3rd Party Ticket?

#26
#26
volsforever27 said:
Bush has made me mad about a lot of things, but Hillary will be worse. Sorry, but it's true.
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My eyes have only welled up once in my life over a political issue. It was the night of the 2000 election when I had the realization that after all was said and done, Bush was going to win the White House. This was not because I was dying to see Gore there - it was because it was obvious we were headed for disaster. Bush has been all that and worse - and if your prediction proves to be true .... then I have no idea how I am going to take that.
 
#29
#29
TennTradition said:
My eyes have only welled up once in my life over a political issue. It was the night of the 2000 election when I had the realization that after all was said and done, Bush was going to win the White House. This was not because I was dying to see Gore there - it was because it was obvious we were headed for disaster. Bush has been all that and worse - and if your prediction proves to be true .... then I have no idea how I am going to take that.
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You seem like a reasonable guy, but I don't get this one. Can you explain what disaster and worse we have experienced? Note, I really am not a huge of Bush.
 
#30
#30
TennTradition said:
With the possible exception of ANWR...doesn't sound too hair-brained to me.
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We'll leave the idea of manmade CO2 as a signifant contributor to climate change for another thread...

The idea that CO2 is even considered a pollutant is laughable.

And what good would it do to increase the cost of fuel and cripple the economy? Are they gonna take the revenue earned and invest in alternative energy solutions? :eek:lol:

The lottery will be used for education, also. :crazy:
 
#31
#31
allvol123 said:
You seem like a reasonable guy, but I don't get this one. Can you explain what disaster and worse we have experienced? Note, I really am not a huge of Bush.
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Disaster is likely a strong word...I agree. Perhaps I should say "it was obvious we were headed for some really, really, really, really crappy times and policies - and we got that and worse." It isn't that I demand my President to be a genius - but Bush always struck me as an idiot...and a dangerous one. He always seemed smug, way too self-assured (which is dangerous when you're assured of a self that leaves a lot to be desired), and..well..reckless. I think that these factors have played out into an ill-advised war (that could have at least been planned better, especially planning for the aftermath, if we were going to go fight it), a ballooning debt, strained relations with our allies, and questionable domestic policies....the sum of which is worse than I had imagined.
 
#32
#32
allvol123 said:
You seem like a reasonable guy, but I don't get this one. Can you explain what disaster and worse we have experienced? Note, I really am not a huge of Bush.
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I'll answer this one, AllVol. He was the architect behind the 9/11 attacks. He, along with Cheney and Rumsfeld, created a hurricane to remove black people from New Orleans. And, to cap everything off, he forced non-homeowners to accept flexible rate mortgages so that they could have houses for two years and then he pulled the rug out from beneath them.
 
#33
#33
Rasputin_Vol said:
We'll leave the idea of manmade CO2 as a signifant contributor to climate change for another thread...

The idea that CO2 is even considered a pollutant is laughable.

And what good would it do to increase the cost of fuel and cripple the economy? Are they gonna take the revenue earned and invest in alternative energy solutions? :eek:lol:

The lottery will be used for education, also. :crazy:
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I hope to begin working on a energy innovation study right now where we hope to answer and provide policy options/suggestions to the government on some of those questions. Obviously, it would be great to spur innovation through appropriate levels of investment of revenues collected through a carbon tax. That funding could be distributed through something similar to DARPA, perhaps an ARPA-E. You would pretty much have to word the energy bill accordingly, or it would never happen....and I agree - putting that kind of money into congress' greedy hands is a little - scratch that - very scary...unless the use of the revenues is heavily restricted by the language of the authorizing legislation.
 
#34
#34
TennTradition said:
Disaster is likely a strong word...I agree. Perhaps I should say "it was obvious we were headed for some really, really, really, really crappy times and policies - and we got that and worse." It isn't that I demand my President to be a genius - but Bush always struck me as an idiot...and a dangerous one. He always seemed smug, way too self-assured (which is dangerous when your assured of a self that leaves a lot to be desired), and..well..reckless. I think that these factors have played out into an ill-advised war (that could have at least been planned better, especially planning for the aftermath, if we were going to go fight it), a ballooning debt, strained relations with our allies, and questionable domestic policies....the sum of which is worse than I had imagined.
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"Nations don't have friends they have interests." It is more favorable for to our national interests do act almost unilaterally in Iraq than to have not acted. Also, Bush simply guides the decision on whether or not we should go to war. He does sit down and war game with the Generals, nor should he (LBJ should have taught everyone that lesson.)
 
