A Succinct Brief on the NCAA Woes.

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Bottom line, NCAA is a training ground for professionals, not en mass professionals during their college days. How many commercials point out the he percentage of college players that EVER play pro sports. To push that envelope would likely force a separate division for the top players. The salaries for the bottom half of the 85 counters on 80% of the teams would probably not break even with the amateur model.

You have not been able to provide housing to employees since the late 70’s. Uncle Sam wants his cut. That used to be a staple in the apartment industry. Would be a good study to see the differentials in housing costs by school in player’s calculations when being recruited.

I bet a few lower court rulings will go that route, but the requirement to allow OUTSIDE income in the amateur model by the big court is what it is, no more.

The very presence of D3 sports is a big logic problem.

After the Dartmouth decision, the NCAA is likely to either accept professional athletes or accept that their are done as an arbiter of college athletics.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

I heard somewhere that Brock Purdy is making the rookie minimal , around $900K a year. How did we get to a place where a freshman college QB can make more than the starting qb playing in the Superbowl ?

Easy. It's called "the free market".

 

[VOLINVONORE]

I'm not an attorney, but here's a quote from the Harvard Law Review about what Alston v NCAA means concerning players being amateur or not.

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Although the Supreme Court did not have occasion to review the NCAA’s rules regarding compensation unrelated to education, its decision laid the groundwork for the dismantling of those rules in future proceedings. Prior to Alston, the Supreme Court had not definitively stated whether the NCAA’s compensation rules were subject to the rule of reason test under the Sherman Act; now that the Court has clarified that they are, the remaining restrictions on compensation cannot pass scrutiny. Justice Kavanaugh’s concurrence already raised serious concerns about the legality of the remaining rules by arguing that the NCAA cannot justify restricting compensation “by calling it product definition.”
++++

Basically, just because the NCAA SAYS athletes are amateurs, Gorsuch and Kavanaugh both doubted the NCAA could win a case challenging payment.

As I see it, if you're regularly doing something for someone and they're making money from your efforts AND paying you to do it, you're a professional.

I might be wrong but Gorsuch and Kavanaugh both essentially said, "Just because you insist your business is defined by being played by amateur athletes doesn't mean they actually are amateur athletes. You're going to have a hard time proving you're not exploiting labor and wage fixing."

So, I'm in decent company when I say: college players are en masse professionals.

One of the problems the NCAA has is they did not provide the proposed rules the the NCAA members for review and comment. They knew the rules would not be approved by the Universities, especially the part where the rules would be retroactive. They don't have a leg on which to stand.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

One of the problems the NCAA has is there did not provide the proposed rules the the NCAA members for review nd comment. They knew the rules would not be approved by the Universities, especially the part where the rules would be retroactive. They don't have a leg on which to stand.

The Alston case was the one that brought us NIL.

With the new TN and VA case, the NCAA seems to be just falling on its sword about NIL and getting the Courts to basically say "the NCAA can't regulate NIL in any way at all."

At that point, schools and their collectives REALLY start working openly together to recruit using NIL instead of the convoluted NCAA rules against this, that, and the other when everyone knows what's going on.

I'm okay with that and hope the lawsuits stop after the NCAA is useless to control transfers and useless to control NIL. Just make them sit in a corner until the Court pulls the trigger on them with the employee issue.

 

[Hairy Vols]

Does anyone think football or basketball players at major schools are “amateur“? That notion has sailed. They are pros now. School or state pride is pretty much gone. It’s about the money, where your friends are, where can you get the most exposure, and who the coach is.
Free agency ended my fandom in MLB but MLB survived my departure. I am sure college sports will also survive. I don’t blame the plyers for getting all they can but my enjoyment is significantly diminished.

It’s been about those things since the 90s.

 

[LWSVOL]

It depends. I think Ivy League schools could afford to transition with players as employees but those universities really are proud to be academic institutions.

They pay a lot of researchers who rarely, if ever, actually teach many students but run labs, bring grants, publish important research, etc. The value of those researchers is in grants and prestige of having Big Name Person in the field on staff and as an occasional mentor to the next Big Name.

I'm unsure football fits in that niche easily for them. The prestige of being an original keeps Vandy in the SEC and the prestige and tradition of Yale and Harvard in college football itself can probably sustain whatever they have to pay players.

Private schools can do a lot of things public schools have a harder time doing. It's why NLRB could ok Dartmouth.

State legislators control public school budgets. Approve them after making changes..

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Private schools can do a lot of things public schools have a harder time doing. It's why NLRB could ok Dartmouth.

State legislators control public school budgets. Approve them after making changes..

Some of the possible ripple effects from the Dartmouth decision include all college sports. Even if most of the schools are public, the conferences and the NCAA are private. A couple of my lawyer buds said they're love to argue that point in court.

 

[goooooovols]

That would be limiting the players earning potential and that is what the SCOTUS said was illegal.

