9/11 Conspiracy Thread

[LouderVol]

Just as i suspected. Because they question, their findings are invalid. Yet because the government put their findings, everything is completely legit and accurate.

The government clearly has your best interest at heart and has never lied to you. Wow.

no, their findings are invalid because they only look at one specific piece of the puzzle. and that piece of the puzzle they do look at they ignore facts (there was fire and impact damage).

I question everything before the actual collision at the towers. the rest after that is physics.

again they don't even really argue specifics of the NIST report, they argue the end conclusion but do nothing about the numbers NIST presents. and yes considering I studied this very report in school I feel I can dismiss them when they don't present a different argument.

and as stated before this article and associated links have been presented before so we are again just circling back.

 

[LouderVol]

Like I said, those who question anything about the official report are immediately invalidated.

The government has never lied and its especially not lying about 9/11. Keep thinking your training is better than other peoples though.

no counter argument? Not going to break down any of his points? Refute or even challenge something?

I was actually hoping for another video or link we have already discussed and poked holes in.

Of course you will say "whats the point you won't believe" and yet our side has done that very thing even though we know you guys won't listen. just admit you can't actually make an argument and you are just disagreeing because you want to believe.

 

[LouderVol]

So from the the first impact to the second impact, not only did the mass increase, but the velocity increased as well (from 18 mph to 24 mph)?


How is this conservation of energy? Conservation of energy would be m1v1 = m2v2. But in this example, m1v1 < m2v2.

Does this make sense? :crazy:

yes it does. 9.8m/s translates to about 20mph IIRC. that is acceleration. so in fact the numbers you just presented as speed prove what we are saying. Acceleration was decreased below what it could have been. the delta (acceleration) you present is only 6mph; which is far less than free fall. lol:

 

[ajvol01]

yes it does. 9.8m/s translates to about 20mph IIRC. that is acceleration. so in fact the numbers you just presented as speed prove what we are saying. Acceleration was decreased below what it could have been. the delta (acceleration) you present is only 6mph; which is far less than free fall. lol:

Wonder if he understands the difference between acceleration and velocity.

 

[Orangedogsrule]

About half of all Americans don't believe in the official story...dickhead!

Look in the mirror

 

[Orangedogsrule]

yes it does. 9.8m/s translates to about 20mph IIRC. that is acceleration. so in fact the numbers you just presented as speed prove what we are saying. Acceleration was decreased below what it could have been. the delta (acceleration) you present is only 6mph; which is far less than free fall. lol:

C'mon Louder...9.8 m/s^2=32.2 ft/s^2=acceleration of gravity.

 

[LouderVol]

Dude, I don't do math anymore. That is why we have engineers. I just work with concepts.

 

[Orangedogsrule]

Dude, I don't do math anymore. That is why we have engineers. I just work with concepts.

And thus the "Frickin Artycrafts" vs "Just a frickin engineer" since post & lintel became a thang.

 

[LouderVol]

Back in the good ole days it was all one in the same. The Master Builders were architects, engineers and builder.

 

[Orangedogsrule]

Just dropping these links in here regarding WTC7:

WTC7

http://ine.uaf.edu/media/92216/wtc7-structural-reevaluation_progress-report_2017-9-7.pdf

Brief quote: "At the macro-level, progressive collapse, i.e., the structural system’s response to local failures, is being studied using SAP2000 with wire elements, as well as with ABAQUS, and it is near completion. The findings thus far are that fire did not bring down this building. Building failure simulations show that, to match observation, the entire inner core of this building failed nearly simultaneously."

Study conducted by engineers, but funded by "truthers", so I'm sure it will be criticized for all of the usual reasons.

On a more general note, it's difficult not to notice in this thread, and at other places where the topic is discussed, that people frequently rely on models, simulations, experts, superior experts, consensus among experts, etc. That goes for sources on both sides of the aisle, including the ones I've posted above. Over the years, I've developed a serious distrust of anyone who relies too heavily on such things. Any time a computer model or expert is trotted out in support of something, I immediately start with the premise that I'm being misled (at best) or outright lied to. Chaos theory suggests that, to successfully model anything that happens in reality would require an exact replica of the entire universe. An even basic understanding of that concept should put to rest any reliance on computer modeling to prove anything. And where to even begin with "experts" and any so-called consensus among such experts? It's laughable.

