3* teams versus 5* one and dones

#26
#26
Something I haven’t heard anyone on here mention is the fact that we don’t have anyone that can consistently drive and finish at the rim or pull up and shoot mid range jumpers over people. I know KC shows flashes of this but still very inconsistent. Also, we have no shooters that can just rise up and shoot(and make) even when guarded, all of our shooters are pure set shooters. On top of these roster flaws we have zero post threat. Poor roster management to me is a major flaw with the current team.
 
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#27
#27
Hbg said:
Something I haven’t heard anyone on here mention is the fact that we don’t have anyone that can consistently drive and finish at the rim or pull up and shoot mid range jumpers over people. I know KC shows flashes of this but still very inconsistent. Also, we have no shooters that can just rise up and shoot(and make) even when guarded, all of our shooters are pure set shooters. On top of these roster flaws we have zero post threat. Poor roster management to me is a major flaw with the current team.
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Apparently you haven't been reading my posts.

I have on numerous occasions mentioned the inability with James to do what you mentioned.

I've also mentioned the ability of our low ability offensive players to develop a mid-range game to the chagrin, criticism, or met with laughter to some on the board that the style I'm talking about is dated.

When you can't drive - James, can't back players consistently Fulky, ORN, then you need to adapt and possibly kill it from around 12 - 15 every chance you get. These guys keep butting their heads in the wall. Puzzling.
 
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#28
#28
The personality of this team is just boring and they look miserable. John Fulkerson looks as disinterested and down on life as I do when I enter a grocery store packed full of women and screaming kids.

Talent is needed, but veteran three star guys are always useful on good teams too.
 
#30
#30
HalfullVol said:
100%

CRB has historically shown here that running the offense through the post man is fundamental for his offense to be successful.

Fulk is broken, still sick or both. No one has developed behind him to be the post scoring presence.

It looks like he may have known that was going to be a weak link going into this year with the increased 3pt shooting.
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I think Barnes truly thought ON was going to be that guy. He’s tried to push, pull, and even talk it into happening, but it just hasn’t happened.
 
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#31
#31
Going into next year and not even being able to secure any of the below guys hurts. In addition to missing out on Banchero and Smith that would have us in the top 5 for sure. It's recruiting plain and simple. Especially a low post defender which we don't have at the moment. It's still early and Barnes tends to finalize his recruits in the latter stages. But look what we have lost out on for next season.


Jalen Hood-Schifino Committed to Indiana on 8/24/21
Julian Phillips Committed to LSU on 10/8/21
KyeRon Lindsay Committed to UNLV on 9/22/21
Brandon Miller Eliminated Tennessee on 9/3/21
Dillon Mitchell Committed to Texas on 10/25/21
Jett Howard Committed to Michigan on 10/13/21
Ernest Udeh Committed to Kansas on 10/20/21
Chandler Jackson Committed to FSU on 10/29/21
Cason Wallace Committed to UK on 11/7/21
 
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#32
#32
If the NBA would go back to drafting out of hs, it would fix a lot of the problem. One and dones are a waste of time and resources, IMO. Coaches simply dont have time to groom/develop a player in 1 year. And UT has not had luck with 1&D's. Theyve been pretty good, but havent helped us win anything of value. AAMOF... I cant remember sny team with a bunches of 1 and done kids that have cut down nets.
 
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#33
#33
GregAmsler said:
When Barnes first arrived at Tennessee and signed the Bone/Williams class, I remember telling friends that he got a chance at a re-start at UT. It seemed to me that Barnes is a really good coach who knows how to build teams and fit different parts together. That’s his talent, just as it was for Bob Knight. Barnes did that at Providence, Clemson, and Texas. But in the latter part (post-KD) of his Texas tenure, his success fell off because, it seemed to me, he started signing a lot of one and dones and couldn’t play to his strength, which was molding true “teams.” Of course, the cache that KD gave him allowed him to sign those top recruits and that had to be tempting.

So, my point that I made to friends was, coming to Tennessee was a restart for him. And he took advantage of it with that Bone/Williams class. I was right. But for some awful officiating at the end of the Purdue game, that team should have made the Elite 8 and maybe Final 4. I thought it would continue because he’d learned to get back to what made him good.