How does the nfl use a salary cap in the same way… at some point to create fairness aren’t we going to have to have some sort of salary cap

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

How does the nfl use a salary cap in the same way… at some point to create fairness aren’t we going to have to have some sort of salary cap

The NFL doesn't have a cap on endorsement income. NIL is endorsement income.

 

[LWSVOL]

Some of the possible ripple effects from the Dartmouth decision include all college sports. Even if most of the schools are public, the conferences and the NCAA are private. A couple of my lawyer buds said they're love to argue that point in court.

I'm not saying it's impossible but going to be difficult to get around some things.. How will the general public react in the state of they think that tax dollars are going to fund players? Or any state for that matter.

I don't know. I just know there are a lot of road blocks to getting there...

 

[VolArmy74]

I'm baffled that knowing that players are getting paid for the time and effort they put in somehow "ruins" college football for them. Not once did I ever think "man, that was a nice throw by Nico but he's getting paid for being here and I don't like it."

 

[GUNTERSVOL]

The NFL doesn't have a cap on endorsement income. NIL is endorsement income.

THUS It will lead to the observation that in order to take out the risk of allowing endorsement income to become a side tool to skirt competitive driven salary caps, that the players sign up for initial entry into the league by a draft process, and movement by multi year trade restrictions and some free agency rules. Obviously legal. Same issue for NIL’s potential for the current scholly and care driven instead of salary model.

Possible solution path would be a new division players can select to be a part of if they want the freedom to earn OVER a defined amount of NIL. WHAT % of players are really getting game changing money, say over 25k? Find a number. Play anywhere for less or portal up if you want or deserve more. A major realignment, maybe tradition painful, but meets loose requirements that SCOTUS put out there to ALLOW it. Would still keep all the money in the NCAA, and let slightly modified D1, D2, and D3 go on down the road where there is already variability in schollys, and other participation rules and regs. Also obviously legal.

Nobody is fearing wing, mattress, and car lot deals impacting competitive balance.

I don’t think a decision about Dartmouth will carry the day anymore than a Nothwestern decision not that long ago.

A multi-tiered organization has to provide adequate path to kids earning money while playing.

 

[AdoptedVOL]

I'm tired

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

THUS It will lead to the observation that in order to take out the risk of allowing endorsement income to become a side tool to skirt competitive driven salary caps, that the players sign up for initial entry into the league by a draft process, and movement by multi year trade restrictions and some free agency rules. Obviously legal. Same issue for NIL’s potential for the current scholly and care driven instead of salary model.

Possible solution path would be a new division players can select to be a part of if they want the freedom to earn OVER a defined amount of NIL. WHAT % of players are really getting game changing money, say over 25k? Find a number. Play anywhere for less or portal up if you want or deserve more. A major realignment, maybe tradition painful, but meets loose requirements that SCOTUS put out there to ALLOW it. Would still keep all the money in the NCAA, and let slightly modified D1, D2, and D3 go on down the road where there is already variability in schollys, and other participation rules and regs. Also obviously legal.

Nobody is fearing wing, mattress, and car lot deals impacting competitive balance.

I don’t think a decision about Dartmouth will carry the day anymore than a Nothwestern decision not that long ago.

A multi-tiered organization has to provide adequate path to kids earning money while playing.

The reason the trade can be restricted, that is... free agency, etc is the Antitrust Exemption the pro leagues enjoy.

The NCAA doesn't have that and is currently getting sued every which way for attempting to restrain trade and alter the competitiveness of teams using NIL, transfers, etc.

Without that Antitrust Exemption, the NCAA is continually losing in the Courts trying to regulate the free movement and income of its labor.

 

[Sudden Impact]

It is interesting that the NCAA never got it.
The Service Academies were basically NIL before there was NIL. You are contracted for a future income upon graduation.
If you are capable of going Pro then you can get a deferment in the Reserves without serving but a few months on Active Duty.
You draw a monthly allowance and between the training and Education it is equivalent to 28 hours a semester.
Athletes basically entail the same hourly requirements. So what is the difference. Not much except for the compensation.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

THUS It will lead to the observation that in order to take out the risk of allowing endorsement income to become a side tool to skirt competitive driven salary caps, that the players sign up for initial entry into the league by a draft process, and movement by multi year trade restrictions and some free agency rules. Obviously legal. Same issue for NIL’s potential for the current scholly and care driven instead of salary model.

Possible solution path would be a new division players can select to be a part of if they want the freedom to earn OVER a defined amount of NIL. WHAT % of players are really getting game changing money, say over 25k? Find a number. Play anywhere for less or portal up if you want or deserve more. A major realignment, maybe tradition painful, but meets loose requirements that SCOTUS put out there to ALLOW it. Would still keep all the money in the NCAA, and let slightly modified D1, D2, and D3 go on down the road where there is already variability in schollys, and other participation rules and regs. Also obviously legal.

Nobody is fearing wing, mattress, and car lot deals impacting competitive balance.

