‘23 AL OT Stanton Ramil (Michigan St. commit)

[drvenner]

After reading 4 pages of comments I"m amazed most of you only talk about stars..... I know stars are important sometime but give me a kid who really wants to wear the orange & white and give his all every game. JMO

We need the highly ranked kids who do this.

 

[norrislakevol]

You can keep putting the cart before the horse... but the rankings follow coaches who prove they can sign talent... not the other way round.

It IS true that Bama competes for NC's because they sign talent and they sign talent because Saban knows how to evaluate and recruit great players. It is not true that Bama wins NC's because some group of reporters are great evaluators who independently give the highest ratings to the best players.

All that works hand in hand. You have to have star power AND good coaching and development. The only teams that have won titles in the SEC since the BCS era have had both great recruiting and great coaching. Tennessee, LSU, Auburn, Alabama, Florida and Georgia all had multiple great recruiting classes preceding their titles. Georgia and Auburn are somewhat outliers in this conversation IMO because I don't think that Chizik was that great of a head coach....he just had Cam Newton and good players surrounding him. I also don't think that Kirby is the best head coach either, but he is out talenting everyone, so it doesn't matter. James Franklin was a great coach, but he was never, ever going to win a title at Vandy. Not in a million years.

 

[miket4god]

Yeah the whole “gimme a kid who really really really wants to be a Vol” mindset is pollyanna nonsense.

I’d kill to line up and play for this team but I’m 44 and probably run a 5 second 40 now. But hey, I’ll give my all. You goobers want me at Free Safety?

Edit; I’m probably much slower than 5 that listed 5 second 40.

Guaranteed.

 

[HoleInTheRoof]

Guaranteed.

Well, whatever I run, take solace in the fact that I want to be a Vol and I’m giving it my all.

edit: I’m a poet and I didn’t even know it

 

[Leeleesteeth]

At first glance, I thought this said Polynesian sauce. Carry on though.

Getting an early start?

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

You can keep putting the cart before the horse... but the rankings follow coaches who prove they can sign talent... not the other way round.

It IS true that Bama competes for NC's because they sign talent and they sign talent because Saban knows how to evaluate and recruit great players. It is not true that Bama wins NC's because some group of reporters are great evaluators who independently give the highest ratings to the best players.

Bama, OSU, Clemson, UGA. You weigh in this every time and you lose every time. The fact remains that the teams that win at the highest rate have the most 4 and 5* players. You can try all the mental gymnastics you want but you cannot get around that fact.

Jesus Christ dude you are dense. Bama wins because they get the best talent. Period. You lose.

 

[gainesvol82]

At first glance, I thought this said Polynesian sauce. Carry on though.

Great, now I want Chik-Fil-A. Thanks stoner.

 

[swchandler1988]

So adding Ramil and Leacock would put our rating at around 258.17 for this cycle.

That rating was good enough for 11th/12th in 2022

So we are very much within striking distance of a top 10 class.

And that's before we get more guys plus inevitable ratings boosts for guys like Conyer or Jalen Smith.

Now we just need to impress on the field and it's a wrap.

Speaking of rankings boost, Stallings is probably going to leap up the boards. His knock now would be lack of production at his new position (not a big resume i mean). He’ll have plenty of visibility at Bishop Gorman and seems poised to tear it up. We actually dropped in ranking when he committed due to his current rating

 

[volbeast33]

Bama, OSU, Clemson, UGA. You weigh in this every time and you lose every time. The fact remains that the teams that win at the highest rate have the most 4 and 5* players. You can try all the mental gymnastics you want but you cannot get around that fact.

Jesus Christ dude you are dense. Bama wins because they get the best talent. Period. You lose.

Saban wins bc he is a great recruiter, evaluator, developer, and coach… that first national championship team had its share of 3* and less in the two deep…. You are wanting skip over several levels to become Alabama…. It doesn’t happen over night…. We need to become a dominant second level team first.

 

[VolFreakJosh]

The recruiting sites are WRONG a lot of times too.

Look at these players they’ve missed on in the past.

Hendon Hooker, Rashaan Gaulden, Cam Sutton, Cedric Tillman, Mathew Buttler…

Not saying recruiting sites don’t matter but let’s not act like they’re perfect with their evaluations.

We have players committed right now that has no business being ranked low as they are.

 

[miket4god]

Bama, OSU, Clemson, UGA. You weigh in this every time and you lose every time. The fact remains that the teams that win at the highest rate have the most 4 and 5* players. You can try all the mental gymnastics you want but you cannot get around that fact.

