Alabama's recruiting strategy

#77
#77
bamawriter said:
I never said I felt sorry for anyone in the situation. I suppose I feel sorry for the player no longer getting to play where he wants. But a wise man once said "You can't always get what you want."

Personal story: I dated a girl while I was at Belmont who played post for the women's basketball team. She was physically gifted for the game, seeing as how she's 6'5", but she really didn't play with with any physicality or aggressiveness. After a redshirt year, and a freshman year where she mostly rode the pine, her coach informed her that her schollie wouldn't be renewed, and he ultimately brought in a transfer to fill the spot. Fortunately for Amanda, she's quite brilliant, and her 3.9 GPA was enough for her to go right onto an academic scholarship. And she plainly acknowledged that she simply wasn't as passionate about the game as she'd been in high school.

So don't think that I can't see it from the perspective of the athlete. I've seen the practice up close and I still don't have a problem with it.
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This story has what to do with anything? You're talking about someone who lost their passion for the game, did nothing positive for the team, and had academic scholarships to fall back on to continue her education.

And yet...we're all talking about guys who still have passion for the game, still are positive members of the team, and DON'T have academic scholarships to fall back on.

There is literally nothing about your story and the more common victim of oversigning that parallel. You might as well have said, "I've seen the other side of this. You start by locating the flat tire, then get the jack and spare tire from wherever they're located in your car or vehicle. Next, jack up the car at the jackpoint closest to the flat tire. Use the tire iron to remove the lug nuts, carefully remove the flat tire, and replace with the emergency spare. Tighten the lug nuts back on, lower the car back down, and you're good to go. And that's why I have no problem with oversigning."
 
#78
#78
bamawriter said:
I was wondering when someone would reach the last bastion of the idiot. It took a little longer than I expected.
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Because none of your points hold any water. Reading your posts has become a fools errand.
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#79
#79
He won't understand. It's an honorable, but futile attempt to get him to change his views.


Ohio Vol said:
This story has what to do with anything? You're talking about someone who lost their passion for the game, did nothing positive for the team, and had academic scholarships to fall back on to continue her education.

And yet...we're all talking about guys who still have passion for the game, still are positive members of the team, and DON'T have academic scholarships to fall back on.

There is literally nothing about your story and the more common victim of oversigning that parallel. You might as well have said, "I've seen the other side of this. You start by locating the flat tire, then get the jack and spare tire from wherever they're located in your car or vehicle. Next, jack up the car at the jackpoint closest to the flat tire. Use the tire iron to remove the lug nuts, carefully remove the flat tire, and replace with the emergency spare. Tighten the lug nuts back on, lower the car back down, and you're good to go. And that's why I have no problem with oversigning."
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#80
#80
Ohio Vol said:
This story has what to do with anything? You're talking about someone who lost their passion for the game, did nothing positive for the team, and had academic scholarships to fall back on to continue her education.

And yet...we're all talking about guys who still have passion for the game, still are positive members of the team, and DON'T have academic scholarships to fall back on.
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How do you know anything about these players and what's going on in their heads? My ex-girlfriend still showed up, ran drills, did everything that was required of her. She simply wasn't as good as the other girls on her team and didn't have the drive to get better. There is nothing in the scholarship language that details passion or drive or motivation. Under a four year scholarship rule, the coach would have been forced to keep my ex as long as she was willing to show up. What's to prevent a kid from saying to himself "I just don't like football anymore, but I need the scholarship, so I'm going to do the minimum that's required to keep it"? That has nothing to do with a coach's evaluation; the kid decided it wasn't his thing anymore.

And your point about the academic schollie is a non-starter, as there is nothing preventing any athlete from earning the same thing. My ex didn't already have an academic scholarship waiting for her, but she did the work that was required while playing basketball. Myron Rolle won a Rhodes Scholarship, for crying out loud.
 
#81
#81
bamawriter said:
How do you know anything about these players and what's going on in their heads? My ex-girlfriend still showed up, ran drills, did everything that was required of her. She simply wasn't as good as the other girls on her team and didn't have the drive to get better. There is nothing in the scholarship language that details passion or drive or motivation. Under a four year scholarship rule, the coach would have been forced to keep my ex as long as she was willing to show up. What's to prevent a kid from saying to himself "I just don't like football anymore, but I need the scholarship, so I'm going to do the minimum that's required to keep it"? That has nothing to do with a coach's evaluation; the kid decided it wasn't his thing anymore.

And your point about the academic schollie is a non-starter, as there is nothing preventing any athlete from earning the same thing. My ex didn't already have an academic scholarship waiting for her, but she did the work that was required while playing basketball. Myron Rolle won a Rhodes Scholarship, for crying out loud.
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The single data point of a bammer ex-girlfriend is obviously indicitive of the entire population size.

Thanks for sharing.
 
#82
#82
rjd970 said:
The single data point of a bammer ex-girlfriend is obviously indicitive of the entire population size.

