9/11 Conspiracy Thread

#1,776
#1,776
jamesd1628 said:
Just dropping these links in here regarding WTC7:

WTC7

http://ine.uaf.edu/media/92216/wtc7-structural-reevaluation_progress-report_2017-9-7.pdf

Brief quote: "At the macro-level, progressive collapse, i.e., the structural system’s response to local failures, is being studied using SAP2000 with wire elements, as well as with ABAQUS, and it is near completion. The findings thus far are that fire did not bring down this building. Building failure simulations show that, to match observation, the entire inner core of this building failed nearly simultaneously."

Study conducted by engineers, but funded by "truthers", so I'm sure it will be criticized for all of the usual reasons.

On a more general note, it's difficult not to notice in this thread, and at other places where the topic is discussed, that people frequently rely on models, simulations, experts, superior experts, consensus among experts, etc. That goes for sources on both sides of the aisle, including the ones I've posted above. Over the years, I've developed a serious distrust of anyone who relies too heavily on such things. Any time a computer model or expert is trotted out in support of something, I immediately start with the premise that I'm being misled (at best) or outright lied to. Chaos theory suggests that, to successfully model anything that happens in reality would require an exact replica of the entire universe. An even basic understanding of that concept should put to rest any reliance on computer modeling to prove anything. And where to even begin with "experts" and any so-called consensus among such experts? It's laughable.
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NIST assumed floor load of 88 psf? Seems very light. Live load alone by ASCE 7-10 would be 80 psf for corridors (not including any dead load or self weight). Granted, the codes used during design were 70's or 80's codes but I would expect them to be reasonably close to current code.
 
#1,777
#1,777
The Reported Phone Calls from Barbara Olson

In any case, in spite of the foundational role of the Olson story, there were three serious problems with its credibility:

1. One problem is that, although Ted Olson went back and forth on whether his wife had used an onboard phone or a cell phone, she evidently could not have used either:

With regard to the possibility that Barbara Olson had used a cell phone, the FBI ruled this out in 2004, saying: “All of the calls from Flight 77 were made via the onboard airphone system.” [8]

There is also evidence that Barbara Olson could not have made the calls attributed to her in The 9/11 Commission Report: This is the evidence, cited in the Burnett section of Point PC-4: “Cell Phone Calls from the Planes: The Second Official Account”, that the cell phone technology available in 2001 would not have allowed cell phone calls from this airliner. [9]

Further evidence that Barbara Olson could not have used an onboard phone to call from AA 77 is provided by a page in the Boeing 757 Aircraft Maintenance Manual (757 AMM), dated January 28, 2001. The first sentence of this page states: “The passenger telephone system was deactivated by ECO FO878.” (ECO F1463 and F1532 were later orders to remove the phones.) This page indicates, in other words, that by January 28, 2001, the passenger phone system for the AA 757 fleet had been deactivated. [10]

The impossibility of Olson’s having used an onboard phone is further supported by a pilot and a flight attendant:

After being a fighter pilot, and having attended the US Navy Fighter Weapons School, Captain Ralph Kolstad served as an airline pilot for 27 years, during 13 of which he flew Boeing 757s and 767s for American Airlines. He wrote: “[T]he ‘air phones,’ as they were called, were … deactivated in early or mid 2001. They had been deactivated for quite some time prior to Sep 2001.” [11]

Flight attendant Ginger Gainer, after reporting that the Boeing 757s prepared for international flights had stickers on the seatback phones “indicating that they were inoperative,” added: “I asked several current and former Flight Attendants for American … who flew domestic … and they all said that they recalled the phones as having been disabled at the time, or gone.” [12]

There is one more reason to be skeptical about the claim that Barbara and Ted Olson talked that morning by telephone: Neither the telephone company records, nor the Department of Justice phone call records, nor Barbara Olson’s cell phone call records have ever been made public, in spite of the fact that there has been much discussion of the authenticity of the reported phone calls from her. [13]

2. A second more serious problem is that the Olson story was contradicted in the FBI’s 2006 report to the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui. In its report about phone calls from AA 77, the FBI stated that there was one call from Barbara Olson (not two), and that this call was “unconnected,” so that it lasted “0 seconds.” [14] This report thereby contradicted Ted Olson’s report that his wife had made two calls to him, one that lasted “about one minute” and another that lasted “two or three or four minutes.” [15]

3. A third problem is that Barbara Olson’s story as told by her husband is simply implausible. According to this story, 60 passengers – including pilot Charles “Chic” Burlingame, a former Navy pilot who was a weightlifter and a boxer [16] – were held off in the back of the plane by three or four hijackers (one or two would have been in the pilot’s cabin). And yet these alleged hijackers were, as a 9/11 Commission staff document mentioned, “not physically imposing, as the majority of them were between 5’5″ and 5’7″ in height and slender in build.” [17] If these small men were armed only with knives and box cutters, the pilots and the male passengers could have easily overpowered them.
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#1,780
#1,780
Rasputin_Vol said:
That would be correct. No arguments from me about that fact you just stated.
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I owe you and everyone else that questioned the "official" 9/11 story an apology.

Definitely an inside job.

The Federal Reserve must be abolished to return America to the people.

Maybe we'll actually see that under DJT. 4,10,20
 
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#1,781
#1,781
ajvol01 said:
I owe you and everyone else that questioned the "official" 9/11 story an apology.

Definitely an inside job.

The Federal Reserve must be abolished to return America to the people.