Jesus Christ dude you are dense. Bama wins because they get the best talent. Period. You lose.

I don't think he is arguing that fact. he is just saying that on3 and 247rate the players that Saban is after higher than the players that other teams are after.
Which one comes first the rating or Saban's attention.

 

[sjt18]

Bama, OSU, Clemson, UGA. You weigh in this every time and you lose every time.

Well, that begins to demonstrate why you keep being wrong. It isn't about "winning" an argument. It is about the fact that the cart does not lead the horse. If there were NO recruiting rankings or recruiting sites the same coaches would identify and sign great talent. If they couldn't follow the lead of great HC talent evaluators then the recruiting sites would be even less accurate than they are. For every 5* they hand out, they miss at least one... on purpose to jack up their accuracy. Same for 4*.

The fact remains that the teams that win at the highest rate have the most 4 and 5* players. You can try all the mental gymnastics you want but you cannot get around that fact.

See above. You are the one who has convinced yourself that the recruiting sites somehow independently forecast champions.

Jesus Christ dude you are dense. Bama wins because they get the best talent. Period. You lose.

Well, no. You are the one being dense though you basically stated the truth in this last sentence. It is talent that wins... not the opinions of reporters at 247 or Rivals. Do you think Nick Saban checks his 247 account before offering a kid? That is the DIRECT implication of the claim you keep making. You have the "cause-effect" relationship backwards.

 

[sjt18]

All that works hand in hand. You have to have star power AND good coaching and development. The only teams that have won titles in the SEC since the BCS era have had both great recruiting and great coaching. Tennessee, LSU, Auburn, Alabama, Florida and Georgia all had multiple great recruiting classes preceding their titles. Georgia and Auburn are somewhat outliers in this conversation IMO because I don't think that Chizik was that great of a head coach....he just had Cam Newton and good players surrounding him. I also don't think that Kirby is the best head coach either, but he is out talenting everyone, so it doesn't matter. James Franklin was a great coach, but he was never, ever going to win a title at Vandy. Not in a million years.

My objection isn't to the fact that HC's who have found and developed talent have been the ones to win championships. That was the case LONG before anyone did HS recruit rankings. My objection is to the idea that recruiting rankings in and of themselves are what makes a team talented. At best, the recruiting sites recognize the players Saban et al are getting are elite talents. More likely though... they're taking their cue from Saban and other elite recruiters.

 

[Godfatha]

We won a NC with guys from all over the country. Those guys played their asses off regardless of where they were from.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Well, that begins to demonstrate why you keep being wrong. It isn't about "winning" an argument. It is about the fact that the cart does not lead the horse. If there were NO recruiting rankings or recruiting sites the same coaches would identify and sign great talent. If they couldn't follow the lead of great HC talent evaluators then the recruiting sites would be even less accurate than they are. For every 5* they hand out, they miss at least one... on purpose to jack up their accuracy. Same for 4*.

See above. You are the one who has convinced yourself that the recruiting sites somehow independently forecast champions.


Well, no. You are the one being dense though you basically stated the truth in this last sentence. It is talent that wins... not the opinions of reporters at 247 or Rivals. Do you think Nick Saban checks his 247 account before offering a kid? That is the DIRECT implication of the claim you keep making. You have the "cause-effect" relationship backwards.

Lol. Yes talent wins. Yet you want to discredit the recruiting services when actual data proves you wrong. Does Saban check the 247 account when he offers a kid? I have no clue and neither do you so don’t waste your time thinking you do. I wonder though. It’s safe to assume that Saban probably offers more 3* players than 4-5*. Yet I wonder why he doesn’t take more 3* players? Could it be that the 4-5* players that the services rank, are just better players?

 

[Dadof2Vols]

The recruiting sites are WRONG a lot of times too.

Look at these players they’ve missed on in the past.

Hendon Hooker, Rashaan Gaulden, Cam Sutton, Cedric Tillman, Mathew Buttler…

Not saying recruiting sites don’t matter but let’s not act like they’re perfect with their evaluations.

We have players committed right now that has no business being ranked low as they are.

To further the conversation on it takes recruiter, developer and coach, would Hooker be in anyones conversation without CJH and the UT’s players around him last year? I say no one would be talking about him.

 

[MarcoVol]

To further the conversation on it takes recruiter, developer and coach, would Hooker be in anyones conversation without CJH and the UT’s players around him last year? I say no one would be talking about him.

People acting like development, and that some guys develop later, isn’t a thing.

 

[m1al]

After reading 4 pages of comments I"m amazed most of you only talk about stars..... I know stars are important sometime but give me a kid who really wants to wear the orange & white and give his all every game. JMO

Especially if they have a lot of stars.....