On page 31 a graphic representation of the joist girder A2001 (W33x130) to the boxed column No.7 (W14x730 w/ 2x26 side plates) is shown.

So looking at a steel book the column base flange width (bf) is 17.9" and the joist girder bf is 11.5" and is set off the col a maximum of 2" canted at 85.83° off the transverse CenterLine (CL) of Col 7. The side plates thus extend beyond the Col.7 flanges 1.78". Note 1.78"<2.0".

The Page 28 graphic shows the canted end of A2001 with the larger 2" space at the corner of the girder towards the interior of the building opposite joists to the exterior wall. So any thermal expansion of those joists opens up the gap.

Now, the accepted scenario is the combined force resulting from the expansion the floor joists between exterior wall Cols 32 to 42 easily overcome the steeply angled joists attaching between exterior wall Cols 45 & 46. This would result in a counter clockwise twisting moment on Col 7 that, under heated conditions would OPEN UP the gap of 2". This is greater than the extension of the side plate 1.78" beyond the column flange, AND THUS CANNOT SNAG THE JOIST GIRDER PREVENTING FAILURE AS CLAIMED IN THIS PAPER.

Also, BUT NOT LEAST AND CRITICAL TO THE WHOLE ARGUMENT!, on Page 32 is a finite element model with words claiming A2001 is trapped by the side plate.

Look very closely and note that the computer model DOES NOT INCLUDE THE CANTED ANGLE and is INCORRECTLY, INCORRECTLY! modeled as a straight line through Col 7!

Which would have made no difference anyway, as the design calls for the 2" standoff of the end of A2001 from the outside flange face and is very nearly 1/4" outside of the side plate extension. There can be no "trapping".

This project, is so flawed it is obviously performed by students under their instructors guidance. It is not acceptable as a rebuttal of the accepted Bldg. 7 mechanism of failure.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

no counter argument? Not going to break down any of his points? Refute or even challenge something?

I was actually hoping for another video or link we have already discussed and poked holes in.

Of course you will say "whats the point you won't believe" and yet our side has done that very thing even though we know you guys won't listen. just admit you can't actually make an argument and you are just disagreeing because you want to believe.

This is part of the huge problem. I would be willing to be that virtually nobody on this board is qualified enough, in real life, to poke holes in any of the theories presented on 9/11. You can find articles and links by other scientists and government stooges but thats about it. I dont actually debate the math because I dont know enough about it. Thats why I posted stuff from other scientists.

Here is my argument. Nobody knows everything about 9/11. The governments report on its official findings have been questioned by legitimate scientists. Their opinions and conclusions are equally as valid as the ones who agree with the NIST report. You can claim otherwise but you are wrong. If you dont believe the government can willfully lie to the American people then you are a lost cause.

So you can claim all you want that 9/11 happened exactly like the government said. You can also believe that the NIST report is accurate and that everyone who believes or questions otherwise are dumb. Thats fine. It still doesnt change the fact that there are many inconsistencies that have never and likely will never be cleared up. I believe the government is lying to us and covering something up about 9/11. Exactly what? I have no idea.

 

[MG1968]

This is part of the huge problem. I would be willing to be that virtually nobody on this board is qualified enough, in real life, to poke holes in any of the theories presented on 9/11. You can find articles and links by other scientists and government stooges but thats about it. I dont actually debate the math because I dont know enough about it. Thats why I posted stuff from other scientists.

Here is my argument. Nobody knows everything about 9/11. The governments report on its official findings have been questioned by legitimate scientists. Their opinions and conclusions are equally as valid as the ones who agree with the NIST report. You can claim otherwise but you are wrong. If you dont believe the government can willfully lie to the American people then you are a lost cause.

So you can claim all you want that 9/11 happened exactly like the government said. You can also believe that the NIST report is accurate and that everyone who believes or questions otherwise are dumb. Thats fine. It still doesnt change the fact that there are many inconsistencies that have never and likely will never be cleared up. I believe the government is lying to us and covering something up about 9/11. Exactly what? I have no idea.

