4th n Short and No Under Center?

#27
#27
I actually like the call to go for it on 4th both times. The second time momentum was shifting heavy to Bama and he was trying to stop it. I understand why he did it. He thought Bama would score again regardless. But snapping in shotgun and running up the middle is crazy. They need a jumbo package for situations like this 4th and 1 and when you have in 1st and goal from the 5. They should be able to run it in for the TD. Or a fake run and pass over the middle Tebow style or Peyton scramble to sideline or something else unexpected than run up middle from shotgun. Last year(and some this year) I was the most concerned on offense on 3rd and short and defense on 3rd and 15, which is crazy.
 
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#28
#28
ftsandersvol said:
When you have a 6’ 4” 240 pound QB on a 4th down and less than one yard even a five year old knows to line him up under center and do a QB sneak. If nothing else you might get the DL to jump.
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If you don't rep it in practice, you don't do it in the game and if you are committed to the gun, it makes no sense to rep under center. Tebow set a rushing TD record and a lot of those was goal line from the gun.
 
#29
#29
PhillyRealtor said:
We have a huge QB (that has trouble making decisions) running out of shotgun on 4th and short. Why?
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Modern football. This is where I launch into one of those old guy stories by saying "back in my day"... but I won't.
 
#30
#30
Vol8188 said:
As a guy who primarily coached shotgun I see it exactly the opposite. I see the risk being a fumbled snap at the line of scrimmage where the other team is closer to the football because we tried doing something we aren’t used to.

Rather than a shotgun snap which if missed we are more likely to recover and it’s something we do more often
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However, any team should practice under center snaps for game situations such as 4th and short. And if you can't handle that I question how in the world are you a d1 scholarship player.
 
#31
#31
Visiting Dawg said:
If you don't rep it in practice, you don't do it in the game and if you are committed to the gun, it makes no sense to rep under center. Tebow set a rushing TD record and a lot of those was goal line from the gun.
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But most of them on 4th and short were under center and everyone knew what they were gona do but it still worked for Fla.
 
#32
#32
cgrish said:
However, any team should practice under center snaps for game situations such as 4th and short. And if you can't handle that I question how in the world are you a d1 scholarship player.
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They’re still humans and the more you give humans to do, the worse they’ll do those things. That’s why some coaches don’t allow WRs to play on different sides or only run 8-12 total plays.

Being a D1 football player just means you move really well for your size, that doesn’t make you more capable at all the things in life than others.
 
#33
#33
Vol8188 said:
As a guy who primarily coached shotgun I see it exactly the opposite. I see the risk being a fumbled snap at the line of scrimmage where the other team is closer to the football because we tried doing something we aren’t used to.

Rather than a shotgun snap which if missed we are more likely to recover and it’s something we do more often
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So you are still turning the ball over on downs with your assessment. Unless the defense is too slow to react.
 
#34
#34
Pickle1 said:
So you are still turning the ball over on downs with your assessment. Unless the defense is too slow to react.
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I have no clue what you’re saying. Turning the ball over on downs isn’t a matter of under center or out of the gun.
 
#35
#35
cgrish said:
However, any team should practice under center snaps for game situations such as 4th and short. And if you can't handle that I question how in the world are you a d1 scholarship player.
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Admittedly, it's just not part of the game anymore so it's not a focus in practice. Having said that, I agree with you. When it comes to 4th and 1 or a goal line situation, you need to be under center. I just can't imagine a 230lb QB with an OL full of 300lb guys and a couple of OL/DL weighing the same not being able to push a DL with a couple of LB back a yard or two. Why we persist in outsmarting ourselves is maddening. The KISS rule seems appropriate. Why is power football "antiquated" in situations like this? Maybe it's the OG in me, but man, I do miss fullbacks and a power running game. And who says you can't be explosive with a fullback?
 
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#36
#36
Vol8188 said:
I have no clue what you’re saying. Turning the ball over on downs isn’t a matter of under center or out of the gun.
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You said that in the shotgun you had more time to recover a fumble, which is true, but it also means that the defense has more time to react. That’s what I meant!
 
#37
#37
Pickle1 said:
You said that in the shotgun you had more time to recover a fumble, which is true, but it also means that the defense has more time to react. That’s what I meant!
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That was in reference to end of game kneeling. Fumbled snaps don’t matter on fourth down plays. It’s no different than simply failing to get the yards.
 
#38
#38
Vol8188 said:
As a guy who primarily coached shotgun I see it exactly the opposite. I see the risk being a fumbled snap at the line of scrimmage where the other team is closer to the football because we tried doing something we aren’t used to.