#35
#35
TennTradition said:
I hope to begin working on a energy innovation study right now where we hope to answer and provide policy options/suggestions to the government on some of those questions. Obviously, it would be great to spur innovation through appropriate levels of investment of revenues collected through a carbon tax. That funding could be distributed through something similar to DARPA, perhaps an ARPA-E. You would pretty much have to word the energy bill accordingly, or it would never happen....and I agree - putting that kind of money into congress' greedy hands is a little - scratch that - very scary...unless the use of the revenues is heavily restricted by the language of the authorizing legislation.
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God forbid you let private investors try to tackle this on their own. More government knows best mentality...hooray!!!
 
#36
#36
therealUT said:
I'll answer this one, AllVol. He was the architect behind the 9/11 attacks. He, along with Cheney and Rumsfeld, created a hurricane to remove black people from New Orleans. And, to cap everything off, he forced non-homeowners to accept flexible rate mortgages so that they could have houses for two years and then he pulled the rug out from beneath them.
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I would appreciate it if you would not ascribe VKs beliefs onto me, trUT.
 
#37
#37
therealUT said:
"Nations don't have friends they have interests." It is more favorable for to our national interests do act almost unilaterally in Iraq than to have not acted. Also, Bush simply guides the decision on whether or not we should go to war. He does sit down and war game with the Generals, nor should he (LBJ should have taught everyone that lesson.)
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When I think strained relations with our allies, I am thinking of international efforts like the European missile defense system more than our unilateral efforts in Iraq.

Can the President not make the decision to not go to war if he doesn't feel the military's plans are adequate?
 
#38
#38
TennTradition said:
I hope to begin working on a energy innovation study right now where we hope to answer and provide policy options/suggestions to the government on some of those questions. Obviously, it would be great to spur innovation through appropriate levels of investment of revenues collected through a carbon tax. That funding could be distributed through something similar to DARPA, perhaps an ARPA-E. You would pretty much have to word the energy bill accordingly, or it would never happen....and I agree - putting that kind of money into congress' greedy hands is a little - scratch that - very scary...unless the use of the revenues is heavily restricted by the language of the authorizing legislation.
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You don't need to raise taxes to fund this project. If it is that important, we should try to consider cutting spending in other areas. I'm sure the US gov't has $10-30 billion floating around somewhere.
 
#39
#39
therealUT said:
God forbid you let private investors try to tackle this on their own. More government knows best mentality...hooray!!!
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There will certainly be private investment in this effort. However, in general, private investment is limited to technologies that are within 2 years of implementation. This is where you will see the majority of private investment. My guess is that government investment would be heavily limited in this area to support technologies on a 5-15 year time-frame.
 
#40
#40
TennTradition said:
Disaster is likely a strong word...I agree. Perhaps I should say "it was obvious we were headed for some really, really, really, really crappy times and policies - and we got that and worse." It isn't that I demand my President to be a genius - but Bush always struck me as an idiot...and a dangerous one. He always seemed smug, way too self-assured (which is dangerous when you're assured of a self that leaves a lot to be desired), and..well..reckless. I think that these factors have played out into an ill-advised war (that could have at least been planned better, especially planning for the aftermath, if we were going to go fight it), a ballooning debt, strained relations with our allies, and questionable domestic policies....the sum of which is worse than I had imagined.
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1) Personally, the past 7 years have been OK for me. I will admit the POTUS has a very minuscule affect on my life, in my opinion. As much distaste I have for the current candidates, I take comfort in this view that they impact my life on a failry limited basis.
2) You were probably anti-war, so you would have criticized it no matter what, is my guess. Things seems to be going OK in Iraq right now and if they are able to develop into a solid stable country - Bush will need to be lauded in massive waves for sticking to something he got raked over the coals for.
3) ballooning debt? they all spend too much money for my tastes.
4) strained relations with allies? I prefer people stick to their principles and not stick their finger in the air. I am not bothered by anything we have done to piss our "allies" off.
 
