A thought occurs to me...the Heupel trap.

#51
#51
Gandalf, I believe you have a valid point. I learned something a long time ago when I was coaching rec league girls soccer. I realize this is not comparable but ...
Like football, soccer is played with 11 players, defenders and offense. I had about 4 girls that were darn good at scoring. One year, I put them all on offense and lost quite a few games because my defense wasn't good enough to get the ball to them.
The next year, I pretty much put them on defense. My thinking was if I could keep the other team from scoring at all, I was always still in the game and just needed a break to get at least one score. The result of the season ... The Championship with no losses. Wound up by wearing down the other team and then towards the end of the game, turn 1 or 2 of the star players loose to score.
Soccer like football is a chess game like one poster said. I think Heupel is a Master at playing the game of strategy.
 
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#52
#52
I recall when my son was 7 playing little league. The rule was 5 runs then the teams switch. An ole buddy of mine would joke and say meh, piss on defense…..just score 5. All it takes. In our case, just score 50 🤣
 
#53
#53
VFL-82-JP said:
That's a really great question about whether the US Army was using Sun Tzu's writings a century ago when Neyland was being educated and trained. I have no idea.

I think it would take a deep dive into some research or an actual military historian to figure it out. Wonder if @OneManGang knows...?
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Since Neyland graduated from West Point in 1916, this excerpt suggests that it is possible but, perhaps, unlikely: “The Art of War [reached] Western audiences following a French translation in the 18th Century, although an English edition wasn’t printed until 1910.” Mightier Than The Sword - Meet Some of Warfare's Most Influential Scribes - MilitaryHistoryNow.com.

On the other hand, Neyland's maxims presumably evolved over time and he did return to service twice during his coaching tenure at Tennessee, so it is at least possible that he could have been later exposed to Sun Tzu's teachings, as they gained more traction internationally.
 
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#55
#55
Volosaurus rex said:
Since Neyland graduated from West Point in 1916, this excerpt suggests that it is possible but, perhaps, unlikely: “The Art of War [reached] Western audiences following a French translation in the 18th Century, although an English edition wasn’t printed until 1910.” Mightier Than The Sword - Meet Some of Warfare's Most Influential Scribes - MilitaryHistoryNow.com.

On the other hand, Neyland's maxims presumably evolved over time and he did return to service twice during his coaching tenure at Tennessee, so it is at least possible that he could have been later exposed to Sun Tzu's teachings, as they gained more traction internationally.
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The legend goes, for over a century, many of the textbooks used by West Point cadets were in French. Mathematics and engineering texts in particular, but since the cadets had to be fluent in it anyway, a French edition of The Art of War might have sufficed and been used.....

Note: I can't confirm that legend is true. It's just what we learned as plebes.
 
#56
#56
VFL-82-JP said:
"Amid the turmoil and tumult of battle, there may be seeming disorder and yet no real disorder at all; amid confusion and chaos, your array may be without head or tail, yet it will be proof against defeat." -- Sun Tzu
[application: what appears disordered and chaotic to our opponents masks a higher-level purpose and order...Gandalf's "trap"]

It started at West Point, yes, Rex, we were issued The Art of War and had to study passages for one or more of our military science courses.

But I was still carrying it around in a cargo pocket (thankfully it's a thin book) a decade or more later, thumbing through it from time to time.

We covered Sun Tzu's lessons at the officer basic course, again at the advanced course, again at staff school (CAS3), and again at the Command and General Staff College. It is pretty much present throughout an American officer's career, along with some other classics like Clausewitz' On War. Well, for soldiers and marines, at least. Not sure about the Navy, Air Force, or Coast Guard.

Why do you ask, brother?


EDIT: Heh, as is often the case with Sun Tzu, the more I look into the pages, the more passages I find that can be useful to Gandalf's thoughts:

"By holding out advantages to him, he can cause the enemy to approach of his own accord...."
[application: draw the opponent out of the game plan that most favors him--in Kentucky's case, a plodding, ball control ground game--and encourage him to instead seek advantage in a passing attack that actually will not help him]

and

"Hence that general is...skillful in defense whose opponent does not know what to attack."
[sow confusion, leave the Kentucky offensive coordinator chasing phantasms of opportunities that aren't real]

and one more:

"The clever combatant looks to the effect of combined energy, and does not require too much from individuals."
[application: this is an aspect of the "bend but don't break" defensive approach we've talked about so often this season -- it also underscores the complementary nature of the defensive line and defensive backfield. Strength in one can provide strength in the other, so that no individual has to win any play on his own]
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It is nice to know West Point at least was focused on the classics at one point.

There was a time some years ago when NDU had courses available and I took a few in joint at another college while working on my masters in national security studies. In papers we read and wrote, there was a fair amount of reference to classics by Clausewitz, Sun Szu, Machiavelli and Musashi.