But then, it seems, Barnes fell back into the same trap. His success with the Bone/Williams group allowed him to go sign 5*s again. So he did. He got JJJ, Keon, Jaden, Walker, KC, and BHH. Of course, I rationalized that it would be different this time than at the end of his Texas tenure because he’d mix in the stars with the chemistry guys.

But he seems to be repeating what happened at Texas. They don’t seem to have an identity…just a lot of individual talent. I’m not saying they’re selfish or anything. I just don’t think they have the chemistry that comes with playing multiple years together.

A few points about that:

-Fulkerson is a holdover from that class. He’s never seemed to fit in with the one and done freshmen. It’s always been, they succeed or he succeeds, but never both. He fits better with players like the Bone/Williams group in a team concept.

-Perhaps missing on so many top prospects in next year’s class with be a blessing in disguise. BJ is a 3-4 year PG as is ZZ. Go back and sign some more of those guys at SG, PF, etc. And with Mashack, Aidoo, Tamba, Diboundje, etc. as developmental guys, maybe we’re getting back to Barnes’ comfort zone. Hell, maybe, just maybe, he’s already recognized the problem.

-I mentioned Knight above. I don’t think he’d succeed with a bunch of one and dones. Some coaches can. But Knight wasn’t wired that way and I don’t think Barnes is, either. He needs to develop a basketball TEAM. Which is great, because I’d much rather watch that anyway.
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Many great points in this post. The last two years, it seems to me lack of leadership has been obvious which both Grant and Admiral embodied. Roles don’t seem to be defined and Barnes is left with trying to re-invent the squad and rotation throughout the season. Lastly there appears to be some lack of toughness (both mental and physical) at times. Some players we should be able to rely on, just aren’t reliable in both performance or effort. Early on in his UT coaching tenure, we were outmanned often, but we were gritty and tough. I don’t see it with these last two years. Keon was tough but was erratic and out of control at times. Vescovi I think is tough but isn’t the type of player who can carry a team. Ziegler is tough but is young and small. Mashack may be but don’t have a lot of sample size in which to judge.

I do think Barnes can develop players but how he handles some players with his approach doesn’t work with certain individuals. Grant, Admiral and Bone were tough enough to handle it. Some current players….I seriously doubt. He has been successful at a variety of stops and I expect how he coaches players hasn’t changed much. Recruit players with some chips on their shoulders may be the types of teams that he is more successful with.
 
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#35
#35
GregAmsler said:
When Barnes first arrived at Tennessee and signed the Bone/Williams class, I remember telling friends that he got a chance at a re-start at UT. It seemed to me that Barnes is a really good coach who knows how to build teams and fit different parts together. That’s his talent, just as it was for Bob Knight. Barnes did that at Providence, Clemson, and Texas. But in the latter part (post-KD) of his Texas tenure, his success fell off because, it seemed to me, he started signing a lot of one and dones and couldn’t play to his strength, which was molding true “teams.” Of course, the cache that KD gave him allowed him to sign those top recruits and that had to be tempting.

So, my point that I made to friends was, coming to Tennessee was a restart for him. And he took advantage of it with that Bone/Williams class. I was right. But for some awful officiating at the end of the Purdue game, that team should have made the Elite 8 and maybe Final 4. I thought it would continue because he’d learned to get back to what made him good.

But then, it seems, Barnes fell back into the same trap. His success with the Bone/Williams group allowed him to go sign 5*s again. So he did. He got JJJ, Keon, Jaden, Walker, KC, and BHH. Of course, I rationalized that it would be different this time than at the end of his Texas tenure because he’d mix in the stars with the chemistry guys.

But he seems to be repeating what happened at Texas. They don’t seem to have an identity…just a lot of individual talent. I’m not saying they’re selfish or anything. I just don’t think they have the chemistry that comes with playing multiple years together.

A few points about that:

-Fulkerson is a holdover from that class. He’s never seemed to fit in with the one and done freshmen. It’s always been, they succeed or he succeeds, but never both. He fits better with players like the Bone/Williams group in a team concept.

-Perhaps missing on so many top prospects in next year’s class with be a blessing in disguise. BJ is a 3-4 year PG as is ZZ. Go back and sign some more of those guys at SG, PF, etc. And with Mashack, Aidoo, Tamba, Diboundje, etc. as developmental guys, maybe we’re getting back to Barnes’ comfort zone. Hell, maybe, just maybe, he’s already recognized the problem.

