2015 NBA Pre-Draft Thread

#76
#76
GahLee said:
Kevin Love's first year ever on a contending team wasn't very good. He spent the whole year sulking in the corner. And now that he's out, Cleveland hasn't missed a beat. At this point I'd happily take Tristan Thompson over him.
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Sulking?

He had a pretty good year, but he was playing hurt most of the year and he just didn't get his touches. They were the highest scoring trio in the league.

Thompson is a better fit in the starting 5 because they were bent on starting 3 wings* who like to shoot and Mosgov is not a great rim/paint defender. Love was in basically the worst situation possible to maximize his talent.

I've been saying since December that Love needed to come off the bench. Start more defense and offset the offensive firepower. The only reason we are having this conversation is because Love didn't shoot 16 times per game. Starting 5 should have been Mosgov, Thompson, Lebron, Shump, Irving, with Love and Smith being the first guys off the bench.

*Waiters and Jr Smith were shooting almost as much as Love for ****'s sake
 
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#77
#77
n_huffhines said:
Sulking?

He had a pretty good year, but he was playing hurt most of the year and he just didn't get his touches. They were the highest scoring trio in the league.

Thompson is a better fit in the starting 5 because they were bent on starting 3 wings* who like to shoot and Mosgov is not a great rim/paint defender. Love was in basically the worst situation possible to maximize his talent.

I've been saying since December that Love needed to come off the bench. Start more defense and offset the offensive firepower. The only reason we are having this conversation is because Love didn't shoot 16 times per game. Starting 5 should have been Mosgov, Thompson, Lebron, Shump, Irving, with Love and Smith being the first guys off the bench.

*Waiters and Jr Smith were shooting almost as much as Love for ****'s sake
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All I'm saying is, he had a chance in this one year rental with Cleveland to show how valuable he can be on a team that matters and he failed.

He didn't prove himself to be a valued asset that you can build around. In your defense of him, you argue he should have been a bench player. What else is there to say?
 
#78
#78
GahLee said:
All I'm saying is, he had a chance in this one year rental with Cleveland to show how valuable he can be on a team that matters and he failed.

He didn't prove himself to be a valued asset that you can build around. In your defense of him, you argue he should have been a bench player. What else is there to say?
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John Havliceck and Manu are two of the greatest players of their generations.
 
#79
#79
apevol said:
John Havliceck and Manu are two of the greatest players of their generations.
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First off, Havlicek played on legendary teams and even then he played major minutes. We're not talking about the 60's Celtics here.

Secondly, your assertion that Manu is one of the greatest players of his generation is laughable. Just stop.
 
#81
#81
GahLee said:
All I'm saying is, he had a chance in this one year rental with Cleveland to show how valuable he can be on a team that matters and he failed.

He didn't prove himself to be a valued asset that you can build around. In your defense of him, you argue he should have been a bench player. What else is there to say?
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All this proves to me is that Thompson is very underrated and a better fit in the starting 5. Again, Love played hurt all year. He scored efficiently and he rebounded well. That's exactly what they expected from him. It's on them for not getting him more touches.

What is he supposed to do with a PG that shoots 17 fgapg and an SF who handles the ball more than most PGs?

Also, I think differently about bench players than most people. I think getting 35 minutes is what matters. It doesn't matter when.

What other team would Love get 13 FGAs on? It's absurd.
 
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#83
#83
What bench player plays 35 minutes and how would coming off the bench help if he plays 35 minutes a game.
 
#84
#84
Yankee_Vol said:
I doubt Love re-signs in Cleveland
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Virtually no chance of it. Why would Cleveland re-sign him? They're excelling without him.

And why would Kevin Love re-sign? He's obviously not happy being a third-wheel on a title contending team and would rather be a stat whore on a bum ass team.
 
#85
#85
I mean call me crazy but the Cavs got the two seed. It's not like it killed their season.
 
#86
#86
n_huffhines said:
All this proves to me is that Thompson is very underrated and a better fit in the starting 5. Again, Love played hurt all year. He scored efficiently and he rebounded well. That's exactly what they expected from him. It's on them for not getting him more touches.

What is he supposed to do with a PG that shoots 17 ppg and an SF who handles the ball more than most PGs?

Also, I think differently about bench players than most people. I think getting 35 minutes is what matters. It doesn't matter when.

What other team would Love get 13 FGAs on? It's absurd.
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On what teams would Love average that may shots?

A good one.
 
#88
#88
n_huffhines said:
I wouldn't. If Love refused to go to the bench, part of his lack of FGAs is on him. If 13 FGAPG is what the GM and the coach wanted, I would be out of town.
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If winning titles is the ultimate goal, then you take the role. If playing for pride and a massive contract is your goal, go be a Knick.
 