Some others of a more modern vintage which I think are essential reading (meditating really):
The Counterinsurgency Field Manual - rewritten by Gen Petraeus (dont take his advice on romance tho ;))
Thick Face Black Heart
On Guerrilla Warfare - Mao Zedong - and the biography Mao:The unknown story which details how he implemented it
Any and all of Robert Greene's treatises but especially on Power and War
To Dare and to Conquer
 
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#57
#57
VFL-82-JP said:
The legend goes, for over a century, many of the textbooks used by West Point cadets were in French. Mathematics and engineering texts in particular, but since the cadets had to be fluent in it anyway, a French edition of The Art of War might have sufficed and been used.....

Note: I can't confirm that legend is true. It's just what we learned as plebes.
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Most of the drill commands are still derived from original French commands. French was the major lingua franca before the 1900s, and was the language of communication when von Steuben (who spoke no English) was giving some of the earliest drill instructions to Continental troops (he often communicated via Alexander Hamilton, who had terrific command of the French language).

Anyway, here's some reading from a professor from Neyland's time at the academy. History of Foreign Language Teaching at the United States Military Academy on JSTOR
 
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#58
#58
Essentially what you are saying is...we obviously don't want any weak links in the defense....but if we had to have one the secondary or our passing defense is better than our run defense....because the weak run defense would allow for longer drives that would eat up the clock=keeping the ball out of our offenses hands. Tennessee was ranked 130th in TOP last year and 125th this year...so we have gotten a little better lol
 
#59
#59
Just noticed that? UT is mid pack in yds per completion. They are by far the highest in opponent pass attempts and pass attempts per game.

The ideal would be elite in yds per attempt. But teams will probably always have higher pass yds vs UT simply because they have to throw or be on the short end of a runaway game
 
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#62
#62
allenrikvik said:
I consider this coaching. He knows what his pieces are and maneuvers them accordingly. risk is an off day where the offense in not efficient and strong passing team and the shootout that ensues
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Are you dare suggesting this man knows how to coach?!!🤣. It's nice to have that after the crap we've endured
 
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#63
#63
We gamble on defense to make the big stop and then score quickly to force them to gamble on offense.
Kentucky will be going for it on 4th down by the 2nd qtr. It will backfire like it did with LSU.
 
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#64
#64
Why would you want someone to attack the worst thing about you? Teams pass more on the Vols because we've typically built larger leads and you ain't getting back in the game rushing 5 yards. Times a factor and you need to score and try to stop us to score again.
 
#65
#65
I've posted this below, but it seems to me that we are leaving the short routes there and concentrating on stopping the long routes and run. So, more or less, that's what you say in a much more verbose way.
 
#66
#66
PEPPERJAX said:
elf-bong.gif
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lol

what movie is that from?
 
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#67
#67
Gandalf said:
So reading through other fan boards to get a different read on our strengths and weaknesses I had something of an epiphany. To whit:

What if our weakness in the secondary is part of the overall strategy?

FOLLY! you say, but hear me out. Yes, I am aware that our secondary was not the strongest (sucked) even before we lost a number of starters there and I am not saying that the weakness was intended nor that it wont be gladly fixed once we have the talent to fill it.

But WHAT IF CJH has used the expected weakness of our secondary as part of the game plan by offering a soft underbelly for our opponents to target with passing attacks?

Everyone in CFB knows how explosive our Offense is and so key is for opposing defenses to keep our O off of the field as much as possible. The plan for that generally is to run run run and run some more, eating up clock and wearing down our defense. The problem for them is that we have a fantastic defensive line and are tough against the run (#8). Our secondary is very soft though and much more vulnerable.

So what if CJH essentially dares them to largely abandon plans to run (slow clock) and focus on the passing game, making it more of a shootout? Meanwhile, our Dline pass rushes probably 40% of the time, seeking sacks, TFLs and TOs. Our offense, on the other hand has a stout Oline and HH and the WRs are spreading the field to move the ball virtually at will with very few mistakes. Our Dline is good enough to hurt their offense FAR more often than theirs Dline can hurt us and even though they can score back, it takes them longer. Meanwhile, a single TO or 3 and out is met with another score by us and they are even further behind the 8 ball, so they have to rely even MORE on the passing game while we focus on that pass rush.

The point is, Huepel is using our known weakness to lure teams into a shooting war with us, because they are going to lose that - rather than sticking with the time of possession battle to keep it our of our hands. Sure they try it at first - everyone does - but then just one mistake and they get behind and they are forced to abandon it go pass heavy, playing into his main strategy. Alabama got behind and only because they have a fantastic QB, more slippery than a greased eel, were they able to catch back up.

Once teams decide to go to a shootout with us, their fate is likely sealed. Granted, there is a danger that we might make more mistakes on our O (and indeed several times we did and it allowed the other team to get back in the game) but most of the time, Huepel is depending upon other teams simply not being able to match our offensive production.

Our weak secondary:
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Well our secondary does play soft to try and keep everything in front of it; not to let the opposition take the top off so to speak. A bend but don't break type of D.
 
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#71
#71
From the people who brought you The Parent Trap now brings you..............................................The Heupel Trap:cool::D;)
 
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