2013-2014 Top Teams in Terms of NBA Talent

[bleedingTNorange]

I'm not sure I get what you're saying, you keep saying that "on paper" Memphis has one of the most talented teams in the country.

They do, according to this article.

Will Barton is doing amazing in the NBA right now, as was Elliot Williams pre-injury. Suddenly because Adonis Thomas doesn't get drafted, Pastner isn't developing talent?

On paper, meaning, compare Memphis' roster according to Rivals rankings, against the other teams on the list. In my quick search, I've got Memphis as having a top 5 talent roster, yet preseason rankings nor this article seem to agree...why is that?


And if you don't wanna count Kendrick against Pastner at all, then you can't count Williams for him. He was coached by K and was on his way to the league regardless of going to Memphis not not.

Like I said, Pastner's best developmental job is DJ Stephens, and yes he's night and day better, but at the end of the day doubtful he plays in the league very long, if at all. Joe Jackson according to draft express (the most accurate) has Joe Jackson as a late 2nd rounder, not much to write home about on that one.

 

[BigZiti09]

The UT message board lurking Memphis fans lost their "Memphis TN series to continue" thread yesterday. Didn't take long for them to start another thread so we can get sucked in to talking about their wanna be program that nobody cares about.

 

[MemphisCanes]

On paper, meaning, compare Memphis' roster according to Rivals rankings, against the other teams on the list. In my quick search, I've got Memphis as having a top 5 talent roster, yet preseason rankings nor this article seem to agree...why is that?


And if you don't wanna count Kendrick against Pastner at all, then you can't count Williams for him. He was coached by K and was on his way to the league regardless of going to Memphis not not.

Like I said, Pastner's best developmental job is DJ Stephens, and yes he's night and day better, but at the end of the day doubtful he plays in the league very long, if at all. Joe Jackson according to draft express (the most accurate) has Joe Jackson as a late 2nd rounder, not much to write home about on that one.

Williams was in Memphis for an entire season.

Kendrick was in and out in a matter of weeks.

As for talent "on paper", is this ESPN author then mistaken as to how much talent each team has? You're trying to make two competing points here.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

There's a lot of NBA guys doing worse for themselves than Barton is.

Considering Pastner has only "graduated" (left school with or without degree, not transfers to another school) about 6 or so guys that he's brought into the program himself:

Will Coleman
Elliot Williams
Adonis Thomas
D.J. Stephens
Will Barton
Stan Simpson

And two are currently on NBA contracts, while two others are working out for NBA summer league teams, Pastner isn't doing all that bad.

EDIT: 7 players; forgot Ferro Hall.

I highly doubt the expectations Joe Jackson had were 4 year guy, I'm sure the expectation was one and done. 5* guys are expected (fair or not) to go to the league, and right now Pastner isn't doing a very good job of that.

Your Barton defense actually could work against your arguement....what'd Pastner get out of Barton (you said he'd NEVER get drafted), so obviously Barton didn't develop much under Pastner. He gets picked 2nd round, cant make a NBA team (under Pastner's coaching), goes to the D-league, and suddenly under new coaching becomes a better player and makes a NBA roster????

Hmmmmmmm

 

[MemphisCanes]

The UT message board lurking Memphis fans lost their "Memphis TN series to continue" thread yesterday. Didn't take long for them to start another thread so we can get sucked in to talking about their wanna be program that nobody cares about.

I started a thread about UT's talent next season, and BTO started talking about Pastner.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Williams was in Memphis for an entire season.

Kendrick was in and out in a matter of weeks.

As for talent "on paper", is this ESPN author then mistaken as to how much talent each team has? You're trying to make two competing points here.

The author is talking about NBA talent, he apparently thinks that while Pastner has some stud recruits he's not gonna develop them into NBA players.


If you noticed who wrote the article this would become more obvious to you, Goodman doesn't think very highly of Josh.

 

[MemphisCanes]

I highly doubt the expectations Joe Jackson had were 4 year guy, I'm sure the expectation was one and done. 5* guys are expected (fair or not) to go to the league, and right now Pastner isn't doing a very good job of that.

Your Barton defense actually could work against your arguement....what'd Pastner get out of Barton (you said he'd NEVER get drafted), so obviously Barton didn't develop much under Pastner. He gets picked 2nd round, cant make a NBA team (under Pastner's coaching), goes to the D-league, and suddenly under new coaching becomes a better player and makes a NBA roster????

Hmmmmmmm

Why do you say that? Peyton Siva, a 5 star McD's AA, was a 4 year guy under Pitino.

Will Barton was drafted by the Trailblazers guy. He was in the D-League for like half a week.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I started a thread about UT's talent next season, and BTO started talking about Pastner.

It was a discussion question, I even included not to instigate, it was open to anyone...I'm sure nobody was surprised to see you come running to Pastner's defense though.

 

[MemphisCanes]

The author is talking about NBA talent, he apparently thinks that while Pastner has some stud recruits he's not gonna develop them into NBA players.


If you noticed who wrote the article this would become more obvious to you, Goodman doesn't think very highly of Josh.

Well which is it? Are these guys (Barton, Williams) headed to the NBA no matter or what do they have to be developed? Pick a stance, man.

