A Reluctant Criticism of Barnes

#126
#126
1985Vols said:
Wrong, I recall Pearl made the tourney every single year he coached here and he also inherited a dumpster fire from Buzz. Additionally, he typically got past the first round of the tourney and made an Elite 8. Barnes has lost to a lower seeded team in all 3 years he has taken us to the tournament. Think about that
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If you think Pearl inherited a dumpster fire...there’s no help for you. NBA PG and one of the best shooters in conference history.
 
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#127
#127
1985Vols said:
Wrong, I recall Pearl made the tourney every single year he coached here and he also inherited a dumpster fire from Buzz. Additionally, he typically got past the first round of the tourney and made an Elite 8. Barnes has lost to a lower seeded team in all 3 years he has taken us to the tournament. Think about that
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As usual, you have no idea as to what you're talking about.
 
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#131
#131
VolFreakJosh said:
Acting like Pearl took over a dumpster fire is beyond stupid.

It never fails around here.
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Barnes didn't take over one here, either, although it wasn't it super great shape. It was about a .500 program, at that point. Kevin O'Neill? Now, THAT dude took over a dumpster fire.
 
#133
#133
VolGee4 said:
20 win seasons were never a barometer though...until now. Quite ironic.
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20 wins has always been a traditional marker of a decent season. It's not a be all, end all, either, but you aren't really focusing on the greater argument I'm putting forth here and I've stated it on a number of occasions.
 
#136
#136
Unimane said:
20 wins has always been a traditional marker of a decent season. It's not a be all, end all, either, but you aren't really focusing on the greater argument I'm putting forth here and I've stated it on a number of occasions.
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I am, and you and others are using Martin to argue your point, which is so ironic, considering this very board when Martin was coach. Minds are made up, and people are just trying to facts to defend it.
 
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#137
#137
Unimane said:
20 wins has always been a traditional marker of a decent season. It's not a be all, end all, either, but you aren't really focusing on the greater argument I'm putting forth here and I've stated it on a number of occasions.
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Not really...Andy Kennedy went 9/12 on 20+ win seasons yet only made 2 NCAAT appearances and was fired. If reaching 20 wins is what mattered then we wouldn’t be scheduling tough OOC matchups and would just stack wins, but we don’t, I’d rather make NCAAT at 19 wins that go to the NIT at 23 wins.
 
#138
#138
allvol123 said:
Is the salary beyond the results?
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His results going forward will dictate whether he likely gets another raise or not, but there’s no question about his current salary...2 different AD’s determined he was worth is, 3 if you believe VQ, and so that was that.
 
#139
#139
bleedingTNorange said:
So are tourney appearances what matter or 20 win seasons? Sorry trying to keep up with your goal posts that keep moving lol
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You’re missing the point. It doesn’t have anything to do with goalposts. It’s being disingenuous to make the 20 win statement that I did because Barnes had less games this year because of COVID, same as with your statement about three straight NCAA tournaments. It’s ignoring context to try and make your point.
 
#140
#140
Unimane said:
Barnes didn't take over one here, either, although it wasn't it super great shape. It was about a .500 program, at that point. Kevin O'Neill? Now, THAT dude took over a dumpster fire.
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The one and only reason that team Barnes inherited was .500 was because Josh Richardson was a stud, and he was a senior in Tyndall's one and only season. With him gone, the roster Barnes inherited was a nightmare. Kevin Punter and Armani Moore were the two best players, and with all due respect to those guys, you're in trouble if they are your two best players. Especially when you add in that they didn't have a competent player taller than 6'5.
 
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#141
#141
zjcvols said:
You’re missing the point. It doesn’t have anything to do with goalposts. It’s being disingenuous to make the 20 win statement that I did because Barnes had less games this year because of COVID, same as with your statement about three straight NCAA tournaments. It’s ignoring context to try and make your point.
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We were 1-2 wins in the SECT away from having a very real chance of making it in, go back and look at the thread...so to act as if we had to win the SECT is what’s disingenuous. Fact is if you look up active streaks we are at 3, it counts the same nationwide for all schools, next year it will be 4, sorry that upsets you so much but that’s what it is.
 
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#142
#142
bleedingTNorange said:
His results going forward will dictate whether he likely gets another raise or not, but there’s no question about his current salary...2 different AD’s determined he was worth is, 3 if you believe VQ, and so that was that.
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I'm not speaking to the future or your fascination with using the opinions of others as validation. His results dont match his compensation. That hurts your feelz, so what.
 