Maybe we'll actually see that under DJT. 4,10,20
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No apology necessary. I was just like you up until about 7 years ago. So I did my fair share of ridiculing of 911 truthers before then.
 
#1,788
#1,788
Rasputin_Vol said:
We have people here in the US worried about a low level KGB translator in Putin when the US had a former CIA Director as president.
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And unknown to most Americans GHWB just happened to be in Dallas in the vicinity of the parade route on the day JFK was shot.

Also unknown to most Americans is GHWB's involvement in the Bay of Pigs. Zapata oil, 2 ships named Barbara J and Houston
 
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#1,789
#1,789
Rasputin_Vol said:
We have people here in the US worried about a low level KGB translator in Putin when the US had a former CIA Director as president.
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The insane infatuation some have with Russia is just mindboggling. Its like Russia is the only threat to us. Nobody inside of our glorious government could ever be a threat.

Daddy Bush may be one of the most corrupt to ever occupy the office. The skeletons in his closet would probably make the devil himself wet his pants.
 
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#1,790
#1,790
BigOrangeTrain said:
The insane infatuation some have with Russia is just mindboggling. Its like Russia is the only threat to us. Nobody inside of our glorious government could ever be a threat.

Daddy Bush may be one of the most corrupt to ever occupy the office. The skeletons in his closet would probably make the devil himself wet his pants.
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His kids are effed too.

W, Jeb and Marvin have all kept up the family business
 
#1,792
#1,792
ajvol01 said:
And unknown to most Americans GHWB just happened to be in Dallas in the vicinity of the parade route on the day JFK was shot.

Also unknown to most Americans is GHWB's involvement in the Bay of Pigs. Zapata oil, 2 ships named Barbara J and Houston
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Zapata Oil (allegedly) had an office in the Dal-Tex Building which Bush allowed Charles Nicoletti to use as a sniper's nest on November 22, 1963.

I say "allegedly" because I haven't been able to find but one person that has said that. Same goes for the alleged ships named Barbara and Houston.
 
#1,793
#1,793
Rasputin_Vol said:
Zapata Oil (allegedly) had an office in the Dal-Tex Building which Bush allowed Charles Nicoletti to use as a sniper's nest on November 22, 1963.

I say "allegedly" because I haven't been able to find but one person that has said that. Same goes for the alleged ships named Barbara and Houston.
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Here you go.

CIA liaison officer Col. L. (Leroy) Fletcher Prouty

Bush killed JFK. The secret message of peace.

CIA liaison officer Col. L. (Leroy) Fletcher Prouty alleges[15] that Zapata Off-Shore provided or was used as cover for two of the ships used in the Bay of Pigs invasion: the Barbara J and Houston. Prouty claims he delivered two ships to an inactive Naval Base near Elizabeth City, North Carolina, for a CIA contact and he suspected very strongly that George Bush must have been involved:
They asked me to see if we could find – purchase – a couple of transport ships. We got some people that were in that business, and they went along the coast and they found two old ships that we purchased and sent down to Elizabeth City and began to load with an awful lot of trucks that the Army was sending down there. We deck-loaded the trucks, and got all of their supplies on board. Everything that they needed was on two ships. It was rather interesting to note, looking back these days, that one of the ships was called the Houston, and the other ship was called the Barbara J. Colonel Hawkins had renamed the program as we selected a name for the Bay of Pigs operation. The code name was "Zapata." I was thinking a few months ago of what a coincidence that is. When Mr. Bush graduated from Yale, back there in the days when I was a professor at Yale, he formed an oil company, called "Zapata", with a man, Lieddke, who later on became president of Pennzoil. But the company that Lieddke and Mr. Bush formed was the Zapata Oil Company. Mr. Bush's wife's name is Barbara J. And Mr. Bush claims as his hometown Houston, Texas. Now the triple coincidence there is strange; but I think it's interesting. I know nothing about its meaning. But these invasion ships were the Barbara J and the Houston, and the program was "Zapata." George Bush must have been somewhere around.[16]
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#1,798
#1,798
joevol33 said:
That's gonna mess up all the conspiracy theories
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Doesn't change the fact that the majority of attackers were Saudis.

This is a convenient time to dribble this alleged theory out here, since we are now heating up tensions with Iran. What better way to draw in more support for any future military actions (whether by the USA or Israelis) than to create a 911 narrative that includes Iran?

Odd that Israel and Saudi Arabia are not officially recognized as being involved, yet Afghanistan, Iraq and now Iran were supposedly neck deep in the plot.

I'm not buying this Iran story.
 
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#1,800
#1,800
Rasputin_Vol said:
Doesn't change the fact that the majority of attackers were Saudis.

This is a convenient time to dribble this alleged theory out here, since we are now heating up tensions with Iran. What better way to draw in more support for any future military actions (whether by the USA or Israelis) than to create a 911 narrative that includes Iran?

Odd that Israel and Saudi Arabia are not officially recognized as being involved, yet Afghanistan, Iraq and now Iran were supposedly neck deep in the plot.

I'm not buying this Iran story.
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I’m not either. After 9/11, Bin Laden released a tape stating his long term goal and reasons for attacking the US. Our agencies twisted much of what he said and entirely mistranslated some parts. A family friend of mine who is Egyptian translated some of the things for us and was like “this is what he actually said here and here.”

I think Iran’s government is full of evil people, but they are completely opposed to Al Qaeda, especially some Al Qaeda assaisnated one of their leaders.
 
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