5 Best Hitters in Baseball

#51
#51
hatvol96 said:
I'd still view him the same way I look at Carew and Gwynn. Slap hitters who get a whole lot of meaningless singles. It's not a coincidence that those three have combined for exactly 0 World Series rings.
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What do you mean by meaningless?

If Ichiro is getting a lot of meaningless singles, he's also getting a lot of meaningful singles, as evidenced by his .429 average with runners in scoring position.
 
#52
#52
hatvol96 said:
I'm talking more about value to one's team more than individual excellence. Williams also had a pretty good excuse. The Yankees were pretty good during his career. The Indians also put some fair teams on the field in that era. The Cardinal team the Sox lost to in '46 had a few notable players on their roster.
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Imagine what the Padres would've been like without Gwynn.
 
#53
#53
wbarron said:
What do you mean by meaningless?

If Ichiro is getting a lot of meaningless singles, he's also getting a lot of meaningful singles, as evidenced by his .429 average with runners in scoring position.
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It means exactly what it says. All three of those guys have a boatload of hits, but you can count the meaningful hits all three of them have gotten in a pennant race or the post season on your fingers. Everybody else can have ping hitters at the top of their lineup winning batting titles and nothing else. I'll take guys like Rickey Henderson and Paul Molitor who actually drive the ball and win World Championships.
 
#54
#54
Bonds was on some good team with the Pirates too. Other than the world series weren't his postseason stats terrible.

career postseason avg. 245 with 9 hr and and 24 rbi in 48 games.

16 of those rbi's and 8 hr came in the 2002 postseason.

So other than 1 postseason he was of little value to his team when they needed him most.
 
#56
#56
JZVOL said:
Bonds was on some good team with the Pirates too. Other than the world series weren't his postseason stats terrible.

career postseason avg. 245 with 9 hr and and 24 rbi in 48 games.

16 of those rbi's and 8 hr came in the 2002 postseason.

So other than 1 postseason he was of little value to his team when they needed him most.
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At least Bonds was carrying teams to the postseason with regularity. That's more than can be said for the three banjo hitters I mentioned.
 
#57
#57
hatvol96 said:
Who cares? They weren't relevant with him.
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To say someone is a better hitter than someone else simply b/c his team made it to the postseason more often is ludicrous, and you know that.

If that were the case, we should put Mark Lemke and Jim Leyritz on this list.
 
#59
#59
hatvol96 said:
At least Bonds was carrying teams to the postseason with regularity. That's more than can be said for the three banjo hitters I mentioned.
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In 22 season he's only been to the postseason 7 times.
 
#60
#60
JZVOL said:
Didn't Gwynn play in more world series than Bonds?
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How many times in his career was Gwynn playing meaningful games in September? He was surrounded for a season by Jack Clark, Joe Carter, and a near Triple Crown winning Gary Sheffield. They won nothing. All three of those guys are better than anyone Bonds has ever played with. However, Barry's teams have almost always been plaing games tha matter at the end of the season. Also, Gwynn didn't even have enough pride in himself or respect for the game to stay in shape. In his last few years, he was just a fat guy hanging around to get to 3,000 hits.
 
#62
#62
JZVOL said:
In 22 season he's only been to the postseason 7 times.
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Which I believe is more than the three Punch and Judys combined. Also, there are at least 4 or 5 other seasons in which the Giants went to the last couple of weeks in contention. Gwynn, Carew, and Ichiro have spent most of their Septembers hitting against minor league callups in games that mean nothing in front of 15,000 people.
 
#63
#63
To say though he carried his teams to the postseason with regularity isn't true though.
 
#64
#64
hatvol96 said:
Also, Gwynn didn't even have enough pride in himself or respect for the game to stay in shape. In his last few years, he was just a fat guy hanging around to get to 3,000 hits.
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So, is that the true reason for your subtle (though becoming less so) bashing of Tony Gwynn? If so, fine. But don't diss his hitting ability, please.
 
#66
#66
hatvol96 said:
Which I believe is more than the three Punch and Judys combined. Also, there are at least 4 or 5 other seasons in which the Giants went to the last couple of weeks in contention. Gwynn, Carew, and Ichiro have spent most of their Septembers hitting against minor league callups in games that mean nothing in front of 15,000 people.
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:eek:lol: That's pretty funny actually.

IMO there really is no way anyone could take those three over pre or post 'roids Barry.
 
#67
#67
hatvol96 said:
He's tested positive for steroids how many times?
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Considering they can't even test for hgh that's not relevant. Anyone who thinks he wasn't on something is fooling themselves.

He "might" have used the clear but he isn't sure of everything he uses.... right.
 
#68
#68
hatvol96 said:
Also, there are at least 4 or 5 other seasons in which the Giants went to the last couple of weeks in contention. .
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Curious as to why you are such a Bonds fan? He seems to be the type of athlete you normally despise, a stat guy with no championships. You would normally scoff at the type of argument that you have posted above.
 
#71
#71
hatvol96 said:
That's exactly what he's done. He's also done it with a collection of stiffs as teammates.
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7 out of 22 times? That must be why was so bad once he got to the postseason- he was so tired from carrying his team there.
 
#72
#72
wbarron said:
So, is that the true reason for your subtle (though becoming less so) bashing of Tony Gwynn? If so, fine. But don't diss his hitting ability, please.
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Tony Gwynn was a great hitter, if you're looking for batting crowns. He's not a hitter that opposing teams game plan around. Ditto Carew, Rose, etc.
 
#73
#73
1.) B. Bonds, he has about 23-24 inches of wood to make contact with, scary!
2.) Vlad the Impaler
3.) T. Helton
4.) M. Ordonez
5.) M. Ramirez
 
#75
#75
allvol123 said:
Curious as to why you are such a Bonds fan? He seems to be the type of athlete you normally despise, a stat guy with no championships. You would normally scoff at the type of argument that you have posted above.
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Look where Bonds has played and who he's played with over the years. He could have behaved like Roger Clemens and jumped to the Yankees or Braves to bandwagon his way to a ring. Instead he's tried to do it on his own. How many times have the Pirates been to the postseason since he left? How many times had the Giants been in the postseason since moving to the Bay before he arrived? The fact that the three best players Bonds has ever played with are Bobby Bonilla, Matt Williams, and Jeff Kent makes what he and the teams he has played on even more amazing.
 
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