A Succinct Brief on the NCAA Woes.

[LAVol1]

How many of the 5k div I BB players do you think are getting NIL? Baseball? Field hockey? Even women’s BB?

How many total players are earning REAL MONEY across all sports? What % of all athletes in the 363 D1 schools?

COULD BE that the end game will be a NEW NIL division to keep the NCAA or a successor in play. Got to have some structure and funding for ALL the lessor sports oversight.

MOST baseball players get NOTHING--not even a scholarship (due to Title IX limiting baseball to 11.7 scholarships)!

 

[Snapper58]

MOST baseball players get NOTHING--not even a scholarship (due to Title IX)!

Our baseball team gets NIL. Most use it to pay their tuition.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

And UT is fighting it's ass off to make sure the kids get their piece. Where are the rest of the institutions ? NCAA wants to deny those same kids

UT is not fighting so that students can get part of that $50M they'll get via the SEC via ESPN. UT almost certainly wants no part of actual "revenue sharing" and "collective bargaining" and "employee status" for athletes.

 

[LAVol1]

Our baseball team gets NIL. Most use it to pay their tuition.

How many UT baseball players get enough NIL to cover tuition? Probably fewer than you think. MOST college baseball players get zero. My son, a former college pitcher, used to refer to baseball partial scholarships as "a cookie and a book".

 

[butchna]

This NIL thing is likely to end in a flat rate being paid to all players. Players get paid and eliminates bidding wars. Also removes incentive to change school just for the money.

Flat rate staves off the need to unionize. NIL adds to what you can generate and keep. Good business.

 

[ru4real-really?]

A flat rate for all won’t work. What will probably be the outcome is a minimum rate for all with an unlimited level for those who will create a bidding war! That would be good for all while being great for a few!

 

[OldVol]

ESPN did a nice job on this article, without getting into to much minutia, of summarizing the current lawsuits and state activities against unrestrained selective enforcement. Not a long read. Too many threads to pass this along without multiple entries.

NCAA changes: NLRB, lawsuits and mounting legal challenges

Making sense of the latest NLRB decision and antitrust cases that target amateurism in the NCAA.

www.espn.com

The bottom line is this.

Tennessee will win their case if the NCAA allows it to go to court. Their best option would be to withdraw accusations and drop it. They won’t. The reason is they know this has to happen. Once Tennessee wins their case, the NCAA will be PERMANENTLY enjoined from enforcing rules regarding NIL and recruiting. PERMANENTLY. The only way they could come out ahead is if Congress grants them an antitrust exemption. That will never happen. Why? Because the major programs wanting to pay kids covers the majority of states that would give them a majority in both the house and senate. The NCAA as we know it is dead. It was placed on life support with O’bannon vs The NCAA. Once our case is finished the NCAA can do nothing but supervise rules of play. They don’t worry about that because it doesn’t drain the teat like thousands of billable hours of investigating who gave a kid a ride to a BBQ.

Now with the Dartmouth ruling on collective bargaining we’re in for another roller coaster ride. Not every kid in the top 50 of football recruiting is going to give his bargaining power to a union that’s going to take a percentage of his earnings. That model will never work. It can’t work because every player will have to be paid a minimum. Which 5* QB is going to hand his earning power over like that so it can be divied up to the 2nd string long snapper?

The days of kids playing for ‘love of the game’ are over. With it goes a lot of the reasons many of us loved this sport so much.

 

[butchna]

A flat rate for all won’t work. What will probably be the outcome is a minimum rate for all with an unlimited level for those who will create a bidding war! That would be good for all while being great for a few!

Flat rate IS the “minimum”. No way to limit what individual brands can add. The sooner that’s realized by those raking in billions, the sooner good business rolls on.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

A flat rate for all won’t work. What will probably be the outcome is a minimum rate for all with an unlimited level for those who will create a bidding war! That would be good for all while being great for a few!

There's absolutely no way to pay players from the school and not have them follow the pro leagues with a players union to tap into the millions of TV revenue the schools get. It's the logical thing for them to do.

The reason pro salaries are ridiculous is there are a very limited set of people who can do what Steph Curry does or Lamar Jackson does and the leagues make millions showcasing that talent. The players unionized to get their piece of that money.

College players should and will do exactly that as long as schools make millions showcasing their unique talents. The huge athletic revenue schools are going to choke the non revenue schools and their own non revenue sports out of the market unless they separate the big money from the school.

 

[butchna]

The bottom line is this.

Tennessee will win their case if the NCAA allows it to go to court. Their best option would be to withdraw accusations and drop it. They won’t. The reason is they know this has to happen. Once Tennessee wins their case, the NCAA will be PERMANENTLY enjoined from enforcing rules regarding NIL and recruiting. PERMANENTLY. The only way they could come out ahead is if Congress grants them an antitrust exemption. That will never happen. Why? Because the major programs wanting to pay kids covers the majority of states that would give them a majority in both the house and senate. The NCAA as we know it is dead. It was placed on life support with O’bannon vs The NCAA. Once our case is finished the NCAA can do nothing but supervise rules of play. They don’t worry about that because it doesn’t drain the teat like thousands of billable hours of investigating who gave a kid a ride to a BBQ.

