A Reluctant Criticism of Barnes

#176
#176
1985Vols said:
Lol, people like yourself saying Barnes inherited a dumpster fire is just as much of Hot take. Kevin Punter, Robert Hubbs, Admiral Schofield, Lamont’s Turner , Kyle Alexander among others that Barnes inherited . Pretty dang good squad talent wise
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Not to mention Detrick Mostella a five star Barnes couldn’t do anything with. It’s so frustrating that grant was wasted on Barnes- the places Pearl could have gone with that kind of player.
 
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#177
#177
clausen_translation said:
And Barnes inherited a five star in Mostella (who Barnes couldn’t develop pattern sensing activated ) and admiral.


And I guess I’m confused Pearl and Barnes’s first two years can’t really be compared Pearl was so so so much better. so even if Pearl inherited a tiny bit more talent than Barnes his achievements were literally incomparably superior to Barnes.

It’s disgusting how Barnes’s amen corner craps all over Tyndall who did a pretty good job all things considered. Compare that to Pearl fans- which is to say people who were fans of Tennessee being a top 20 program- who aren’t constantly running Buzz down. There is no need to run Buzz down Pearl came in and worked miracles. Whereas Barnes had a worst winning percentage his first two years than Tyndall had at UT. So it is not a surprise that Barnes’s boys crap on Tyndall and gas up Buzz.
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Mostella?

ROFL, you can’t be serious.
 
#181
#181
JACK8254 said:
We are very lucky to have Coach Barnes , no one reasonablefan would argue that. That said, this year he did a poor job of extracting a gold mine of talent on this team. Was it Covid, lack of team chemistry , too young, an unhealthy Fulky, no true pt guard, Jupiter out of alignment, lack of a team therapist, - pick your favorite. The cold fact is that there was a lot of talent on this team ( sweet 16 at least) and very little of it was utilized and that is on the coach. This team had a hard year and individually , they are a likable bunch. I cant remember a team that was this up and down and that again goes to coaching. This year should have been better.
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Pons is talented but very inconsistent on offense, Vescovi takes way too many shots as does Bailey, Fulkerson is a liability on defense, James is wildly inconsistent, and the freshman played like freshman. I am not sure what vast amounts of talent you are referring to?
 
#182
#182
VolArmy74 said:
The revisionist history about what Pearl inherited here is hilarious. He vastly improved everyone and everything on that team. It's the best coaching job in UT basketball history. Everyone on the roster except CJ and Lofton was considered a bust at that point. Especially Bradshaw and Wingate. That team went 6-12 in the SEC and lost its leading scorer and leading post/rebounder in McFagdon and Crump. We had Dane Bradshaw making the shift from incompetent back up PG to 6'3 power forward and it worked. JuJuan Smith was a freshman walk-on who averaged 1.9 ppg coming into Pearl's 1st season. Pearl developed players very few major programs wanted. He didn't luck into a gold mine. Good grief.
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He developed them, but he had talent to work with. An NBA PG? A PG that had a lengthy career, too. That’s huge when inheriting a program. While people throw around “forgettable,” Wingate and Patterson were 4 stars out of high school. Wings te was top 60 on rivals, and Patterson initially chose UCLA over Kentucky and Michigan. Bradshaw was not a bust because he was a 3 star that wasn’t highly recruited, but Pearl did get a lot out of him.

So, no, it’s not revisionist history. It’s folks opining that Barnes isn’t good and trying to find the means to justify it.
 
#183
#183
bleedingTNorange said:
Question....

Better off fielding a team like a few years ago that expectations are maybe sneaking into the dance, we exceed that and bounced early still?

Or fielding a team like this year where expectations are higher but results are pretty much the same?

Would you feel better about the first one, even though end result is the same? You’re on record as stating making the NCAAT 4/5 years is your expectation for this program, Barnes is doing that, should he just steer away from fielding preseason Top 15 teams?
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So you're asking if overachieving or underachieving is better? Pretty easy answer there.
 