#41
#41
therealUT said:
"Nations don't have friends they have interests." It is more favorable for to our national interests do act almost unilaterally in Iraq than to have not acted. Also, Bush simply guides the decision on whether or not we should go to war. He does sit down and war game with the Generals, nor should he (LBJ should have taught everyone that lesson.)
Click to expand...

Vietnam should have taught us not to go onto foreign soil and pussyfoot around and not tick of the liberals at home and abroad, but to go in and win at all costs.

You gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette.
 
#42
#42
TennTradition said:
When I think strained relations with our allies, I am thinking of international efforts like the European missile defense system more than our unilateral efforts in Iraq.

Can the President not make the decision to not go to war if he doesn't feel the military's plans are adequate?
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You make it seem so simple, like it is a game of Risk. You want the President to state that the plans seem inadequate on a whim? All the intelligence, US and foreign sourced, from the past 15 years pointing towards a quick end to the war and little to no insurgency. I assume you would have seen the tarot card lady or consulted your magic mirror?
 
#43
#43
Rasputin_Vol said:
You don't need to raise taxes to fund this project. If it is that important, we should try to consider cutting spending in other areas. I'm sure the US gov't has $10-30 billion floating around somewhere.
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Yeah..I don't mean to give the impression that the reason for the carbon tax is solely to shift to alternative energy. If there were no externalities forcing this issue, then as fossil supplies dwindle, prices will increase, and private investment will flow into cheaper or more available/renewable technologies. Because of the lead time and the questionable supply of oil (world threats) ... then the market might be caught with its pants down without appropriate risk planning in this area - but in general it would be better at this than the government.

The fundamental reason you and I will disagree on the carbon tax is man-made climate change. I believe it will be a problem, you don't. Because I believe it will be a problem, I see a need for a carbon tax to curb fossil fuel use - and the revenue collected through that tax could be used to fuel energy innovation.

Honestly, I don't think we will see a carbon tax anyway. However, a cap and trade solution is quite likely, IMO.
 
#44
#44
therealUT said:
I'll answer this one, AllVol. He was the architect behind the 9/11 attacks. He, along with Cheney and Rumsfeld, created a hurricane to remove black people from New Orleans. And, to cap everything off, he forced non-homeowners to accept flexible rate mortgages so that they could have houses for two years and then he pulled the rug out from beneath them.
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:eek:lol:That is a fairly accurate list. But I am confident the list is longer.
 
#45
#45
allvol123 said:
4) strained relations with allies? I prefer people stick to their principles and not stick their finger in the air. I am not bothered by anything we have done to piss our "allies" off.
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I think that our actions with regard to the European missile defense system have been extremely cavalier and ill-advised. We have lied to our allies and alarmed an old enemy. I'm not excited about either of these. There is no reason for it.....the system doesn't work well enough to be doing this.
 
#46
#46
TennTradition said:
There will certainly be private investment in this effort. However, in general, private investment is limited to technologies that are within 2 years of implementation. This is where you will see the majority of private investment. My guess is that government investment would be heavily limited in this area to support technologies on a 5-15 year time-frame.
Click to expand...

5-15 years timeframe would be very optimistic. If it was so easy to come up with new technologies, would have japan come up with something that is commercially viable right now? That country has to import nearly all of it's oil and the best they've come out with are these hybrids that have a 5-7 year usable lifespan.
 
#47
#47
therealUT said:
You make it seem so simple, like it is a game of Risk. You want the President to state that the plans seem inadequate on a whim? All the intelligence, US and foreign sourced, from the past 15 years pointing towards a quick end to the war and little to no insurgency. I assume you would have seen the tarot card lady or consulted your magic mirror?
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I'm sorry...I was under the impression that the military engaged in contingency planning. My mistake.
 
#49
#49
Rasputin_Vol said:
5-15 years timeframe would be very optimistic. If it was so easy to come up with new technologies, would have japan come up with something that is commercially viable right now? That country has to import nearly all of it's oil and the best they've come out with are these hybrids that have a 5-7 year usable lifespan.
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A lot of the 5-15 year efforts would be in buildings/construction and energy efficiency...where A LOT of gains can be made. However, yes....even 15 years is optimistic for many energy innovations. I don't know what an fully appropriate time-table is...but I would say that putting a lot of money in technologies that are more than 15-30 years away would probably just be throwing it away...those technologies seem to stay 30 years away (fusion)
 
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