Goodman and Josh have been friends for years, what do you mean 'Goodman doesn't think highly of him"?

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Why do you say that? Peyton Siva, a 5 star McD's AA, was a 4 year guy under Pitino.

Will Barton was drafted by the Trailblazers guy. He was in the D-League for like half a week.

Who had Siva as a 5*?

So you admit it, Pastner's coaching couldn't get Barton into the NBA, even though he had summer league and workouts to prove it...yet a little time spent under a new coach and he's magically a NBA player now?


Ok playa

 

[walkenvol]

Draft Express who has had the most accurate mocks in past year has Jarnell 27 and Jordan 34 (2ndRD Pick 4).


DraftExpress: Mock Draft

I could see their draft positions reversed if Jordan continues to progress this season like last and Stokes continues to play a similar game to what he's done the previous 2 seasons. To me, Jordan has a more NBA type of game than Stokes. Not many 6'-8" centers in the NBA, especially one that doesn't elevate well. Now if he demonstrates a good 12'-15' jump shot this season (and I hope he does) then I believe he's a top 15 pick.

 

[MemphisCanes]

Who had Siva as a 5*?

So you admit it, Pastner's coaching couldn't get Barton into the NBA, even though he had summer league and workouts to prove it...yet a little time spent under a new coach and he's magically a NBA player now?


Ok playa

Siva was a burger boy, who was the last McD's AA that wasn't a 5 star?

I still don't understand about Barton. He was drafted, how did he "not get to the NBA". Are you thinking of someone else? Adonis?

 

[MemphisCanes]

I could see their draft positions reversed if Jordan continues to progress this season like last and Stokes continues to play a similar game to what he's done the previous 2 seasons. To me, Jordan has a more NBA type of game than Stokes. Not many 6'-8" centers in the NBA, especially one that doesn't elevate well. Now if he demonstrates a good 12'-15' jump shot this season (and I hope he does) then I believe he's a top 15 pick.

Stokes merely has to show a motor and determination this season, to land in the mid first round. He'll never be a 5 man in the NBA, but he can develop into a Dejuan Blair/Zach Randolph sort of 4 man.

 

[volfan414life]

I honestly believe Stokes' and McRae's stock will increase after this season despite how heavy this next draft is supposed to be.

I think that the draft has been week for all most every year except a few in past 16- 17 years . The only one in that time I even can remember is 03 and only because 3 of the top 5 picks all play for the heat now. There are way to many collage kids and kids is correct enter the draft to play in a league of big strong developed men and most do not get much playing time the first two or three years

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Well which is it? Are these guys (Barton, Williams) headed to the NBA no matter or what do they have to be developed? Pick a stance, man.

Goodman and Josh have been friends for years, what do you mean 'Goodman doesn't think highly of him"?

If you don't see the difference between being coached by coach K for awhile then Pastner for a year, and only being coached by Pastner for a few years....then you're hopeless man. When Elliot transferred to Memphis from Duke, he was a NBA player. When Barton got to Memphis, he had the potential, but needed to be developed...see the difference?


He does like josh, but doesn't mean he has to think highly of him as a coach. If you haven't noticed this, then you haven't been paying attention.

All last year he had Memphis ranked lower than anyone, multiple times said if it was up to him they wouldn't be ranked in CBS' top 25, but that Gary Parrish had them ranked higher, so they would meet in the middle.

 

[MemphisCanes]

He does like josh, but doesn't mean he has to think highly of him as a coach. If you haven't noticed this, then you haven't been paying attention.

All last year he had Memphis ranked lower than anyone, multiple times said if it was up to him they wouldn't be ranked in CBS' top 25, but that Gary Parrish had them ranked higher, so they would meet in the middle.

SMH. He also said that the C-USA was worse than the SWAC and should have their AQ bid revoked. At what point do you start picking up on the hyperbole, BTO??? I thought it was pretty obvious.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I could see their draft positions reversed if Jordan continues to progress this season like last and Stokes continues to play a similar game to what he's done the previous 2 seasons. To me, Jordan has a more NBA type of game than Stokes. Not many 6'-8" centers in the NBA, especially one that doesn't elevate well. Now if he demonstrates a good 12'-15' jump shot this season (and I hope he does) then I believe he's a top 15 pick.

Agree with you completely

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Siva was a burger boy, who was the last McD's AA that wasn't a 5 star?

I still don't understand about Barton. He was drafted, how did he "not get to the NBA". Are you thinking of someone else? Adonis?

Well a quick google search says he wasn't a 5* on scout or rivals, so....idk what to tell ya man.

On Barton, idk how much clearer I can make it. Barton was drafted (like you said he NEVER would be), however, through workout and summer league he was unable to make a NBA roster. Ironically, he goes to the D-league, receives some new coaching, and is all of a sudden capable of making a NBA roster. Seems to me like Pastner wasn't able to develop him to his fullest potential, if he was he'd have made a NBA roster coming out of the summer league games.

If you still don't understand, you never will, so just move on.

 

[VolGee4]

SMH. He also said that the C-USA was worse than the SWAC and should have their AQ bid revoked. At what point do you start picking up on the hyperbole, BTO??? I thought it was pretty obvious.

