abortion doctor charged of murder

#26
#26
DinkinFlicka said:
1. Back that up... otherwise it's just silly speculation from a silly point of view.

2. The idiots will... everyone else will realize that this was just a sick, disturbed man who had the means to perform these acts.

But hey, we all can't be sensible enough to distinguish abortion from straight up murder. We ARE human, aren't we?

Excellent post, especially the latter half.

I myself dislike the thought of aborting a fetus, but I support the right to letting the mother choose... even if such circumstance applied to myself.
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I don't think that statement shows a "silly point of view", I do think 1000 is probably an exaggeration.

Don't you think it's weird that all women (pro-life or not) always to refer to a wanted baby as a "baby" but it becomes a "fetus" when abortion is being considered. Of course "fetus" is proper medical terminology but it's used to dehumanize the process. It seems it makes it easier to treat a "fetus" as a cancer rather than treating a "baby" as a cancer.
 
#27
#27
azVolFan said:
I don't think that statement shows a "silly point of view", I do think 1000 is probably an exaggeration.

Don't you think it's weird that all women (pro-life or not) always to refer to a wanted baby as a "baby" but it becomes a "fetus" when abortion is being considered. Of course "fetus" is proper medical terminology but it's used to dehumanize the process. It seems it makes it easier to treat a "fetus" as a cancer rather than treating a "baby" as a cancer.
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I don't think it's nearly as weird as you're making it out to be. Of course it's our natural reaction to dehumanize medical procedures that carry the same moral conflict as abortion. If calling it a fetus makes it easier for one to go through the procedure (I can't imagine it being an easy ordeal for most), then dammit, call it a fetus.

Pro-choice does not make those who subscribe to it advocates of murder.
 
#28
#28
You can be excited about having a baby because you have a fetus. Fetuses become babies. It's like having tickets to a big game. You are excited about the big game that the tickets lead to.
 
#29
#29
"People knew near and far that if you needed a late-term abortion you could go see Dr. Gosnell," Williams said. White women from the suburbs were ushered into a separate, slightly cleaner area because Gosnell believed they were more likely to file complaints, Williams said.
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The Reverends will not say anything about this...
 
#30
#30
VOLatile said:
100% agree. I'd like to add that teaching abstinence obviously doesn't work.
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In most cases it doesn't.

The responsibility is typically not factored in to decisions like these. As it stands right now you can skip that part however.
 
#31
#31
DinkinFlicka said:
The notion that this was designed and has remained legal for the purpose of controlling the population of minorities is misleading.

You also need to think outside the box. Why are the ratios for minorities that much higher? Contraceptives cost money. Where's the effort in lowering the cost of contraceptives around this country? If you take a large enough group of poor minorities and quarantine them to specific parts of every major American city... abstinence isn't exactly a priority. I'm honestly surprised the ratio is that low.

And what of Hispanic women? How do their abortion rates factor into your equation? (or Ginsburg's words, for that matter)
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Again, condoms are free at any local clinic in urban areas. Issue is african men do not use them which is documented.

Again, though, I am only quoting Ginsburg. Another left wing liberal. These weren't my words. They were hers. She's the one who passed the law to make sure blacks were kept in check and don't get out of control I didn't pass the law. I think it's pathetic. I am anti-abortion. I would rather actually go into the inner city and actually raise the education levels and get them on track instead of acting like I am and never doing anything so I can get their vote but keep them under my thumb all in one swipe. It's pathetic.
 
#33
#33
VOLatile said:
Can't think of one person that's pro-abortion. While I support abortion legislation, I'm certainly not pro-abortion. In the end, the woman will find a way to get rid of an unborn child if desired. Abortion is just usually a more humane way to do it... I do not support late-term abortion.
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Humane? What's humane about murdering a child?
 
#34
#34
Abortion is a tough issue - it is a balancing of rights between mother and unborn child. Balancing rights issues are always difficult.

Pro-choice puts the balance to the mother; pro-life puts the balance to the unborn child. Both have merits. Tough, tough issue.
 
#35
#35
Two comments:

a) there is absolutely no debate that there was an element of racism in the founding of planned parenthood.

b) hard for me to determine when a fetus becomes a human, but also hard for me to understand how anyone can be pro late term abortion.
 
#36
#36
Ihatethebuckeyes said:
I would rather actually go into the inner city and actually raise the education levels and get them on track instead of acting like I am and never doing anything so I can get their vote but keep them under my thumb all in one swipe. It's pathetic.
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easier said than done to go raise the education levels in the inner city. my wife taught in the inner city for many years. it's unbelievable what % of her kids thought having a kid was the best way to a) get the love of their boyfriend and b) get state support so they could move out of their home.
 