 

[LoudOrange]

Fine and well, but Rudy loved ND and gave his all, too, but you ain't beating bama/uga with a roster with a bunch of Rudy's on it.

Plus he was offsides.

 

[TBtheGBwiththeTD]

The recruiting sites are WRONG a lot of times too.

Look at these players they’ve missed on in the past.

Hendon Hooker, Rashaan Gaulden, Cam Sutton, Cedric Tillman, Mathew Buttler…

Not saying recruiting sites don’t matter but let’s not act like they’re perfect with their evaluations.

We have players committed right now that has no business being ranked low as they are.

Also, these kids haven't even played a down of their senior season yet. The evals and rankings will change, and we all know the various ways kids get over or under rated.

Hooker was a 4 star, Gaulden was a 4 star on 247, Butler was a 4 star on 247.

Recruiting services definitely miss on some guys, but a high 3 star isn't a bad rating either. Tillman is a rare example of a middle low 3-star type (who had zero other power 5 offers btw) who everyone was just wrong about.

Tillman is the classic late bloomer:
"
Tillman said he mostly has flown under the radar to this point because he’s a “late bloomer” who grew roughly 3 inches and added 30 pounds between his junior season and the start of his senior year. He claims to have been timed at approximately 4.55 seconds in the 40-yard dash, and he caught 37 passes for 774 yards and seven touchdowns as a senior at powerhouse Bishop Gorman.
“I was a late bloomer,” he said, "and I finally got the opportunity to start and I made the most of it.”"

 

[SSVol]

Talent wins. Stars are recruiting service *opinion* about talent. They are right more often than wrong, but even they have differences of opinion, and their opinions are limited to their ability to evaluate a player. If they can't due to limited film or camps, they generally can't offer as definitive an opinion. Absence of proof isn't proof of absence...meaning...without a solid evaluation, a low ranking may mean very little. Coaches are not using service ratings anyway, and they often base their opinion on one-on-one evaluation.

So do you trust your staff to evaluate, or not? As a whole, we really don't know yet. We do know that some (Martinez, for example) have put a decent number of lower ranked guys in the league. Garner has been a great developer, which probably starts with evaluation. Heupel has put up video game numbers more often than not, so again, that probably starts with evaluation. I like our chances, even with lower ranked players, particularly if they don't seem to be last minute fall backs.

Those of you that want to tear your clothes and put ashes on your heads because a service doesn't like a player as well as your coach will no doubt continue to do so, but I will remain hopeful until it is clear that I shouldn't.

 

[norrislakevol]

My objection isn't to the fact that HC's who have found and developed talent have been the ones to win championships. That was the case LONG before anyone did HS recruit rankings. My objection is to the idea that recruiting rankings in and of themselves are what makes a team talented. At best, the recruiting sites recognize the players Saban et al are getting are elite talents. More likely though... they're taking their cue from Saban and other elite recruiters.

Coaches offers are only a part of it. Elite measurables such as size, agility and 40 time, Camp performance, HS competition, ect also weigh into it.

 

[sjt18]

Lol. Yes talent wins. Yet you want to discredit the recruiting services when actual data proves you wrong.

No. You worship them as if they're the infallible rule of all things college football. You think that Saban's classes are talented because the sites rank his recruits high. When it is far more that they rank his recruits high because he does a great job of recognizing and recruiting talent. You give them FAR more credit than is due.

Does Saban check the 247 account when he offers a kid? I have no clue and neither do you so don’t waste your time thinking you do. I wonder though. It’s safe to assume that Saban probably offers more 3* players than 4-5*. Yet I wonder why he doesn’t take more 3* players? Could it be that the 4-5* players that the services rank, are just better players?

Saban like every other coach prioritizes some players over others. He may not recruit more 3* than 4/5*. He's in a space where he can be selective more than anyone else. But those players would have been his targets and would have been talented if the recruiting sites did not exist.

 

[sjt18]

Coaches offers are only a part of it. Elite measurables such as size, agility and 40 time, Camp performance, HS competition, ect also weigh into it.

They do but as we have seen much too often... that doesn't make them great football players.

How often are they accurate when they go out on their own and give guys high ratings who have mediocre offer lists?

 

[tn4elvis]

Having played at a fairly high level in my pre Dad/Granddad bod years I can tell you it takes both. The player has to have the talent and desire to get better. The best coaches recognize the players strengths and develop weaknesses till they are no longer a weakness. It’s not an exact science and both are needed for optimal performance.