Alex Jones

[Roughneck]

Here's one from the mighty CDC itself: Measles Outbreak among Vaccinated High School Students -- Illinois

And I quote:

"From December 9, 1983, to January 13, 1984, 21 cases of measles occurred in Sangamon County, Illinois.* Nine of the cases were confirmed serologically. The outbreak involved 16 high school students, all of whom had histories of measles vaccination after 15 months of age documented in their school health records. Of the five remaining cases, four occurred in unvaccinated preschool children, two of whom were under 15 months of age, and one case occurred in a previously vaccinated college student (Figure 5)."

Clearly those 21 students overrule the millions of people that don't have measles because of vaccines.

 

[jamesd1628]

Sigh.

CDC:

Measles --- United States, January 1--April 25, 2008

Honestly, it is laughable that we are even having this discussion.

Notwithstanding your condescending sigh, for every incident you cite like that, I can cite one with the opposite conclusion (and vice versa). The only way to definitively address that issue would be to accumulate all cases of measles since the vaccine was introduced and determine how many of the people effected had received the vaccine. It's beyond question, and admitted by the CDC, that some people who have contracted measles were vaccinated prior to contracting it. What is the overall percentage? No way to tell without comprehensive data, but there is a percentage, and in many documented and studied cases, the percentage is very high. It's a fact: in many cases, those who contract measles have been previously vaccinated.

Why is it that all those once horrible diseases are pretty much nonexistent today? Magic?

How many times are you guys going to ask the same question? Maybe it's the same magic that brought down the rates to near current levels before the vaccine was ever introduced. Most likely that magic is overall improvements to healthcare in general.

 

[jamesd1628]

Clearly those 21 students overrule the millions of people that don't have measles because of vaccines.

A conclusion for which I have yet to see any convincing evidence.

 

[Roughneck]

A conclusion for which I have yet to see any convincing evidence.

Do you have kids?

 

[jamesd1628]

Do you have kids?

Yes, and yes they have received some vaccinations in the past before I became aware of this issue, and no, they no longer receive vaccinations.

 

[PKT_VOL]

Notwithstanding your condescending sigh, for every incident you cite like that, I can cite one with the opposite conclusion (and vice versa). The only way to definitively address that issue would be to accumulate all cases of measles since the vaccine was introduced and determine how many of the people effected had received the vaccine. It's beyond question, and admitted by the CDC, that some people who have contracted measles were vaccinated prior to contracting it. What is the overall percentage? No way to tell without comprehensive data, but there is a percentage, and in many documented and studied cases, the percentage is very high. It's a fact: in many cases, those who contract measles have been previously vaccinated.

You are not even being rational. You are citing very small examples where the vaccine (for various reasons) helped cause the onset of disease in which they were trying to prevent. Anybody in this area of study will readily admit that it is certainly a possibility. In most vaccines, you are injecting a small amount of the actual disease into the patient. It is only natural that in some cases, there are going to be complications.

Now to the other side of the rational argument that you seemingly cannot wrap your head around. These vaccines have saved millions of lives. They have virtually eradicated many diseases which struck fear in humans all over the planet. There is no disputing this fact. Your only hope is to make the case that there are more people with adverse side-effects than there are people without these diseases because of vaccines. You simply aren't going to find any statistics which support this point of view.

How many times are you guys going to ask the same question? Maybe it's the same magic that brought down the rates to near current levels before the vaccine was ever introduced. Most likely that magic is overall improvements to healthcare in general.

Again, this is the critical difference between "mortality rates" and "cases" of Measles. They are not analogous terms. The quality of healthcare is certainly a contributing factor here.

Furthermore, with the experiments of Ignaz Semmelweis in the 19th century, we realized the nature of diseases, how they were spread, and how to take simple steps to prevent the spread of diseases. Couple this with the idea of quarantining people with infection diseases, and you have methods which will drastically decrease the amount of "cases" and thus the "mortality rates" of those diseases.

Now, this does not mean that people can use these steps to prevent Measles. Vaccines (on the whole) can prevent Measles.

 

[Roughneck]

This is also from the CDC.

Vaccines: Vac-Gen/Some Misconceptions

This is my favorite bit.

"Are we expected to believe that better sanitation caused incidence of each disease to drop, just at the time a vaccine for that disease was introduced?"

 

[jamesd1628]

You are citing very small examples where the vaccine (for various reasons) helped cause the onset of disease in which they were trying to prevent. Anybody in this area of study will readily admit that it is certainly a possibility. In most vaccines, you are injecting a small amount of the actual disease into the patient. It is only natural that in some cases, there are going to be complications.

Wrong again. I'm citing examples of measles outbreaks where the vast majority of those contracting it had been previously vaccinated. I'm not saying the vaccine caused the measeles, I'm saying someone was vaccinated and then, down the road, contracted measles. Two very different things, and there are many cases of this happening (with measles as well as all other diseases for which there is a vaccination).

Now to the other side of the rational argument that you seemingly cannot wrap your head around. These vaccines have saved millions of lives. They have virtually eradicated many diseases which struck fear in humans all over the planet. There is no disputing this fact. Your only hope is to make the case that there are more people with adverse side-effects than there are people without these diseases because of vaccines. You simply aren't going to find any statistics which support this point of view.