#184
#184
Cherokee Orange said:
Why is TN lucky to have coach Barnes? He is getting paid a King’s Ransom and delivers below expected results most of the time. Bottom line is that TN isn’t hanging Banners from the rafters and I don’t see this happening under Barnes. He is to old, tired and stubborn to adjust his offense and that is not going to change. Get prepared for under achieving mediocrity if TN continues to be satisfied with the results Barnes is putting on the court.
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This right here is a prime example of the idiocracy of some people....y'all act like this program is a blue blood of college basketball. Never has been. Do y'all remember the Oneil , Buzz, and Houston days? I mean Jesus Christ ..some of y'all act like we just been pumping out Elite 8's and Final 4's for the past 30 years. Y'all a special type of dumb.
 
#185
#185
clausen_translation said:
And Barnes inherited a five star in Mostella (who Barnes couldn’t develop pattern sensing activated ) and admiral.


And I guess I’m confused Pearl and Barnes’s first two years can’t really be compared Pearl was so so so much better. so even if Pearl inherited a tiny bit more talent than Barnes his achievements were literally incomparably superior to Barnes.

It’s disgusting how Barnes’s amen corner craps all over Tyndall who did a pretty good job all things considered. Compare that to Pearl fans- which is to say people who were fans of Tennessee being a top 20 program- who aren’t constantly running Buzz down. There is no need to run Buzz down Pearl came in and worked miracles. Whereas Barnes had a worst winning percentage his first two years than Tyndall had at UT. So it is not a surprise that Barnes’s boys crap on Tyndall and gas up Buzz.
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Mostella wasn’t a five star and has serious discipline issues. Barnes inherited Robert Hubbs, put him on the block, and utilized him more than Martin and Tyndall. Then we were running Armani Moore and Derek Reese out there. Martin’s last year of recruiting was horrid unless you thought he was going to get Jaylin Brown to UT. Tyndall got Admiral, who was a freshman, and Romello White went elsewhere.

I actually said Tyndall was a good onfloor coach, but he was shady. He also had a current pro in the NBA as a senior.
 
#186
#186
VolFreakJosh said:
I don’t gaf what he was rated in high school.

The fact you actually brought him up in the same sentence as Lofton, Watson, and Smith is astonishing.

This tops it all right here.
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Lol smith was a walk-on. You clearly weren’t following basketball then. I was like eight and I’m more familiar with the details than you are. It’s so funny for Barnes fans the fact Pearl is a world class player developer gets held against him some how. The fact Barnes is terrible at player development then becomes another excuse for Barnes.
 
#187
#187
VolGee4 said:
Mostella wasn’t a five star and has serious discipline issues. Barnes inherited Robert Hubbs, put him on the block, and utilized him more than Martin. Then we were running Armani Moore and Derek Reese out there. Martin’s last year of recruiting was horrid unless you thought he was going to get Jaylin Brown to UT. Tyndall got Admiral, who was a freshman, and Romello White went elsewhere.

I actually said Tyndall was a good onfloor coach, but he was shady. He also had a current pro in the NBA as a senior.
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Scout had Mostella as a five star. They really liked his shooting- other services had him as more of a slasher. Didn’t matter either way once Barnes showed up.
 
#188
#188
clausen_translation said:
Lol smith was a walk-on. You clearly weren’t following basketball then. I was like eight and I’m more familiar with the details than you are. It’s so funny for Barnes fans the fact Pearl is a world class player developer gets held against him some how. The fact Barnes is terrible at player development then becomes another excuse for Barnes.
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Barnes is terrible at development? Admiral, Bone, William's, Alexander, Pons, and Fulk say hello.
 
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#189
#189
bleedingTNorange said:
Question....

Better off fielding a team like a few years ago that expectations are maybe sneaking into the dance, we exceed that and bounced early still?

Or fielding a team like this year where expectations are higher but results are pretty much the same?

Would you feel better about the first one, even though end result is the same? You’re on record as stating making the NCAAT 4/5 years is your expectation for this program, Barnes is doing that, should he just steer away from fielding preseason Top 15 teams?
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Why the hell does it have to be that at all? Why can’t Rick just have good teams and actually do something in the postseason with them?
 