#37
#37
droski said:
b) hard for me to determine when a fetus becomes a human, but also hard for me to understand how anyone can be pro late term abortion.
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Which brings us to the fundamental question - when is it a "person". I think all would have to agree that it happens prior to birth. At that point, being pro-choice means you support the right of one person to terminate the life of another for whatever reason they deem appropriate.
 
#38
#38
volinbham said:
Which brings us to the fundamental question - when is it a "person". I think all would have to agree that it happens prior to birth. At that point, being pro-choice means you support the right of one person to terminate the life of another for whatever reason they deem appropriate.
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i just saw the ultrasound of my friends fetus at 3 months. hard to not see an actual person there.
 
#42
#42
Its got more to do with timing. I know Im good at least 1 week out of the year.

Both of my girls (2 years apart) due dates were Jan. 18th.
 
#43
#43
RockyTopVol said:
Humane? What's humane about murdering a child?
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Potential child. Kind of depends on a person's definition of when the fetus becomes a child. The only cases I even remotely support are early term or very high risk. Late-term abortion is a big no-no for me. I wrote a paper in college about abortion, the differences between the methods, church involvement, and Roe v. Wade. Can't remember much about the paper other than it changed my mind from "it's a woman's body, let her do what she wants" to a "38 shades of gray" approach.


Side Story: I had an ex that had an abortion in a previous relationship. As soon as she told me about it and said, "I wasn't ready for a baby," I broke up with her. Complete and utter irresponsibility.
 
#44
#44
droski said:
i just saw the ultrasound of my friends fetus at 3 months. hard to not see an actual person there.
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yes but when you get to see a heartbeat and then don't a couple weeks later you start to realize it's not truly one.
 
#45
#45
droski said:
easier said than done to go raise the education levels in the inner city. my wife taught in the inner city for many years. it's unbelievable what % of her kids thought having a kid was the best way to a) get the love of their boyfriend and b) get state support so they could move out of their home.
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It's going to take time. I totally agree. I also believe there is not a single thing actually being down to change the structure of the inner city. I also believe that anyone who thinks abortion is mainly about the womans right to choose is kidding themselves. I made a point earlier and it got over looked. If you kill a pregnant woman. Shoot her in the head etc. You will be convicted of two murders. That is a serious double standard.

Abortion is being used to keep the sect of our society that is not as wealthy in population control. Yes, there are upper middle and wealthy woman doing this but on a whole 99% of abortions are happening to unwed mothers in lower tax brackets.

Fix the economy. Fix the social classes. Bring the bottom up and stop trying to bring the top down to meet the bottom. Then you will see a major drop in the abortion rate ... major drop.
 
#47
#47
To some extent I think there are four camps in the debate

1. Pro-life
2. Choose-life
3. Pro-choice
4. Pro-abortion

2 and 3 and the largest segments and 1 and 4 are the most vocal.

I've really reached a point where I believe abortion is wrong and will not change, but given America's current enviornment I would settle to allow abortion but not until the mother has had an ultrasound.
 
#48
#48
tigervol9802 said:
To some extent I think there are four camps in the debate

1. Pro-life
2. Choose-life
3. Pro-choice
4. Pro-abortion

2 and 3 and the largest segments and 1 and 4 are the most vocal.

I've really reached a point where I believe abortion is wrong and will not change, but given America's current enviornment I would settle to allow abortion but not until the mother has had an ultrasound.
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Im not sure I buy into 4.

I think having "choice" at that point in the situation is enough to satisfy that group. Even though in most cases there is a choice before that.

1 and 2 seem the same. Unless Im missing something.
 
#49
#49
BeecherVol said:
Im not sure I buy into 4.

I think having "choice" at that point in the situation is enough to satisfy that group. Even though in most cases there is a choice before that.

1 and 2 seem the same. Unless Im missing something.
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It's a small number, but I truly believe there is a group you can group into group 4.

1 and 2 tend to bleed back and forth but there is a difference in their agendas. I'd say the difference is that pro-life are the people who picket abortion clinics and do more of the the more vocal things. Group 2 would be more of the pregnancy resource centers like Hope Resource Center in Knoxville that actually works with pregnant mothers who are in the process of making a choice.
 
#50
#50
I'm not one to be that wound up by the things I see or read. I read the article about this guy while on the train to work this morning. This was a tough one to read. While there might be a fuzzy line between abortion and murder for some, depending on personal definitions and beliefs, this guy jumped right over that and committed murder by pretty much anyone's definition. Very hard to read about. The chicken with the head cut off comment was disgusting.
 
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