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#143
#143
allvol123 said:
I'm not speaking to the future or your fascination with using the opinions of others as validation. His results dont match his compensation. That hurts your feelz, so what.
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Is his salary really that important?
 
#144
#144
bleedingTNorange said:
We were 1-2 wins in the SECT away from having a very real chance of making it in, go back and look at the thread...so to act as if we had to win the SECT is what’s disingenuous. Fact is if you look up active streaks we are at 3, it counts the same nationwide for all schools, next year it will be 4, sorry that upsets you so much but that’s what it is.
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I did and we weren’t that close. We would had to have made it to the SECT Final to get in and even then it wasn’t a guarantee.

Either way, we’ve now had two straight disappointing seasons. This was not a good seasons especially where the expectations were to begin with the season. And like I told you when he was given the huge salary bump, there was going to be a heat on him from the fanbase if he disappoints. And he’s rightly getting some
 
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#146
#146
allvol123 said:
I'm not speaking to the future or your fascination with using the opinions of others as validation. His results dont match his compensation. That hurts your feelz, so what.
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Doesn’t hurt my feelings at all, I don’t give a $hit what he makes as it has nothing to do with expectations...again, nobody was cool with CCM finishing 13th in the league since that’s what he was paid, it’s an idiotic argument either way you try to make it.
 
#147
#147
bleedingTNorange said:
Not really...Andy Kennedy went 9/12 on 20+ win seasons yet only made 2 NCAAT appearances and was fired. If reaching 20 wins is what mattered then we wouldn’t be scheduling tough OOC matchups and would just stack wins, but we don’t, I’d rather make NCAAT at 19 wins that go to the NIT at 23 wins.
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Yes, 20 wins is an informal marker of a decent season and has been for quite some time. Arguing otherwise is silly. Arguing this makes one unfireable would also be equally silly. Programs don't often pay millions of dollars for coaches to have a bunch of merely decent seasons, which is why guys like Andy Kennedy can hang on a while, but, eventually, get fired. Aside from the fact a 23 win Tennessee team would likely not get bumped from the NCAAs, sure the NCAAs is better than the NIT. Losing badly in the first round is going to leave a negative marker for the season, as well. Would you consider the 2017-18 Virginia season a success?
 
#148
#148
zjcvols said:
I did and we weren’t that close. We would had to have made it to the SECT Final to get in and even then it wasn’t a guarantee.

Either way, we’ve now had two straight disappointing seasons. This was not a good seasons especially where the expectations were to begin with the season. And like I told you when he was given the huge salary bump, there was going to be a heat on him from the fanbase if he disappoints. And he’s rightly getting some
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Question....

Better off fielding a team like a few years ago that expectations are maybe sneaking into the dance, we exceed that and bounced early still?

Or fielding a team like this year where expectations are higher but results are pretty much the same?

Would you feel better about the first one, even though end result is the same? You’re on record as stating making the NCAAT 4/5 years is your expectation for this program, Barnes is doing that, should he just steer away from fielding preseason Top 15 teams?
 
#149
#149
Unimane said:
Yes, 20 wins is an informal marker of a decent season and has been for quite some time. Arguing otherwise is silly. Arguing this makes one unfireable would also be equally silly. Programs don't often pay millions of dollars for coaches to have a bunch of merely decent seasons, which is why guys like Andy Kennedy can hang on a while, but, eventually, get fired. Aside from the fact a 23 win Tennessee team would likely not get bumped from the NCAAs, sure the NCAAs is better than the NIT. Losing badly in the first round is going to leave a negative marker for the season, as well. Would you consider the 2017-18 Virginia season a success?
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This team underachieved, and deserves criticism, not saying otherwise...but bigger picture they made the dance yet again which is the barometer for a good season as a program at Tennessee. I expect to make the dance, and right now Barnes is doing that more often than not and is poised to have us there again next year.
 
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#150
#150
bleedingTNorange said:
Doesn’t hurt my feelings at all, I don’t give a $hit what he makes as it has nothing to do with expectations...again, nobody was cool with CCM finishing 13th in the league since that’s what he was paid, it’s an idiotic argument either way you try to make it.
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I dont think you understand the purpose of pay if you dont understand that higher pay demands higher expectations. I have different expectations for the guy that prepares my taxes versus if I take them to some dude at H&R block.
 
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