A 10-year Excuse Treadmill

#102
#102
Carl Pickens said:
Wrong..... Brian Kelly wanted the job
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But lets just play devils advocate here and say what if Tennessee had hired Kelly instead of kitten. Well Kelly would have eventually done what kitten did and that would have been leaving us for his "dream job" in Notre dame
 
#103
#103
lilesrt said:
I am pretty sure Ole Miss has made a bowl appearance in all 3 of Hughes Freeze's seasons in Oxford. His first year was with very little talent. Vanderbilt, as much as I dislike them, proved that winning with minimal talent is possible, and yet fans in Knoxville refuse to acknowledge James Franklin's success there. A&M's rebuilding job was coming off of a very mediocre season, and Sumlin put up major statistics in his first season. Kentucky, well they are making improvements we'll see where they go. Regardless, Tennessee has more money, tradition, and resources than all of these schools and yet "the rebuilding process" remains ongoing in the name of Kiffin/Dooley. At what point do those two chumps stop being an acceptable excuse for losing football games? All teams play freshmen. This isn't unique to just Tennessee. And one other thing, the QB issue next year is a huge issue. I wouldn't sweep it under the rug.
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I agree with a lot of your points, but not all teams replace both lines and start 6 freshmen on O and 5 on D.

Freeze has done a good job. But he was already familiar with Ole Miss having been a coach there 05-07 and was the interim HC before Orgeron was hired.

But look at his record at Ole Miss - one signature win over LSU. Hasn't won many that he wasn't supposed to.

Franklin's run was amassed, almost entirely, against teams with loosing records. That's just a fact. He got out while the getting was good. What he does at Penn State will confirm or deny his coaching ability.

To answer your key question, I think it's next year when the Kifffin/Dooley factor is no longer an issue. I was hoping for 7-6 this season and a bowl. I still think we can make it with some luck - maybe even +1. I'm okay with 6-6 and a bowl with this team.

As for QBs, most thought Worley was a fail before the season even began. I wouldn't trade him for any college QB right now. He's showing the young kids what it means to play Tennessee Tough. I think the coaches can build a serviceable QB.
 
#104
#104
I see OP and others saying how the program and team suck and CBJ is a failure. But I don't see any suggestions on how to fix it. Do you want to fire Butch, is that your plan?
 
#106
#106
armchair said:
I give props to nobody until we start winning freakin' SEC football games, which might be never. I'm tired of being told that we should "chill out," or that Butch has got us on the right track, or that we are "close," or that we should be "patient" because the OL or the QB or the WRs or the RB or the laundry boys "need more experience;" I'm tired of hearing the "if onlys"---if only Worley didn't get hurt, or if only we didn't fumble or if only the officials didn't hate us. We've been on an excuse treadmill for 10 years. There are ALWAYS issues--every year: we will always be playing inexperienced players, there will always be injuries and bad breaks, etc. EVERY team deals with the same things. You either win or you don't. And we don't. Until we freaking' start winning, nothing encourages me. Worley will be gone next year--and we'll be lining up with more excuses. I like Jones--but until he wins games he's done nothing.
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Simple steps to be happy:
1 Look at the top 5 teams.
2 Find the 1 with the easiest path to the NCG.
3 Pull for them (if team underacheives go to step 4 uf not skip to step 5)
4 Find another team in thw top 5.
5 At the end of the season celebrate success.
6 Go to step 1 and repeat process.
 
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#107
#107
armchair said:
I give props to nobody until we start winning freakin' SEC football games, which might be never. I'm tired of being told that we should "chill out," or that Butch has got us on the right track, or that we are "close," or that we should be "patient" because the OL or the QB or the WRs or the RB or the laundry boys "need more experience;" I'm tired of hearing the "if onlys"---if only Worley didn't get hurt, or if only we didn't fumble or if only the officials didn't hate us. We've been on an excuse treadmill for 10 years. There are ALWAYS issues--every year: we will always be playing inexperienced players, there will always be injuries and bad breaks, etc. EVERY team deals with the same things. You either win or you don't. And we don't. Until we freaking' start winning, nothing encourages me. Worley will be gone next year--and we'll be lining up with more excuses. I like Jones--but until he wins games he's done nothing.
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excuse and moral U that is all we are.
 