Thanks for sharing.
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Translation: "I've got nothing to back up my views other than my own personal distaste for the process. So I'm not going to try and argue facts, as that makes me unhappy."
 
#83
#83
bamawriter said:
Translation: "I've got nothing to back up my views other than my own personal distaste for the process. So I'm not going to try and argue facts, as that makes me unhappy."
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Not surprised with the nonsense coming from you.

Your whole girlfriend story is just a lame attempt to argue your position when all you other points are sh*t on at every turn.

Suggesting your GF story is a relevant fact in any area of this discussion is laughable, at best...and flat stupid at worst. But have fun with that.
 
#84
#84
rjd970 said:
Not surprised with the nonsense coming from you.

Your whole girlfriend story is just a lame attempt to argue your position when all you other points are sh*t on at every turn.

Suggesting your GF story is a relevant fact in any area of this discussion is laughable, at best...and flat stupid at worst. But have fun with that.
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Yes, you and some of your like-minded kinfolk have **** on my points, but you haven't done so with any kind of fact, figure, bylaw, story from someone who dealt directly with the situation, or any kind of intellectual analysis.

Rather, you continue to spew the same garbage about how bad oversigning makes you feel. And if it makes you feel bad, it has to be the devil's work. You use words like "unethical", but it's nothing but a buzzword, because none of your posts even indicate that you know what the word means. If someone is lying to these players, then prove it. Detail it. Chosing not to renew a scholarship is not unethical, even if it seems distasteful. Putting a kid on a medical schollie is not unethical unless medical professionals are coming up with fraudulent diagnoses.

You can say my personal story doesn't apply, but it does. You want to pretend like it's not the same thing, because then that would burst your little fantasy about the big bad football coaches in the SEC. She got cut in order to make room for another player. Isn't that exactly what you're complaining about? You'll say it's not the same, but you can't possibly explain how it's different.

I'll sit back and eagerly await your next fact-free post.
 
#85
#85
bamawriter said:
How do you know anything about these players and what's going on in their heads? My ex-girlfriend still showed up, ran drills, did everything that was required of her. She simply wasn't as good as the other girls on her team and didn't have the drive to get better. There is nothing in the scholarship language that details passion or drive or motivation. Under a four year scholarship rule, the coach would have been forced to keep my ex as long as she was willing to show up. What's to prevent a kid from saying to himself "I just don't like football anymore, but I need the scholarship, so I'm going to do the minimum that's required to keep it"? That has nothing to do with a coach's evaluation; the kid decided it wasn't his thing anymore.
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A player who does not have the drive or determination to improve their own play, and therefore the overall play of the team, is a detriment to the team. End of story.

Also, at no point have I suggested a mandatory four-year scholarship. I believe I've made my point perfectly clear on that, so if you feel like setting up someone else's viewpoint as a strawman with my name at it, have at it. If someone is detrimental to the team, they have earned the chance to have their scholarship revoked. If someone is not detrimental but simply "isn't good enough", that's unethical. From my standpoint, someone in that situation should be allowed to transfer without the one-year penalty.
 
#86
#86
It hit 50 degrees here today in January, ergo, global warming is true. My girlfriend was cut from a BBall team but got on academic scholarship, ergo, cutting players is fine.

I don't expect you to see how absolutely ridiculous you sound, and how your one story means jack squat in the scheme of things, but keep living in your fantasy world.

Reading comprehension is obviously not your strong suit, so let me summarize (yet again) the understanding of the situation that we all understand:

1. Rules are not being broken, Saban is acting within the rules and most of us would do the same thing if needed to compete for championships. The one year penalty should be abolished.

2. Comparing academic to athletic scholarship is apples to oranges, too many critical differences, including the lack of clear criteria for cutting a player.

3. Given the stated mission of the NCAA (whether "horsecrap" or not) loopholes that allow this type of recruiting is hypocritical at best and completely unethical at worst. In any case, the loophole needs to be fixed and an oversigning rule needs to be enforced.

4. IF Saban is selling the parents and recruits that he cares about the player and will take care of him, he is a lying POS taking advantage of 18 year old kids in order to keep winning and getting his $ million checks deposited. If he is not, I highly doubt he is telling them they are expendable and their education isn't in his interest at all.

I am positive I will end up saying all this again in some fashion because you can't seem to understand what we are actually arguing. But, I guess the only facts that matter in this entire debate is your GF and why she didn't like playing basketball. :crazy:
 
#87
#87
I would be willing to bet you will get a smarmy response. I would also be willing the bet that part of Saban's recruiting pitch to parents/prosects does not include, " We would love to have you here at Alabama, but if you don't pan out, get injured or another younger better prospect comes along we will cut your scholarship."

rjd970 said:
It hit 50 degrees here today in January, ergo, global warming is true. My girlfriend was cut from a BBall team but got on academic scholarship, ergo, cutting players is fine.

I don't expect you to see how absolutely ridiculous you sound, and how your one story means jack squat in the scheme of things, but keep living in your fantasy world.