Now with the Dartmouth ruling on collective bargaining we’re in for another roller coaster ride. Not every kid in the top 50 of football recruiting is going to give his bargaining power to a union that’s going to take a percentage of his earnings. That model will never work. It can’t work because every player will have to be paid a minimum. Which 5* QB is going to hand his earning power over like that so it can be divied up to the 2nd string long snapper?

The days of kids playing for ‘love of the game’ are over. With it goes a lot of the reasons many of us loved this sport so much.

Can still find Joe College giving his all for State U in museums and FCS-below. Strangely that dynamic’s TV packaging is more limited and less viewed to the mass audience…but still available. Get ESPN+ and you can watch Holy Cross vs Lehigh anytime.

 

[GetYouSomeofThat]

The NCAA has always been flawed, but it has presided over the sport I love my entire life.

With the way things are going, I'm not sure I will enjoy it in the same way going into the future.

Serious question; why?

 

[butchna]

There's absolutely no way to pay players from the school and not have them follow the pro leagues with a players union to tap into the millions of TV revenue the schools get. It's the logical thing for them to do.

The reason pro salaries are ridiculous is there are a very limited set of people who can do what Steph Curry does or Lamar Jackson does and the leagues make millions showcasing that talent. The players unionized to get their piece of that money.

College players should and will do exactly that as long as schools make millions showcasing their unique talents. The huge athletic revenue schools are going to choke the non revenue schools and their own non revenue sports out of the market unless they separate the big money from the school.

Pro leagues are longer vested than 3-5 year windows and their work stoppages last mere months before their mansion payment comes due and they settle. No way kids fresh out of high school sign up for negotiated labor meetings and PAY union dues out of their own pockets for EVERYBODY else to benefit. Maybe individual teams can elect reps or the local NIL haggles for them. But a basic rate for everyone on the roster + whatever you can add for yourself skips the nonsense. Human nature, self-interest and short attention span is undefeated.

 

[GetYouSomeofThat]

Does anyone think football or basketball players at major schools are “amateur“? That notion has sailed. They are pros now. School or state pride is pretty much gone. It’s about the money, where your friends are, where can you get the most exposure, and who the coach is.
Free agency ended my fandom in MLB but MLB survived my departure. I am sure college sports will also survive. I don’t blame the plyers for getting all they can but my enjoyment is significantly diminished.

Were school amd state pride gone when we started recruiting nationwide?

Did the fact that Condredge Holloway come from Alabama lessens state pride? How about Ainge or my favorite qb Casey Clausen.

Maybe for those alums who are fans only for that reason and are also only fans of those sports teams. But for most fans that isnt the reason for their fandom and will likely not make a difference.

At least IMO

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Can still find Joe College giving his all for State U in museums and FCS-below. Strangely that dynamic’s TV packaging is more limited and less viewed to the mass audience…but still available. Get ESPN+ and you can watch Holy Cross vs Lehigh anytime.

You CAN but the quality of Holy Cross vs LeHigh doesn't draw enough eyeballs to make it anything but a niche market for ads. If ESPN can't sell it, it ends up lumped into their "second tier" ESPN+ subscription+ service.

There's little chance you'd see that game on over the air broadcast, ad only supported TV except MAYBE in a local market.

Jimmy's and Joe's are the ones being hurt by the big money schools and fans creating this massive market for SEC, B1G, etc games. Unless they separate from schools like Holy Cross, schools like UT will destroy athletics at smaller schools.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Pro leagues are longer vested than 3-5 year windows and their work stoppages last mere months before their mansion payment comes due and they settle. No way kids fresh out of high school sign up for negotiated labor meetings and PAY union dues out of their own pockets for EVERYBODY else to benefit. Maybe individual teams can elect reps or the local NIL haggles for them. But a basic rate for everyone on the roster + whatever you can add for yourself skips the nonsense. Human nature, self-interest and short attention span is undefeated.

Union dues will be, as in the pros, baked into the salary of athletes.

It's extremely odd that we want "why did he quit on the team" loyalty when it comes to bowl games then assume "human nature" will work FOR us when we dislike unions and players doing something for their teammates.

Some teams WON'T unionize but when there's $50M / yr coming in, many teams and elite players will say: there's plenty to go around so Billy over there who comes to practice every day, daps everybody in the locker room when we have a great game, and never bitches that he rarely gets a snap that isn't special teams deserves my support. There's plenty of money. Billy deserves a hit too.

 

[OldVol]

Can still find Joe College giving his all for State U in museums and FCS-below. Strangely that dynamic’s TV packaging is more limited and less viewed to the mass audience…but still available. Get ESPN+ and you can watch Holy Cross vs Lehigh anytime.

Haven’t been a fan of Holy Cross for 66 years and don’t plan on becoming one.

 

[BigALWiLson]

You do realize this money does not go directly to the kids. It is part of UT's operating budget, not NIL. As of now, two different issues.

And you realize the AG is trying to protect the money from NIL because the University has done back channeling to the Governors office etc. It ties together. All of it.