#109
#109
armchair said:
I give props to nobody until we start winning freakin' SEC football games, which might be never. I'm tired of being told that we should "chill out," or that Butch has got us on the right track, or that we are "close," or that we should be "patient" because the OL or the QB or the WRs or the RB or the laundry boys "need more experience;" I'm tired of hearing the "if onlys"---if only Worley didn't get hurt, or if only we didn't fumble or if only the officials didn't hate us. We've been on an excuse treadmill for 10 years. There are ALWAYS issues--every year: we will always be playing inexperienced players, there will always be injuries and bad breaks, etc. EVERY team deals with the same things. You either win or you don't. And we don't. Until we freaking' start winning, nothing encourages me. Worley will be gone next year--and we'll be lining up with more excuses. I like Jones--but until he wins games he's done nothing.
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armchair / bandwagon it's all the same. CBJ waits with baited breath for your approval as do all.
 
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#111
#111
armchair said:
I give props to nobody until we start winning freakin' SEC football games, which might be never. I'm tired of being told that we should "chill out," or that Butch has got us on the right track, or that we are "close," or that we should be "patient" because the OL or the QB or the WRs or the RB or the laundry boys "need more experience;" I'm tired of hearing the "if onlys"---if only Worley didn't get hurt, or if only we didn't fumble or if only the officials didn't hate us. We've been on an excuse treadmill for 10 years. There are ALWAYS issues--every year: we will always be playing inexperienced players, there will always be injuries and bad breaks, etc. EVERY team deals with the same things. You either win or you don't. And we don't. Until we freaking' start winning, nothing encourages me. Worley will be gone next year--and we'll be lining up with more excuses. I like Jones--but until he wins games he's done nothing.
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Did you get beat up a lot in school?
 
#112
#112
lilesrt said:
I have said this for a while now. Have you ever noticed that Tenn is the only program where a rebuilding job takes 4-5 years or more? Kevin Sumlin, Hughes Freeze, James Franklin, and Mark Stoops are all proving otherwise. Next year, we have Peterman or Dobbs. It will be just as bad. Tennessee needs to win now.
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I noticed that it takes 4-5 years, I also noticed that we hired a guy named Dooley that in his 3 years , managed to set the program back 10 years .

This is Butches 2nd year . I predict by his 3 year you will put his name right up there with the other guys you mentioned.

Who is to say that Dobbs or Peterman will be bad next season ? Worley was supposed to be terrible again this year. So was our defense . So was our kicker . Yet I have seen nothing but wholesale improvement .
 
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#113
#113
armchair said:
I give props to nobody until we start winning freakin' SEC football games, which might be never. I'm tired of being told that we should "chill out," or that Butch has got us on the right track, or that we are "close," or that we should be "patient" because the OL or the QB or the WRs or the RB or the laundry boys "need more experience;" I'm tired of hearing the "if onlys"---if only Worley didn't get hurt, or if only we didn't fumble or if only the officials didn't hate us. We've been on an excuse treadmill for 10 years. There are ALWAYS issues--every year: we will always be playing inexperienced players, there will always be injuries and bad breaks, etc. EVERY team deals with the same things. You either win or you don't. And we don't. Until we freaking' start winning, nothing encourages me. Worley will be gone next year--and we'll be lining up with more excuses. I like Jones--but until he wins games he's done nothing.
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umm did u see us beat usc last year
 
#114
#114
Bluntly assessing it, you're right. But you can't criticize everyone for wanting to analyze the details and speculate about the upcoming games. Sure it's useless to pick apart the stats and try to put our own spin on things such as they are, but that's just football fandom and what forums are for.

We get it. We haven't proven any change until the record reflects a W in the win column. I don't particularly like the annual, "We are going to beat Florida this week" speculators. It wouldn't sound so silly if we had actually beaten them lately. But I can't control what others type and I let it go as freaky fandom.

Everybody is tired of losing and just wants to win big games again against ranked opponents. Until we do, we're whistling Dixie and still haven't arrived.
 
