Alabama Fan Robert Bowers Dies in Hospital After Bar Fight Following LSU Game

#51
#51
bamawriter said:
No, see, what was said was "This could have been avoided if the Bama fan hadn't been obnoxious," rather than "This could have been avoided had a couple of a**holes not beaten a man to death for being obnoxious." That's what I saw, because that's exactly what was said.

Either way, it doesn't appear that fanhood played any part in the incident.
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Well digging in to it there's a difference in fighting (for whatever reason) and once the guy falls to the ground the two guys continuing to hit and kick the unconscious guy.
And for the latter, why did everyone just stand around and let the two continue to beat on the guy??
 
#52
#52
TUSKtimes said:
Good chance to say that society has made life cheap. There is a dumbing down of family values no doubt and with the constant attention to meism, it's simply out of control.
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I think you're giving past generations way too much credit; this type of petty death has happened forever, you just hear about it more now.
 
#53
#53
bamawriter said:
Are they? Within the piss-off fan scenario (which no longer seems true), if a dude is being obnoxious, and two other dudes beat the crap out of him, the obnoxious guy is in no way shape or form to blame for the fight. Words aren't assault. Assault is assault. Premeditation is completely irrelevant.

Would it be better if everyone were polite to one another, and kept the smack talk within the bounds of playful banter? Absolutely. The victim might have been a complete ass. Doesn't matter.



Being obnoxious does not equate to "deserving to get your *ss beat." You deserve to get beaten up when you attack another person. That person then has the right to reasonably defend himself, which might be up to and including a complete butt whipping.

If your initial response to this story (or at least the earlier, seemingly inaccurate, report) is "this guy was obnoxious, so he deserved to catch a two-on-one beatdown, but he didn't deserve to die," the guess what? You're still a dick.
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Your first paragraph is hyperbole because we don't know what started it and all that's been mentioned is something about the niece. If he's cheering for his team and this happens then I agree. If he's talking sh!t that escalates while at a bar then what would anyone expect next?

My dad told me when I was young, if you go to a bar looking for trouble you're going to find it really quick.

While we still don't know what started this or why I don't agree with two jumping on one nor do I agree with the two still hitting the guy while unconscious on the ground.
 
#54
#54
Orange_Vol1321 said:
Well digging in to it there's a difference in fighting (for whatever reason) and once the guy falls to the ground the two guys continuing to hit and kick the unconscious guy.
And for the latter, why did everyone just stand around and let the two continue to beat on the guy??
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Is that what happened? Genuine question. The couple of reports I read don't say whether or not it was a prolonged beating.
 
#55
#55
Orange_Vol1321 said:
If he's talking sh!t that escalates while at a bar then what would anyone expect next?
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I attend football games pretty much every week during the Fall. I've seen drunken, obnoxious, terrible behavior from fans of every stripe. I've never see someone beaten to death over it. So, at least from my experience, manslaughter should not be the expected result of unrestrained sh*t-talking.
 
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#56
#56
VolsSportsFan said:
I think you're giving past generations way too much credit; this type of petty death has happened forever, you just hear about it more now.
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Lazy argument. You know, the kind that lets you go on offering your own brand of selfishness while feeling better about the world. The statistical murders and brutality as a matter of human record tower over "past" generations. Keeping stats is not a new art form for humanity.
 
#57
#57
TUSKtimes said:
Lazy argument. You know, the kind that lets you go on offering your own brand of selfishness while feeling better about the world. The statistical murders and brutality as a matter of human record tower over "past" generations. Keeping stats is not a new art form for humanity.
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Wow, didn't know this generation put the generations that wiped out Native Americans and enforced slavery to shame.
 
#58
#58
bamawriter said:
Are they? Within the pissed-off fan scenario (which no longer seems true), if a dude is being obnoxious, and two other dudes beat the crap out of him, the obnoxious guy is in no way shape or form to blame for the fight. Words aren't assault. Assault is assault. Premeditation is completely irrelevant.

Would it be better if everyone were polite to one another, and kept the smack talk within the bounds of playful banter? Absolutely. The victim might have been a complete ass. Doesn't matter.



Being obnoxious does not equate to "deserving to get your *ss beat." You deserve to get beaten up when you attack another person. That person then has the right to reasonably defend himself, which might be up to and including a complete butt whipping.

If your initial response to this story (or at least the earlier, seemingly inaccurate, report) is "this guy was obnoxious, so he deserved to catch a two-on-one beatdown, but he didn't deserve to die," the guess what? You're still a dick.
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Then I'm still a dick, whatever, and ok. The real issue, like I referred to in my original post, is that the fact it was at a bar and alcohol was involved probably contributed more than anything. In the fandom scenario, the likelihood of the fight even happening decreases significantly if one or both parties are sober.

But you can take your putting words in my mouth that "he had it coming to be killed" and shove your self-righteousness somewhere else.
 
#60
#60
Haven't read much about this, but it is tragic either way. There is no way I am going into a bar, club after putting a beat down on a rival team. Not saying that is what caused it or who is to blame. Just saying short of self and family protection, hurting kids or old people, I have no respect for situations like this. Very few things are worth fighting or dying for. To bad we just can't all get along.
 
#62
#62
bamawriter said:
It isn't worth refuting. Whether you "blame the victim" or not, if your first thought upon reading this story is "Bama fans are obnoxious, so this isn't surprising," you are a dick.
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Well they are pretty obnoxious, like they're the reason the team is so good.
 
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