 

[BigALWiLson]

UT is not fighting so that students can get part of that $50M they'll get via the SEC via ESPN. UT almost certainly wants no part of actual "revenue sharing" and "collective bargaining" and "employee status" for athletes.

That amount of money schools are making is part of why we sit here today.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

That amount of money schools are making is part of why we sit here today.

It's EXACTLY why we're sitting here. Lots of people point at O'Bannon but GA and OK sued the NCAA several years ago for TV rights.

Back then, the NCAA WANTED to keep the game off national TV and WANTED to avoid the big money media companies offered.

FANS and SCHOOLS demanded, me included, more TV games. We got what we asked for and the money is now controlling the sport.

It's fashionable now to blame the NCAA, and they DIDN'T prepare for this mess at all, but there's blame in my mirror and there's blame in lots of ivory towers too.

 

[butchna]

Haven’t been a fan of Holy Cross for 66 years and don’t plan on becoming one.

Gordie Lockbaum do nothing for you?

 

[butchna]

Union dues will be, as in the pros, baked into the salary of athletes.

It's extremely odd that we want "why did he quit on the team" loyalty when it comes to bowl games then assume "human nature" will work FOR us when we dislike unions and players doing something for their teammates.

Some teams WON'T unionize but when there's $50M / yr coming in, many teams and elite players will say: there's plenty to go around so Billy over there who comes to practice every day, daps everybody in the locker room when we have a great game, and never bitches that he rarely gets a snap that isn't special teams deserves my support. There's plenty of money. Billy deserves a hit too.

And the universities have plenty to alot…reasonable amount vs whatever their resources are. More requires labor stalemates and neither party wants that. I predict any attempts at unionization dies when the language of payment comes up. “How do you wish to pay? CC/Debit/PayPal…” Response: Three pointer!

 

[butchna]

You CAN but the quality of Holy Cross vs LeHigh doesn't draw enough eyeballs to make it anything but a niche market for ads. If ESPN can't sell it, it ends up lumped into their "second tier" ESPN+ subscription+ service.

There's little chance you'd see that game on over the air broadcast, ad only supported TV except MAYBE in a local market.

Jimmy's and Joe's are the ones being hurt by the big money schools and fans creating this massive market for SEC, B1G, etc games. Unless they separate from schools like Holy Cross, schools like UT will destroy athletics at smaller schools.

Ivy League and non-scholarship programs have been playing since the invention of the game…that level of competition won’t cease.

 

[BigALWiLson]

It's EXACTLY why we're sitting here. Lots of people point at O'Bannon but GA and OK sued the NCAA several years ago for TV rights.

Back then, the NCAA WANTED to keep the game off national TV and WANTED to avoid the big money media companies offered.

FANS and SCHOOLS demanded, me included, more TV games. We got what we asked for and the money is now controlling the sport.

It's fashionable now to blame the NCAA, and they DIDN'T prepare for this mess at all, but there's blame in my mirror and there's blame in lots of ivory towers too.

Blame lies at the feet of the controlling body. They SHOULD have prepared. The NCAA has had damn near 3 years to make some sort of rules. They declined in DEC to meet with UT directly. They really haven't done much at all except point fingers and play favorites. They had their opportunity to come to the table with the SEC, Big and other conferences. What steps forward have been taken ? They chose to ignore doing anything.
Now they want to punish schools for violations that were not in effect until 14 months later. Sit down wipe the slate clean with all schools and put some real rules in place that are good for everyone. Small schools will never compete with the Larger state schools. Allow them to still get the payday games from big schools.
However the power 5 is really the Power 2. Those are the big money schools basically outside ND and a few others. Upsets will always happen, but in major CFB less endowed Schools are not competing much for the best players anyway. All parties will have to put together a model that works. Maybe have the SEC/ BIG put together a rules committee that governs football.

 

[esarmstrong]

Thats not true. The school is actually the middle man. The real flow is from the booster to the athlete. While the booster(s) may only want to pay the athletes that the school wants and only as long as they are playing for the school, the reality is all this money is coming from private parties outside the school. It would not be more transparent to give it to the school and then it goes to the athlete. SCOTUS has basically killed that because it is saying these athletes can negotiate their own value with these private parties.

Nope. NIL is a separate money source from the school.

Understood, but there would be no need for NIL collectives if schools were simply paying the players (which they eventually will be doing, IMHO). NIL's only exist due to the current status of college football. You don't see NIL's operating with professional athletes.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Ivy League and non-scholarship programs have been playing since the invention of the game…that level of competition won’t cease.

It depends. I think Ivy League schools could afford to transition with players as employees but those universities really are proud to be academic institutions.

They pay a lot of researchers who rarely, if ever, actually teach many students but run labs, bring grants, publish important research, etc. The value of those researchers is in grants and prestige of having Big Name Person in the field on staff and as an occasional mentor to the next Big Name.

I'm unsure football fits in that niche easily for them. The prestige of being an original keeps Vandy in the SEC and the prestige and tradition of Yale and Harvard in college football itself can probably sustain whatever they have to pay players.