Rather than a shotgun snap which if missed we are more likely to recover and it’s something we do more often
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Yep. Or like in the aTm game when the QB got stepped on on 4th down. I don't mind coming out in shotgun, what I hate is running straight into the teeth of the defense. These 4th down calls clearly demonstrate 1 thing. The coaches do not trust Joe. That simple.
 
#39
#39
K-town Vol Fan said:
Yep. Or like in the aTm game when the QB got stepped on on 4th down. I don't mind coming out in shotgun, what I hate is running straight into the teeth of the defense. These 4th down calls clearly demonstrate 1 thing. The coaches do not trust Joe. That simple.
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The coaches gave him the ball on at least one fourth down, which looked like a QB read. And honestly I have no issue with "running straight into the teeth of the defense". Your ability to run inside zone is what allows your to do all the other things. We just have to be better at running inside zone on 4th and short so the QB keep becomes more effective instead of being stopped inches short like it was Saturday. The same with boot plays off inside zone. All of those work better once we prove we can run straight into the teeth of the defense (we converted at least one 3rd and short by doing that).
 
#40
#40
Pickle1 said:
So you are still turning the ball over on downs with your assessment. Unless the defense is too slow to react.
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The idea that gaining a first down on 4th and short out of the gun is dependent on "the defense is too slow to react", is nonsensical. Some defenses by design react slow. Other defenses by design react fast. Both of those defenses are susceptible to 4th and short conversions out of the shotgun.
 
#41
#41
Vol8188 said:
The coaches gave him the ball on at least one fourth down, which looked like a QB read. And honestly I have no issue with "running straight into the teeth of the defense". Your ability to run inside zone is what allows your to do all the other things. We just have to be better at running inside zone on 4th and short so the QB keep becomes more effective instead of being stopped inches short like it was Saturday. The same with boot plays off inside zone. All of those work better once we prove we can run straight into the teeth of the defense (we converted at least one 3rd and short by doing that).
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The strength of Bama's defense is their interior DL. If you're going to run on 4th and 1 it has to be outside. You just can't run straight in to when that's exactly what they're expecting. Can't do it.
 
#42
#42
K-town Vol Fan said:
The strength of Bama's defense is their interior DL. If you're going to run on 4th and 1 it has to be outside. You just can't run straight in to when that's exactly what they're expecting. Can't do it.
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We did it on 3rd and short with success. If it works on 3rd and short it can work on 4th.
 
#43
#43
Sorry if this has already been discussed here as I don’t read this board at all now like I used to but I was hoping to check my old man memory for accuracy


I am certain we were really good last year on short yardage. My memory tells me Hooker was really Good under Center on the sneak. Is that correct .. did hooker go under center on 3rd/4th and short??



I don’t recall Joe trying a QB sneak all year or being under Center. Have we tried it???






One last thing. I’m sure the mood around here sucks… but damn we need to have learned something from the last 20 years. If this team goes 9-3 that’s one hell of a good year
 
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#44
#44
Maybe JM3 can't take a snap under center or has difficulties with it.
 
#45
#45
Volz4lif3 said:
Because Tennessee has a QB with all the physical tools of a good QB but doesn’t have the instinct or mental presence of one.. and that’s just the truth. He drives me nuts when he doesn’t understand where the first down line is or when he throws horizontal when Tennessee needs vertical… like down the field Touchdowns.. it’s frustrating but I have hope with CJH unlike previous coaching staffs.
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This has nothing to do with running a QB sneak. Heupel did it before with success. It has nothing to do with Joe and everything to do with a horrible play call by Heupel.
 
#46
#46
K-town Vol Fan said:
The strength of Bama's defense is their interior DL. If you're going to run on 4th and 1 it has to be outside. You just can't run straight in to when that's exactly what they're expecting. Can't do it.
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Don’t tell me we couldn’t have ran a QB sneak and gotten it.
 
#48
#48
Vol8188 said:
As a guy who primarily coached shotgun I see it exactly the opposite. I see the risk being a fumbled snap at the line of scrimmage where the other team is closer to the football because we tried doing something we aren’t used to.

Rather than a shotgun snap which if missed we are more likely to recover and it’s something we do more often
Click to expand...
Visiting Dawg said:
If you don't rep it in practice, you don't do it in the game and if you are committed to the gun, it makes no sense to rep under center. Tebow set a rushing TD record and a lot of those was goal line from the gun.
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We ran a QB sneak against Virginia and it worked
 
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