Reading comprehension is obviously not your strong suit, so let me summarize (yet again) the understanding of the situation that we all understand:

1. Rules are not being broken, Saban is acting within the rules and most of us would do the same thing if needed to compete for championships. The one year penalty should be abolished.

2. Comparing academic to athletic scholarship is apples to oranges, too many critical differences, including the lack of clear criteria for cutting a player.

3. Given the stated mission of the NCAA (whether "horsecrap" or not) loopholes that allow this type of recruiting is hypocritical at best and completely unethical at worst. In any case, the loophole needs to be fixed and an oversigning rule needs to be enforced.

4. IF Saban is selling the parents and recruits that he cares about the player and will take care of him, he is a lying POS taking advantage of 18 year old kids in order to keep winning and getting his $ million checks deposited. If he is not, I highly doubt he is telling them they are expendable and their education isn't in his interest at all.

I am positive I will end up saying all this again in some fashion because you can't seem to understand what we are actually arguing. But, I guess the only facts that matter in this entire debate is your GF and why she didn't like playing basketball. :crazy:
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#88
#88
Vols520 said:
I would be willing to bet you will get a smarmy response. I would also be willing the bet that part of Saban's recruiting pitch to parents/prosects does not include, " We would love to have you here at Alabama, but if you don't pan out, get injured or another younger better prospect comes along we will cut your scholarship."
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Saban strikes me as the kind of guy that would tell a recruit he has to work his ass off or he gets canned.
 
#89
#89
justingroves said:
Saban strikes me as the kind of guy that would tell a recruit he has to work his ass off or he gets canned.
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I haven't seen him recruit, but I have seen some pretty high profile guys in the recruiting mode. They do indicate it will be similar to a job, and a lot of work. I actually don't mind Saban, seems like a weirdo, but he is a good coach.
 
#92
#92
I argued back and forth once in a thread with bamawriter. Till I realized I was posting against someone going by the moniker "bamawriter". Who used poor punctuation, vocabulary and syntax.

Which made me realize...he's actually a "bamawriter".
 
#93
#93
Good Read...Saban needs to be called out more like this:

Decoding Nick Saban's defense of oversigning, grayshirting - Stewart Mandel - SI.com

In light of all the defense in this thread of cutting a player not up to snuff...I thought this was a choice gem from Saban himself:

There has been quite a bit written about oversigning, so to speak, but we have never gotten rid of a player because of his physical ability
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Who really buys this garbage? I have to assume Bamawriter doesn't even believe this nonsense, since he sees nothing wrong with cutting a player who never sees the field.

As it turns out, Bama is also the only school in the SEC that doesn't release the number of scholarship players it has on its roster. Hard to imagine doing this unless you have something to hide.
 
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#94
#94
rjd970 said:
Good Read...Saban needs to be called out more like this:

Decoding Nick Saban's defense of oversigning, grayshirting - Stewart Mandel - SI.com

In light of all the defense in this thread of cutting a player not up to snuff...I thought this was a choice gem from Saban himself:




Who really buys this garbage? I have to assume Bamawriter doesn't even believe this nonsense, since he sees nothing wrong with cutting a player who never sees the field.

As it turns out, Bama is also the only school in the SEC that doesn't release the number of scholarship players it has on its roster. Hard to imagine doing this unless you have something to hide.
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Who cares? Saban has the right to cut a players if he deems doing so is in the best interest of the team.
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#95
#95
Vol_4_Life said:
Who cares? Saban has the right to cut a players if he deems doing so is in the best interest of the team.
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Did you even read the article? Why doesn't he just flat out say that, when asked?

Seems to me, for all those who think it is fine to cut players at a whim, would much rather him come right out and say "Yes, I cut players. There is no rule against it. I do it in the best interest of the team, so who cares". Instead he lies and covers up what he is really doing, actually getting pissy with the press when they call him out on it? At one point he flat out claims he doesn't cut players based on ability. Please.

He is what he is, a mercenary. On some level, I respect that. Griping about the press calling you out on it, or other schools using it against you in recruiting is stupid, and at the very least, shows he knows what he is doing and doesn't want others to know about it.
 
#96
#96
VolsNSkinsFan said:
because you are supposed to go to college for 4 years...

When I applied to colleges, i was expecting to be there for 4 years, and it shouldnt be any different for a student athlete
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Nothing is preventing the student from staying at the school for the four years. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with it. When I was in undergrad, I received both scholarship and grant money. As a condition to continue to receive both, I had to perform academically or pay my own way... I really don't see the big deal.
 
#97
#97
Theres nothing wrong with making them "earn it."

No different than an academic scholarship. You grades fall you lose it. So if you can't cut it on the field, you lose it.

Post #7,000 :dance2:
 
#98
#98
Alabama recruiting strategy.........................

cash-wad.jpg
 
#99
#99
Have you been through Mississippi lately?

Yall may want to check on group rates these days.
 

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