlete in the history of sports and has no definitive positive tests. The way I view Lance is that he definitley has carácter flaws but he has done plenty good in his life. I am a fan and will support him until the end.
 
#41
#41
slh1089 said:
I am not naive but I will say innocent until proven guilty. He is the most tested athlete in the history of sports and has no definitive positive tests. The way I view Lance is that he definitley has carácter flaws but he has done plenty good in his life. I am a fan and will support him until the end.
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It was difficult enough to believe that the one clean guy in the sport was the one who won seven times in a row. Once all his old teammates apparently started testifying that the whole team was doing it, something hard to believe became something impossible to believe. Barry Bonds never tested positive either, did he?

Unfortunately he's put himself into the Roger Clemens position. He's dug in too deep.
 
#42
#42
Vercingetorix said:
It was difficult enough to believe that the one clean guy in the sport was the one who won seven times in a row. Once all his old teammates apparently started testifying that the whole team was doing it, something hard to believe became something impossible to believe. Barry Bonds never tested positive either, did he?

Unfortunately he's put himself into the Roger Clemens position. He's dug in too deep.
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I tend to agree but here is my reasoning:

1. Most tested athlete in the history of sports with no positive tests

2. The Dutch news article you have referred to seems to be fabricated due to the responses from all major cyclists mentioned in the article

3. I know the guy is a b***h but he has done so much for cancer research (I have been directly affected by cancer so I am biased) that I overlook character flaws.
 
#43
#43
His foundation has done a tremendous amount for cancer "awareness," whatever that is, but not so much actual cancer research. I read a depressing article last year that talked about how, like the Komen foundation, most of the money raised goes right back into "awareness" and such and how little of it actually goes into research. I've had close family members die from cancer myself. So reading about the finances of these prominent, money-raising foundations is incredibly depressing to read.

My hat's off to him for having the guts to come back from cancer and rebuild his cycling career, but at the same time, I think we as Americans make the story into "Lance conquered cancer through his iron will and determination" when it's more like, "Most of the other people diagnosed when Lance was died, and he was lucky and lived." Having the courage to come back from near death and rebuild a cycling career is incredible but that's not how he beat cancer to begin with. You can't will yourself to beating cancer. It's an incredibly inspiring story but ultimately, if the money's not being funneled through into actual research, I don't know how helpful it is.

I don't actually care much about the doping. They were all doing it; so as far as I'm concerned Armstrong won on a level playing field. But here's an article from Armstrong's hometown Austin newspaper about George Hincapie's apparent testimony. Nobody in cycling has better credibility than George Hincapie.

'Loyal' Hincapie's testimony could be damaging to Armstrong
 
#44
#44
Fair enough, I need to research more into the funds and allocation. At this moment i will admit I am just one that has taken "livestrong" for face value.
 
#45
#45
And to the link posted, a lot of ifs and it is based off of the Ditch story that has been found to be fabricated. NBC sports asked all
Cyclists listed in the story, including Hincappie, and they all declined the validity of the report. I am not trying to be a pest when I ask the question "Why no positive results?" Years and years of testing with no positives.
 
#46
#46
The smart guys are always two years ahead of the tests. There have been rumors for a long time that Hincapie was subpoenaed and had testified. There's just so much smoke around it that, when you add it to the plausibility of the idea that the one clean guy in the sport is the one who won all those years in a row, I think at some point it becomes overwhelming. If Hincapie did testify against him and it ever comes out then that will be a bombshell.

Maybe tomorrow I'll dig up the article about Armstrong I read; it did a pretty exhaustive job covering the testing allegations and the charity. Too depressing to think about tonight. But I do think anyone seriously interested in cycling ought to read it.

But hey, final stage in the Pyrenees starts in four hours. Too bad it's pretty much a fait accompli at this point.
 
#47
#47
I see and understand the smoke leading to a bombshell argument, but for Me, I have gotten so jaded with allegations against Lance that i have taken the "just prove it stance". I admit that in my heart of hearts I know he most likely doped, but to me it doesn't bother me because if it comes out he did then I can't imagine one rider that didn't. As for the artIcle you mention, I would lOve the link. But like you said, here is to the last very exciting stage, maybe Nibadli makes move. I would love to see an attack that has Teejay in it just to see what he can put put out there at the moment.
 
#48
#48
Vercingetorix said:
It isn't watered down at all. It's the same race. Get up in the morning, ride from Knoxville to Nashville. Do it every day for three weeks -- except half a dozen times you ride from Oak Ridge to the top of Clingman's Dome instead. The days when they're in the mountains is the about the best sports you'll watch all year.

This is a good time for American partisans to get into it because Tejay van Garderen, an American from Montana who's currently working as a domestique for Cadel Evans, is clearly one of the best young riders in the world, and he's going to be gunning for Tour wins himself in a year or two. Get on the bandwagon early.
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It's about like watching a guy run a marathon, in other words boring as f@$#. Challenging to do, boring as hell to watch.
 
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