I don’t think a decision about Dartmouth will carry the day anymore than a Nothwestern decision not that long ago.

A multi-tiered organization has to provide adequate path to kids earning money while playing.

NIL can't be capped.

 

[Danl]

It is interesting that the NCAA never got it.
The Service Academies were basically NIL before there was NIL. You are contracted for a future income upon graduation.
If you are capable of going Pro then you can get a deferment in the Reserves without serving but a few months on Active Duty.
You draw a monthly allowance and between the training and Education it is equivalent to 28 hours a semester.
Athletes basically entail the same hourly requirements. So what is the difference. Not much except for the compensation.

Is this true for all cadets or only athletes at the service academies?

 

[cgrish]

I heard somewhere that Brock Purdy is making the rookie minimal , around $900K a year. How did we get to a place where a freshman college QB can make more than the starting qb playing in the Superbowl ?

I hear you. but supply and demand dictates what a players value is at this time with nil. I personaly dont like the way nil is going, but I believe nil is here to stay.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I heard somewhere that Brock Purdy is making the rookie minimal , around $900K a year. How did we get to a place where a freshman college QB can make more than the starting qb playing in the Superbowl ?

I wouldn't cry too hard for Brock Purdy. Yeah, he's underpaid but that's collective bargaining in the NFL. He'll get paid after next year.

Purdy has NIL too. Deals with car companies, airlines, restaurants, etc. I've no idea how much he makes from NIL but I know it's about to go up after he starts in the Super Bowl.

Nico's salary from UT is $0. Brock makes about a $900k.

Nico started the Orange Bowl this year and can sign whatever NIL he can get. Brock Purdy is a starting Super Bowl and can also sign whatever NIL he can get.

I'll bet Brock Purdy has a lot more NIL in the next year than Nico, especially if he wins the Super Bowl.

 

[K87vol]

In some cases NIL could/will remove or lessen the impact of a player wanting to hurry to the NFL or NBA, if the athlete is making a
strong income from NIL I would think it is even currently working in this manner for many. It's just math at that point and once
you join the NOT FOR LONG league you can't put that paste back in the tube. I realize I'm stating the obvious but it's definitely
an adjustment to many players thought process I think especially if you think you are a later round or even a free agent type pro.

 

[Sudden Impact]

Is this true for all cadets or only athletes at the service academies?

All Cadets the ones that are not Athletes have Intramurals using time. I see your point with regards to NIL but my thoughts are that they are given a career path. At one time some of the Academies were not accredited.
Air Force a job that will eventually put some on a path to Airline pilot. Compensation during school is not that much but it is what it is.

 

[Woodlawn VOL]

I'm baffled that knowing that players are getting paid for the time and effort they put in somehow "ruins" college football for them. Not once did I ever think "man, that was a nice throw by Nico but he's getting paid for being here and I don't like it."

It is crazy, players have been getting money behind closed doors for long long time. Not all players are looking for highest dollar or only care about themselves. This is just what the ones that don’t like it try to portray. All these types hollering still find time to post and complain about it, just make a clean break if ya don’t want to watch. Plenty of folks will take the space. GBO!

 

[GUNTERSVOL]

NIL can't be capped.

NO attempt to cap the earnings of any individual, just the total amount of earnings on any one team. There will be room at other schools to accept the cap hit paid by collectives when schools fill up, just like counters and PWO’s. You think BAMA or GA could not sign 150 players on schollies. Exact same competitive control mechanism. What language in the decision eliminated this? Collectives are free to establish each player’s value, just not based on team they end up on. Fair market value I would think. Anything else would be pay for play which was not a design element in the ruling.

It is easier to control ZERO NIL, but with that off the table, caps, same for every team, are next best option. Nothing in the decision covered 24 hour 365 ability to change it.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

NO attempt to cap the earnings of any individual, just the total amount of earnings on any one team. There will be room at other schools to accept the cap hit paid by collectives when schools fill up, just like counters and PWO’s. You think BAMA or GA could not sign 150 players on schollies. Exact same competitive control mechanism. What language in the decision eliminated this? Collectives are free to establish each player’s value, just not based on team they end up on. Fair market value I would think. Anything else would be pay for play which was not a design element in the ruling.

It is easier to control ZERO NIL, but with that off the table, caps, same for every team, are next best option. Nothing in the decision covered 24 hour 365 ability to change it.

Again, that's illegal. It's monopolistic collusion in the absence of paid, unionized athletes with a union contract that includes a salary cap.

And even then, you can't cap NIL for any athlete or group of athletes. That's a violation of the Sherman Antitrust Act.

 

[BristolVol]

Again, that's illegal. It's monopolistic collusion in the absence of paid, unionized athletes with a union contract that includes a salary cap.

And even then, you can't cap NIL for any athlete or group of athletes. That's a violation of the Sherman Antitrust Act.

Why is so difficult to understand the difference between a salary and NIL?