Wrong again. I haven't made any claims of adverse side effects. I've argued that there is no evidence that vaccines work. You are the one having difficulty wrapping your head around what I have said consistently throughout this thread. You can only parrot what you think is true, namely that vaccines have saved millions of lives. To me, there just isn't sufficient evidence to support that claim.

 

[jamesd1628]

This is also from the CDC.

Vaccines: Vac-Gen/Some Misconceptions

This is my favorite bit.

"Are we expected to believe that better sanitation caused incidence of each disease to drop, just at the time a vaccine for that disease was introduced?"

All that quote does is expose the idiocy and fraud of the CDC.

 

[Roughneck]

All that quote does is expose the idiocy and fraud of the CDC.

I legitimately feel sorry for you.

 

[jamesd1628]

I legitimately feel sorry for you.

I appreciate your concern.
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[PKT_VOL]

Wrong again. I'm citing examples of measles outbreaks where the vast majority of those contracting it had been previously vaccinated. I'm not saying the vaccine caused the measeles, I'm saying someone was vaccinated and then, down the road, contracted measles. Two very different things, and there are many cases of this happening (with measles as well as all other diseases for which there is a vaccination).

Wrong again. I haven't made any claims of adverse side effects. I've argued that there is no evidence that vaccines work. You are the one having difficulty wrapping your head around what I have said consistently throughout this thread. You can only parrot what you think is true, namely that vaccines have saved millions of lives. To me, there just isn't sufficient evidence to support that claim.

Wow. You are more ignorant than I ever imagined. You really have no mastery of this subject.

I outlined scientific outs for you in the case against vaccinations being the possible side effects and accidental exposure to the disease caused by vaccination. You have rejected those scientific probable causes and elected to go full retard by saying that vaccinations don't work. Dude, I was trying to give you every possible benefit of the doubt.

1) To your notion that somehow the vaccinations actually cause these diseases instead of prevent them, I suggest that you restudy the history of vaccinations. People without vaccinations contract the disease in question at a much higher rate than those who have been vaccinated. Its not even close. Its not even a semi-legitimate notion. Like I said earlier, depending on a person's immune system, the vaccination can cause an outbreak in the patient due to the fact that the vaccine normally consist of small amount of that disease in hopes that he patient will build antibodies to fight future exposure.

2) Vaccinations don't work, eh? I feel bad for your kids. Hopefully, they have gotten a good majority of the recommended vaccinations before their father lost his mind. Your lack of ability to comprehend microbiology (or trust professionals if you don't) has put your children in incredible danger. I hope your children wise up when they grow older and break this crazy chain of irrational thought. Hopefully, your grandchildren won't forced against their will into decisions about their health which put that an irrationally higher chance of contracting a number of terrible diseases.

 

[jamesd1628]

Wow. You are more ignorant than I ever imagined. You really have no mastery of this subject.

I outlined scientific outs for you in the case against vaccinations being the possible side effects and accidental exposure to the disease caused by vaccination. You have rejected those scientific probable causes and elected to go full retard by saying that vaccinations don't work. Dude, I was trying to give you every possible benefit of the doubt.

1) To your notion that somehow the vaccinations actually cause these diseases instead of prevent them, I suggest that you restudy the history of vaccinations. People without vaccinations contract the disease in question at a much higher rate than those who have been vaccinated. Its not even close. Its not even a semi-legitimate notion. Like I said earlier, depending on a person's immune system, the vaccination can cause an outbreak in the patient due to the fact that the vaccine normally consist of small amount of that disease in hopes that he patient will build antibodies to fight future exposure.

2) Vaccinations don't work, eh? I feel bad for your kids. Hopefully, they have gotten a good majority of the recommended vaccinations before their father lost his mind. Your lack of ability to comprehend microbiology (or trust professionals if you don't) has put your children in incredible danger. I hope your children wise up when they grow older and break this crazy chain of irrational thought. Hopefully, your grandchildren won't forced against their will into decisions about their health which put that an irrationally higher chance of contracting a number of terrible diseases.

The incredible layers of irony evident in this post are staggering.
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[myrobbins7]

I guess because we are on vaccines I will put this here..

The state board of health approved a mandate for flu shots for many health care workers, agreeing that protecting patients overrides objections about freedom of choice in vaccines.

The board voted 7-1 to approve rules requiring hospitals, nursing homes and some other health facilities to prove at least 90 percent of their employees get the flu vaccine in 2014-15. The required percentage steps up from 60 percent in 2012-13.



Colorado board approves flu-shot mandate for health care workers - The Denver Post

I think I would find another job if it came down to that.

 

[jamesd1628]

I guess because we are on vaccines I will put this here..

The state board of health approved a mandate for flu shots for many health care workers, agreeing that protecting patients overrides objections about freedom of choice in vaccines.

The board voted 7-1 to approve rules requiring hospitals, nursing homes and some other health facilities to prove at least 90 percent of their employees get the flu vaccine in 2014-15. The required percentage steps up from 60 percent in 2012-13.



Colorado board approves flu-shot mandate for health care workers - The Denver Post

I think I would find another job if it came down to that.

I guess people are just not capable of making their own decisions any more. Thank god we've got the government protecting all of us. They do such a wonderful job of that. The flu vaccine, just like the rest of them, is worthless at best.

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

You have to take Alex Jones with a grain of salt. Some things he is on point about, then there are some things he is way out there on.

No worse than Limbaugh, Beck, Levin IMO.

Choose your info wisely. Research everything and draw your own conclusions.