#89
#89
zjcvols said:
What bench player plays 35 minutes and how would coming off the bench help if he plays 35 minutes a game.
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Cause you offset his minutes from the bulk shooters.

Division of labor makes you more productive. Don't put all the shooters on the floor at once and then all the defenders on the floor at once and then all the rebounders later. It should common sense, but the fact that the Cavs were starting the 4 guys that shoot the most and only 2 decent defenders, tells you they don't understand this.
 
#90
#90
n_huffhines said:
All this proves to me is that Thompson is very underrated and a better fit in the starting 5. Again, Love played hurt all year. He scored efficiently and he rebounded well. That's exactly what they expected from him. It's on them for not getting him more touches.

What is he supposed to do with a PG that shoots 17 fgapg and an SF who handles the ball more than most PGs?

Also, I think differently about bench players than most people. I think getting 35 minutes is what matters. It doesn't matter when.

What other team would Love get 13 FGAs on? It's absurd.
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Or....that Thompson is a better player. Period.
 
#91
#91
n_huffhines said:
Cause you offset his minutes from the bulk shooters.

Division of labor makes you more productive. Don't put all the shooters on the floor at once and then all the defenders on the floor at once and then all the rebounders later. It should common sense, but the fact that the Cavs were starting the 4 guys that shoot the most and only 2 decent defenders, tells you they don't understand this.
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So Kevin Love is a non-starter on a good team, glad we could agree.
 
#92
#92
GahLee said:
If winning titles is the ultimate goal, then you take the role. If playing for pride and a massive contract is your goal, go be a Knick.
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I don't think they can win with him and Irving starting. It's just not a good combo. Too much money tied up in 2 guys that mostly contribute by shooting and you get diminishing returns on that investment when you play them with Lebron.
 
#93
#93
GahLee said:
So Kevin Love is a non-starter on a good team, glad we could agree.
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You know what I'm saying. Ginobili was considered a top 10 player by some (at least top 20), and he was off the bench. He was better than everyone on that team except Duncan.

Pop understands diminishing returns and division of labor. That's why he brings great players off the bench, and that's why he has 5 titles.
 
#94
#94
n_huffhines said:
Cause you offset his minutes from the bulk shooters.

Division of labor makes you more productive. Don't put all the shooters on the floor at once and then all the defenders on the floor at once and then all the rebounders later. It should common sense, but the fact that the Cavs were starting the 4 guys that shoot the most and only 2 decent defenders, tells you they don't understand this.
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I mean I'm not a genius but it got then a two seed and on pace to win the East. Seems like it worked to me.
 
#95
#95
Yankee_Vol said:
I doubt Love re-signs in Cleveland
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Minnesota killed in that trade. I thought it was a really bad trade when it happened. Now it looks even worse.

Cleveland could have a budding star under a rookie contract, instead they got a one year rental of a guy that isn't even playing in the most important games.
 
#96
#96
zjcvols said:
I mean I'm not a genius but it got then a two seed and on pace to win the East. Seems like it worked to me.
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Three seed, right? And everyone expected them to be #1. They are now starting 4 good defenders, since the first round.
 
#97
#97
n_huffhines said:
You know what I'm saying. Ginobili was considered a top 10 player by some (at least top 20), and he was off the bench. He was better than everyone on that team except Duncan.

Pop understands diminishing returns and division of labor. That's why he brings great players off the bench, and that's why he has 5 titles.
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He has 5 titles because he had one of the best players of all-time. Anyone who thought Manu was even relatively close to a top 20 player should have their right to view sports revoked.
 
#98
#98
n_huffhines said:
You know what I'm saying. Ginobili was considered a top 10 player by some (at least top 20), and he was off the bench. He was better than everyone on that team except Duncan.

Pop understands diminishing returns and division of labor. That's why he brings great players off the bench, and that's why he has 5 titles.
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Did Manu ever get a max deal? Put Manu on ANY other team during his career and he's an afterthought.
 
#99
#99
GahLee said:
He has 5 titles because he had one of the best players of all-time. Anyone who thought Manu was even relatively close to a top 20 player should have their right to view sports revoked.
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You're crazy. He was a 2-way guard that could play the point, rebound, score on anyone, and shoot the 3. Dude was amazing.
 
#100
#100
So wait, with Love out, they are a better team. But they should have given him more shots. I don't even get your argument.

Here's the truth. Love is a hell of a player. I think they should have gotten him the ball in the post more but alas. Anyways, basketball teams take to gel. After the Mosgov/Knicks trade, they were the best offensive team and second best record overall. Everyone had a hard time adjusting but once it got rolling it was working beautifully. Did the Kevin Love experiment work? I'm not sure but it was working well.
 
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