#116
#116
lilesrt said:
Reality is what it is. Go look at Tennessee's record. Our irrelevance is glaring. Is recruiting improving? Yes. Has it translated onto the field in terms of W's? No.
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Reality is we've hit rock bottom because of two horrible coaching hires. It's not an overnight fix. Butch has this program heading in the right direction. Anybody who can't see the on field improvement isn't paying attention.
 
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#117
#117
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
Reality is we've hit rock bottom because of two horrible coaching hires. It's not an overnight fix. Butch has this program heading in the right direction. Anybody who can't see the on field improvement isn't paying attention.
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The only thing I've seen in games is attitude of fun rather than dread and playing to the end even when everyone in the stadium knows we're beat. I got no real problem with Butch Jones coaching although I don't think he's any sort of football mastermind and we'll never out recruit teams like UGA, UF and Bama so I don't see him taking us where we were in the 90s without a staff overhaul at some point.
 
#118
#118
VolunteerHillbilly said:
The only thing I've seen in games is attitude of fun rather than dread and playing to the end even when everyone in the stadium knows we're beat. I got no real problem with Butch Jones coaching although I don't think he's any sort of football mastermind and we'll never out recruit teams like UGA, UF and Bama so I don't see him taking us where we were in the 90s without a staff overhaul at some point.
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Florida is currently 43d in recruiting soooo? :whistling:
 
#119
#119
majic73 said:
I noticed that it takes 4-5 years, I also noticed that we hired a guy named Dooley that in his 3 years , managed to set the program back 10 years .

This is Butches 2nd year . I predict by his 3 year you will put his name right up there with the other guys you mentioned.

Who is to say that Dobbs or Peterman will be bad next season ? Worley was supposed to be terrible again this year. So was our defense . So was our kicker . Yet I have seen nothing but wholesale improvement .
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I sure hope you are correct in regard to the QB situation next year. The best situation is that Worley stays healthy all season, and takes us to a bowl game. This will allow Dobbs to RS in order to make a push for the starting role next season. Expecting a True Freshman to come in and be effective is a bit of a stretch. Nathan Peterman is not the answer. I am confident in saying that.
 
#120
#120
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
Reality is we've hit rock bottom because of two horrible coaching hires. It's not an overnight fix. Butch has this program heading in the right direction. Anybody who can't see the on field improvement isn't paying attention.
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I see the improvement. It just hasn't translated into W's yet.
 
#122
#122
I understand the frustration. At some time we do have to start exceeding expectations or we will never get where we all want to go(competing for & winning championships). Next week we should beat the Gators. If we do, then I will continue to be enthusiastic about Butch's ability to turn the program around. If we lose, the excuses will start to wear on me as well, and I will start to question whether Butch can get it done on the field. Don't get me wrong Butch's recruiting alone will ensure that we begin winning 8 or 9 games in the next couple of years. But can Butch compete for and win SEC and/or national championshis.

I remember a Georgia coach in the late 90s who recruited very well but could never get hus team over the hump to compete for championships. his team was so laden with talent in the 1998 season that most analysts predicted his team to beat the eventual national champs. But as we all know, he was not able to translate the recruiting success into success on the field. Will Butch Jones be able to achieve the type of success that elite coaches like Phillip Fulmer, Steve Spurrier, Nick Saban, and others have achieved (ie playing at an elite level and competing for and winning championships) or will he be like Jim Donnan(ie achieving only moderate success). Only time will tell, but I think next week will be a huge clue as to which way our program is headed. I personally believe we win next week. Go Vols!
 
#123
#123
VolunteerHillbilly said:
The only thing I've seen in games is attitude of fun rather than dread and playing to the end even when everyone in the stadium knows we're beat. I got no real problem with Butch Jones coaching although I don't think he's any sort of football mastermind and we'll never out recruit teams like UGA, UF and Bama so I don't see him taking us where we were in the 90s without a staff overhaul at some point.
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Going to be honest, we were not beat last night until Gurley got the 4th down conversion
 
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#124
#124
lilesrt said:
Reality is what it is. Go look at Tennessee's record. Our irrelevance is glaring. Is recruiting improving? Yes. Has it translated onto the field in terms of W's? No.
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Kahlil McKenzie and Shy Tuttle can't help us until next year.
 
#125
#125
bummer, I had always heard our laundry boys were doing a bang up job. Now this guy disputes it.
 
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