Abortion Rights

#778
#778
Here's a question for the anti-abortion crowd.

Do you think it is wrong to permit abortion when you have the power to prevent abortion?
 
#782
#782
Roustabout said:
Most of these questions don't follow.
Why an objective grounding for personhood? Because you are claiming the unborn aren't persons and not entitled to rights, and thus can be killed simply on the choice of the mother.
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Actually, I don't believe I've said all that.

However, if your standard for requiring objective grounding consists of an evaluation of how a concept will be used, then please, provide an objective grounding for when life begins. So far, you've appealed to scientific consensus without any consideration for why it exists (assuming that assertion is true).

If this method is sufficient to confirm your assertions, then why can I not appeal to the fact that a majority of philosophers are atheists or agnostics and conclude that theism is false?
 
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#785
#785
Wafflestomper said:
Actually, I don't believe I've said all that.

However, if your standard for requiring objective grounding consists of an evaluation of how a concept will be used, then please, provide an objective grounding for when life begins. So far, you've appealed to scientific consensus without any consideration for why it exists (assuming that assertion is true).

If this method is sufficient to confirm your assertions, then why can I not appeal to the fact that a majority of philosophers are atheists or agnostics and conclude that theism is false?
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I've already answered you on this.
It's a consensus because it's a fact, not a fact because it's a consensus. Conception being the first stage of human development is testable, repeatable and observable. Hell, you're a case study.
 
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#786
#786
therealUT said:
So, you can't give any reason to believe that abortion threatens society? Yet, you want it outlawed... why?
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So, let me get this straight. To take a moral stand on abortion, I have to concede your presuppositions about society and how it is bettered or worsened? No, I won't be doing that.

I've already spelled that out my position in length on this thread. Abortion destroys the future reality of a person. How that affects society overall, I couldn't begin to imagine.
 
#788
#788
Roustabout said:
So, let me get this straight. To take a moral stand on abortion, I have to concede your presuppositions about society and how it is bettered or worsened? No, I won't be doing that.

I've already spelled that out my position in length on this thread. Abortion destroys the future reality of a person. How that affects society overall, I couldn't begin to imagine.
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No, you can say abortion is morally wrong. But, unless you are committed to the government prohibiting anything and everything that is morally wrong, then you need other reasons for legal prohibition.
 
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#789
#789
therealUT said:
There's not a scientific consensus regarding the following:

When personhood appears.

When, if ever, a fetus is a living being.

When any being has rights.
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I've already stated I'm not arguing for personhood.

I'm not falling for burden shifting. Arguing that a fetus isn't living is your case to prove, not mine.
 
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#790
#790
therealUT said:
No, you can say abortion is morally wrong. But, unless you are committed to the government prohibiting anything and everything that is morally wrong, then you need other reasons for legal prohibition.
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Where did I say anything and everything?
 
#791
#791
Roustabout said:
I've already stated I'm not arguing for personhood.

I'm not falling for burden shifting. Arguing that a fetus isn't living is your case to prove, not mine.
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The only way that the proposition that a fetus is indisputably alive is when it is made in the same sense of, "My liver is alive". My liver doesn't have special rights.
 
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#793
#793
therealUT said:
The only way that the proposition that a fetus is indisputably alive is when it is made in the same sense of, "My liver is alive". My liver doesn't have special rights.
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Because your liver is a part of you. A fetus is a stage of human development, seperate from the mother. Sure the mother supports it, but it is wholly unique and seperate. That's a fact.

Your example doesn't follow.
 
#795
#795
Roustabout said:
Because your liver is a part of you. A fetus is a stage of human development, seperate from the mother. Sure the mother supports it, but it is wholly unique and seperate. That's a fact.

Your example doesn't follow.
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A fetus is a part of the mother until it is removed. So, just like my liver. Further, I can use the cells in my liver to grow a human being.
 
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