-I mentioned Knight above. I don’t think he’d succeed with a bunch of one and dones. Some coaches can. But Knight wasn’t wired that way and I don’t think Barnes is, either. He needs to develop a basketball TEAM. Which is great, because I’d much rather watch that anyway.
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I think losing Williams, Bone, Pons early hurt him. I don't think anyone is one and done on this squad which could bode well for this year down the stretch and next year let alone your points for future commits. In short I think we agree
 
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#36
#36
Who wants to go to Tennessee to be yelled at by an angry appearing old man? If it were me I would rather play for Kellie Harper.
 
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#37
#37
Not sure about Barnes ability to coach players up. Granted Williams and Schofield improved big time but it was the players who went to the gym every morning to shoot, it was the players who with great determination turned body fat into muscle, and no coach can coach heart, a player either has heart to win or they don't.
 
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#38
#38
Big time vol said:
Not sure about Barnes ability to coach players up. Granted Williams and Schofield improved big time but it was the players who went to the gym every morning to shoot, it was the players who with great determination turned body fat into muscle, and no coach can coach heart, a player either has heart to win or they don't.
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So, Barnes and his staff aren't responsible for developing underrated players...they did it all on their own? Yet, that same coach and staff ARE at fault for not developing the more recent hyped top-30 types?

That seems fair and balanced.
 
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#40
#40
Big time vol said:
Not sure about Barnes ability to coach players up. Granted Williams and Schofield improved big time but it was the players who went to the gym every morning to shoot, it was the players who with great determination turned body fat into muscle, and no coach can coach heart, a player either has heart to win or they don't.
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Do you see the irony in what you’re saying? I mean, why even have a strength coach? Why even have a head coach or assistant coaches? If the players can do it all on their own, why even have organized practices? I mean, I’m really confused by your explanation.
 
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#41
#41
cardvolfan said:
Do you see the irony in what you’re saying? I mean, why even have a strength coach? Why even have a head coach or assistant coaches? If the players can do it all on their own, why even have organized practices? I mean, I’m really confused by your explanation.
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What I'm saying is that both Williams and Schofield had great self discipline to get their bodies in shape for the next level. Do you think it was coaching or self discipline that had them in the gym shooting before the coaching staff was even out of bed?
 
#42
#42
Big time vol said:
What I'm saying is that both Williams and Schofield had great self discipline to get their bodies in shape for the next level. Do you think it was coaching or self discipline that had them in the gym shooting before the coaching staff was even out of bed?
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You could call it a “gentle nudge,” or more than likely, you could call it “tough love.” I have no idea for sure whether those two would have transformed their bodies the way they did without Barnes’ influence, but I doubt they would have to the degree they did. Same goes for work ethic. Maybe, but they most likely received the wake up call from Barnes loud and clear.
 
#43
#43
The biggest question is why aren't other players responding the way Grant and Admiral did.

Grant developed while here, but Grant was also a much better player than his ranking from day one. As a freshman he proved that. He wasn't a guy that slowly came on and was good by year 3. He had multiple 30 points games and multiple 10+ rebound games as a freshman. Rather than development, Barnes or whomever on the staff found him should get a ton of credit for that. Unfortunately, finding diamonds in the rough isn't that easy and we've not found a consistent post player in the Barnes era besides him.
 
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#44
#44
Big time vol said:
What I'm saying is that both Williams and Schofield had great self discipline to get their bodies in shape for the next level. Do you think it was coaching or self discipline that had them in the gym shooting before the coaching staff was even out of bed?
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Maybe that quality is a reason why Barnes recruited them.
 
#49
#49
bleedingTNorange said:
That’s false, he signed in November, while Tyndall was still the coach.
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Barnes still had to recruit him. Schools let players out of their commitments if players change their minds after a coaching change. Coaches don’t have to keep them. Until they are on campus and enrolled it’s not a dine deal. Admiral was playing high school basketball while Texas was firing Barnes.
 
#50
#50
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Barnes still had to recruit him. Schools let players out of their commitments if players change their minds after a coaching change. Coaches don’t have to keep them. Until they are on campus and enrolled it’s not a dine deal. Admiral was playing high school basketball while Texas was firing Barnes.
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You claimed he hadn’t signed, he in fact had, why can’t you just own that instead of trying to distract and deflect and go down some other road?
 
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