The absence of evidence of a conspiracy is proof that there actually is a conspiracy.

People are strange.

 

[LouderVol]

This is part of the huge problem. I would be willing to be that virtually nobody on this board is qualified enough, in real life, to poke holes in any of the theories presented on 9/11. You can find articles and links by other scientists and government stooges but thats about it. I dont actually debate the math because I dont know enough about it. Thats why I posted stuff from other scientists.

Here is my argument. Nobody knows everything about 9/11. The governments report on its official findings have been questioned by legitimate scientists. Their opinions and conclusions are equally as valid as the ones who agree with the NIST report. You can claim otherwise but you are wrong. If you dont believe the government can willfully lie to the American people then you are a lost cause.

So you can claim all you want that 9/11 happened exactly like the government said. You can also believe that the NIST report is accurate and that everyone who believes or questions otherwise are dumb. Thats fine. It still doesnt change the fact that there are many inconsistencies that have never and likely will never be cleared up. I believe the government is lying to us and covering something up about 9/11. Exactly what? I have no idea.

I already told you. I question everything but the collapses.

and as one of their peers I believe I can disagree with them without it being a case of buying every government lie.

do you honestly believe, even if there was no conspiracy at all, that every question could be answered about the collapse of 100+ story towers with thousands of people in them?

 

[AirVol]

Don’t know if any airlines that have planes with no windows. Just saying.

 

[Orangedogsrule]

Don’t know if any airlines that have planes with no windows. Just saying.

Link?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Wonder if he understands the difference between acceleration and velocity.

If I didn't, I wouldn't have continued to stress the significance of sec^2 in the denominator of the force equation.

 

[ajvol01]

If I didn't, I wouldn't have continued to stress the significance of sec^2 in the denominator of the force equation.

Well then I guess you also know that when acceleration is greater than zero velocity is increasing.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Well then I guess you also know that when acceleration is greater than zero velocity is increasing.

That would be correct. No arguments from me about that fact you just stated.

 

[UT-Rex]

Transformers etc. we have been over this too

if it was explosives at the bottom why did it collapse a level at a time?

people are terrible witnesses and your own quotes offer the explanation.

Oh yeah? Nice Try: at least 135 of the at least 156 witnesses, were first-responders, so go tell it to them.

Here's another reliable eye-witness: "I thought it was exploding, actually. Everyone I think at that point still thought these things were blown up" (, fire marshall).

https://www.europhysicsnews.org/articles/epn/pdf/2016/04/epn2016474p21.pdf provided by BOT.

In addition to what steel-workers on VN seem to know, look there at what Twin-Tower structural engineer John Skilling.

 

[LouderVol]

Oh yeah? Nice Try: at least 135 of the at least 156 witnesses, were first-responders, so go tell it to them.

Here's another reliable eye-witness: "I thought it was exploding, actually. Everyone I think at that point still thought these things were blown up" (, fire marshall).

https://www.europhysicsnews.org/articles/epn/pdf/2016/04/epn2016474p21.pdf provided by BOT.

In addition to what steel-workers on VN seem to know, look there at what Twin-Tower structural engineer John Skilling.

you mean the structural engineer who said the only thing that could take down his tower is a controlled demolition? Yeah not buying that for ****.

 

[LouderVol]

OT but orangedog ran into a case of your masters of disaster. Just had my licensed electrical engineer tell me he meant to put a receptacle in the shower. Its hard to be polite to that level of stupid.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

OT but orangedog ran into a case of your masters of disaster. Just had my licensed electrical engineer tell me he meant to put a receptacle in the shower. Its hard to be polite to that level of stupid.

Is he an idiot, or was he just hoping to kill you?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Not kill you... suicide you.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

Not kill you... suicide you.

Just stop.

 

[LouderVol]

Is he an idiot, or was he just hoping to kill you?

I am going with idiot. I hate that we are paying for this level of drawing.

we did make a joke that it would be a great place to run my toaster.