#190
#190
clausen_translation said:
Lol smith was a walk-on. You clearly weren’t following basketball then. I was like eight and I’m more familiar with the details than you are. It’s so funny for Barnes fans the fact Pearl is a world class player developer gets held against him some how. The fact Barnes is terrible at player development then becomes another excuse for Barnes.
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It’s not held against him. It’s literally who he inherited. They aren’t mutually exclusive. Many coaches would love to inherit a program with an NBA PG (who had deveoplef some) and an all time conference shooter. Lofton shot 46.5% from 3 his freshman year under Buzz. It’s not like Lofton was nothing before Pearl.

Barnes isn’t a terrible developer. In fact, it’s his strength.
 
#192
#192
clausen_translation said:
Scout had Mostella as a five star. They really liked his shooting- other services had him as more of a slasher. Didn’t matter either way once Barnes showed up.
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Mostella was dreadful as a freshman under Tyndall. He played the best basketball of his career under Barnes before he got kicked off the team. He wasn't very good against weak competition at Jacksonville State after he left here. Fact is that kid had a lot of off court issues that kept him from living up to his ranking.
 
#193
#193
VolFreakJosh said:
I’m pissed off just as much as the next guy. Am I satisfied? Hell no. I think yesterday’s loss was embarrassing, can’t make excuses for it.

However, do I think Barnes should be fired? Absolutely not. It would be a huge mistake to let him go at this time. I know everyone is in their feelings and want to point at the guy making 5 million a year but you can’t fire your way to success.

There’s plenty of coaches I’d love to have over Barnes even though the chances of them coming here are slim to none. Tennessee has never been a big name in basketball nor gotten the respect from the NCAA. We don’t have a history of winning Final Fours and hanging National Championship banners from the raptors. It sucks but that’s reality.

We all know White has had success as the AD. Can he really find a better replacement for Barnes? Maybe. However, he’s going to choose who he thinks is best and it may be somebody that you don’t like. Then who are you going to start blaming?
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I don't think we can steal the Raptors banner
 
#194
#194
allvol123 said:
I dont think you understand the purpose of pay if you dont understand that higher pay demands higher expectations. I have different expectations for the guy that prepares my taxes versus if I take them to some dude at H&R block.
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Not even close to the same...

Your buddy buys a new truck for $50k, months later you want one but supply is low and demand is high, you pay $65k for the same truck.,.you expecting more from your truck than his?
 
#195
#195
Unimane said:
I don't care about him being the 5th highest paid coach and demanding he have equivalent results, although I understand the contract bringing more heat on him to produce from the fans. What I do care is, if we are going to pay him a top 5 salary, are we getting the best option possible for the amount of money we are spending? If so, then great. If not, then that should be the only real discussion in terms of how much we are paying him.
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And that’s fair, I’m all ears...at $5m who you getting to Knoxville that has better results that last 4-5 years?
 
#198
#198
Unimane said:
That's a pretty easy barometer when it happens about half the time, based upon the last 45 years of Tennessee basketball, as it has in half of the seasons Barnes has coached. I think a good season is a little more subjective, depending on the season and factors surrounding it. If this was the result in Barnes' first season, then it would definitely have been a good season. This season, merely making the tournament was not a good result. It was not a good season, it was, at best, an ok one.
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17/40 years, 14/30 years, 10/20 years...Barnes is 3/5 on NCAAT appearances and I damn sure expect an appearance next year too.

As I’ve said previously, if this is a “down” year then I’m good with that.
 
#199
#199
VolFreakJosh said:
You’re acting like Pearl didn’t have players to work with when he got here which is completely false.

Boy, I’m sure any coach would have loved one of the best 3 point shooters to ever play college ball.

You’re one ignorant SOB.
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Dude referenced a player that was a walk on, and mentioned “competent” post players (who you argued “but they scored”), and the crown jewel of Pearl’s inheritance was a player that no one recruited aside from Buzz and some mid majors... that’s your argument for the talent he was left with... yeah ok... like I said, complete stupidity...
 
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