Hyperbole? You are the king of it. Afterall, you are an attorney.

The Trail Blazers realized that they were not making the playoffs and started playing guys for the future at the end of the year. There was a discussion about this because there was an important game at the end of the year for playoff ramifications. That is why Will got more opportunities. Now, where he will go from here, I don't know.

As someone who watches more Memphis basketball than many other UT fans, I would be concerned about player development. But, Josh can still do it. I think it's maybe more of the attitude issues that Josh has had than maybe the skills. Will was a problem at times (selfish), and Adonis had people in his ear about shooting more from the outside. This is the type of stuff that someone like Cal won't stand for. He will put you on the bench for it. At some point, Josh will need to do that himself or he will have trouble teaching these guys.

Josh does not have a great record yet for putting mid to high level picks into the NBA. We will see where it goes from here.

 

[MemphisCanes]

Well a quick google search says he wasn't a 5* on scout or rivals, so....idk what to tell ya man.

On Barton, idk how much clearer I can make it. Barton was drafted (like you said he NEVER would be), however, through workout and summer league he was unable to make a NBA roster. Ironically, he goes to the D-league, receives some new coaching, and is all of a sudden capable of making a NBA roster. Seems to me like Pastner wasn't able to develop him to his fullest potential, if he was he'd have made a NBA roster coming out of the summer league games.

If you still don't understand, you never will, so just move on.

Ah, there's your problem. He made the Blazer's roster. You've got your facts mixed up.

But just for giggles, let's follow your logic through: He goes from the Blazers roster in December to their Idaho D-League team for two days, and then back. Your well-formed, insightful argument in this thread is that his 2 days in the D-League is what prepared him for the NBA? Seriously?

 

[bleedingTNorange]

SMH. He also said that the C-USA was worse than the SWAC and should have their AQ bid revoked. At what point do you start picking up on the hyperbole, BTO??? I thought it was pretty obvious.

Lmao if you think goodman thinks highly of Pasnter coaching ability then you're more naive than I thought.

So you're telling me that just for fun, and "hyperbole", Godman constantly throughout the year on a major media poll decided to rank Memphis lower/or have them unranked?

If you dont think Memphis has top 10 talent, well then, whatever helps you sleep at night man.

 

[MemphisCanes]

Hyperbole? You are the king of it. Afterall, you are an attorney.

Attorneys don't actually get to use hyperbole that much.

The Trail Blazers realized that they were not making the playoffs and started playing guys for the future at the end of the year. There was a discussion about this because there was an important game at the end of the year for playoff ramifications. That is why Will got more opportunities. Now, where he will go from here, I don't know.

I agree. Barton is an important young player for the Blazers.

As someone who watches more Memphis basketball than many other UT fans, I would be concerned about player development. But, Josh can still do it. I think it's maybe more of the attitude issues that Josh has had than maybe the skills. Will was a problem at times (selfish), and Adonis had people in his ear about shooting more from the outside. This is the type of stuff that someone like Cal won't stand for. He will put you on the bench for it. At some point, Josh will need to do that himself or he will have trouble teaching these guys.

Well, I can't argue about Barton, but he was the only one on that team that would step up and take charge. As for Adonis, Pastner is the one that wanted him to shoot more. Adonis was the Anti-Will Barton, he needed to be more aggressive.

Josh does not have a great record yet for putting mid to high level picks into the NBA. We will see where it goes from here.

In comparison to what other coaches?

.

 

[MemphisCanes]

Lmao if you think goodman thinks highly of Pasnter coaching ability then you're more naive than I thought.

So you're telling me that just for fun, and "hyperbole", Godman constantly throughout the year on a major media poll decided to rank Memphis lower/or have them unranked?

Ok bro, whatever helps you sleep at night.

Goodman did what he did last season to get a rise out of gullible Memphis fans, to take pokes at his friend Josh, and to boost his internet hits by being the Heel. Again, I'm surprised I have to explain this to someone.

Does he think Josh is a bad coach? No (Find me a quote in which he calls Pastner a bad coach). Does he think Josh is a great coach? No. No reasonable person does at this point. Pastner is simply a young coach, like Cuonzo.

 

[VolGee4]

.

Pretty funny, considering I am an attorney. Not used alot? Is that supposed to be hyperbole?

As compared to the amount of talent that he has recruited, Josh has not done well with the NBA. That is in comparison to the other coaches who recruit Top 25 talent.

I am not getting caught up in this- just stating my opinion. These things get hashed and rehashed so much. To be honest, with regard to Memphis, things are not as rosy as a Memphis fan believes and not as bad as a UT fan would have you believe. JMO.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Ah, there's your problem. He made the Blazer's roster. You've got your facts mixed up.

But just for giggles, let's follow your logic through: He goes from the Blazers roster in December to their Idaho D-League team for two days, and then back. Your well-formed, insightful argument in this thread is that his 2 days in the D-League is what prepared him for the NBA? Seriously?

So Barton was on the bench for the Portland trailblazers opening night?

If so, then yes, I was wrong. I was under the impression he started the year in the d-league.