America's Future

[BeecherVol]

While I would not support prisoners doing work that others can and should be doing, I would support a monastic type of life in prisons. They should raise and prepare their own food. They do not need access to TVs. The greater majority of the day should be spent in silence, whether that is silence in community or solitude, I care not.

I agree with that. It shouldn't be geared toward cheaper labor for someone that comes at the cost of free citizens. But more toward taking care of themselves.

 

[therealUT]

There would still be plenty of people entering this country illegally, there always will be.

Under my system, it would not be illegal. Crossing a border with the intent to work is not crime, in my opinion. Drugs would also be legal, if I had my way; therefore, the only reason to cross the border would be for "honest" work.

 

[BeecherVol]

they can do work that gov't crews usually do like mowing and tree trimming. I know they have male and female chain-gangs in AZ

Yep. They came down my road the other day cleaning out the ditches.

 

[JayVols]

I can get behind a few of your points regarding education. I spent one year as a student teacher, dividing my time between P.E. class and 4th grade…. I am now working on a Business Degree.
One of the biggest issues in public schools is discipline. The teachers and administration have very few options in regards to holding kids accountable. It doesn’t help that some kids, in these public schools, lack positive parental influence at home. In theory, that would be less of an issue, because these same kids spend so much time, for so many years, within the confines of a school building. However, these same parents are the first ones to prohibit physical discipline. I, for one, think that some kids would respect their teachers if they had the subtle reminder of a paddle. Call me old fashioned, but what stops the kids even in 4th grade from carving profane words into the lunch table outside? A little pink slip of paper? The inability to eat their candy bar? Give me a break.

I’m not advocating we starting slinging barbed wood to every child’s behind, but I have seen how a child reacts after his parent verbally permitted “extra” punishment. This was after the child tried to undermine the principle in front of his class. Needless to say, that little chip fell off his shoulder. He was a smart kid who seemed to know there was “nothing they can do to me, I’ll tell my mom”. He also used “yes sir” a few more times, and in time gained favor of the principle. He realized it wasn’t so bad doing things the right way. You could actually have a slightly better time at school. Good for him.
My last point is supporting the competitive compensation of teachers. Along with my last 2 paragraphs, teachers are hamstrung in their classroom, but also in their wallet. I do not believe they need 85k a year to teach 4th grade, but some teachers give 100% every single day. It does show in their test scores, and even general performance and behavior in their students. They should be rewarded.

As a teacher of 17 years, I endorse this.:good!: The change from my first year to this year is astounding. Hard to get a child to care when by the time I get them, they care about little. I try my best with them, but it is getting more and more difficult to have any smidge of influence.

I would add that I would be happy to have my salary tied to my performance. I get aggravated when I bust my hump and get paid the same amount as the guy who pops a video in 3-4 times/week.

 

[VolsNSkinsFan]

I have a feeling that many of these people would take offense at you labeling them as low-skilled.

You are the one who said "Low Skilled", whats your definition of low skilled? A ditch digger?

 

[utvolpj]

Dang, y'all are hot today. This is another issue I strongly advocate. Traditional college is obviously not for eveyone. Skilled labor is what will support this county's economy moving forward.

I've thought it was a good idea when I heard the Germans had a similar system. Basically a 2 track HS

 

[BeecherVol]

Under my system, it would not be illegal. Crossing a border with the intent to work is not crime, in my opinion. Drugs would also be legal, if I had my way; therefore, the only reason to cross the border would be for "honest" work.

Would your system have a citizen limit?

 

[BeecherVol]

As a teacher of 17 years, I endorse this.:good!: The change from my first year to this year is astounding. Hard to get a child to care when by the time I get them, they care about little. I try my best with them, but it is getting more and more difficult to have any smidge of influence.

I would add that I would be happy to have my salary tied to my performance. I get aggravated when I bust my hump and get paid the same amount as the guy who pops a video in 3-4 times/week.

I understand the hardship involved with some students. There where points where I had that attitude. I had teachers that on paper did better by me, than I did by them. I had others that resemble the other definition you gave.

 

[VolsNSkinsFan]

We will need more people who can manage infrastructure, like plumbers, electricans, hvac. We will need more assembly line workers. We need more farmers.

 

[JayVols]

I've thought it was a good idea when I heard the Germans had a similar system. Basically a 2 track HS

Japan has one as well. GREAT IDEA. We, in the US, test ALL students. Japan's scores (their college bound students) are compared to our entire student population's scores.
A significant percentage of disruptive students in the regular classroom setting comes from those not interested in college. They don't see the relevance of the class compared to their vocational field of choice. Many times, there is no relevance.

 

[Mr_Henley]

It would take some planning and thought, but I think it still could work. At the very least, put them in a position to raise all of there food, and maybe find a way for them to produce their own power. If you decide not to work, you will be skinny and in the dark for much of your sentence.

This is the kind of idea our entire country needs to implement. If you are physically or mentally incapable, by all means, recevie some help. I don't mind paying taxes for that.

People like my step brother, who are 20 years old, capable, who have found loopholes, gets as much as I make working a part time job. If you are too lazy, not motivated, irresponsible, then what prosperity do you deserve? Minimal.

*I presented in class about (my step brother) being required to "work for his stamps and check". SHowing up to the courthouse, police department, library, somewhere to earn that money. Oh, and also pass regular drugtest to receive said money.

 

[therealUT]

You are the one who said "Low Skilled", whats your definition of low skilled? A ditch digger?

Basically, anything that does not require vocational certification and/or years of apprenticeship.

Electricians, plumbers, mechanics, etc. are skilled (and, for the most part, highly skilled) workers. Persons working on the majority of assembly lines throughout the world are low-skilled workers.

Most of the latter jobs no longer exist in America and are extremely tough for someone with no experience or education in the field to attain.

 

[BeecherVol]

This is the kind of idea our entire country needs to implement. If you are physically or mentally incapable, by all means, recevie some help. I don't mind paying taxes for that.

People like my step brother, who are 20 years old, capable, who have found loopholes, gets as much as I make working a part time job. If you are too lazy, not motivated, irresponsible, then what prosperity do you deserve? Minimal.

*I presented in class about (my step brother) being required to "work for his stamps and check". SHowing up to the courthouse, police department, library, somewhere to earn that money. Oh, and also pass regular drugtest to receive said money.

I don't mind helping (and have helped) people in need in the past. Just don't like the idea of giving it to someone and letting them decide where and who is helped with it.

 

[therealUT]

Would your system have a citizen limit?

It would not be legislated. The limit would naturally occur, in the distant future, as opportunity for work diminished (diminishing returns).

 

[lawgator1]

I am going to sound like a real conservative on this .....

Your proposal on education has some merit in my eyes because the employment of people within that system tends to be extremely parochial. Family members getting family members hired, transferred, that sort of thing.

I think if it were easier for people with four year degrees to qualify to teach and be seriously considered in their districts or ones close by, you'd see a quick rise in quality. As is, however, my impression is that hiring and promotion within a local school district seems to be very much a function of who you know or are related to.

 

[BeecherVol]

It would not be legislated. The limit would naturally occur, in the distant future, as opportunity for work diminished (diminishing returns).

If you stuck to your original OP I would consider voting for your system. This idea with a select few others may be a sticking point however.

 

[n_huffhines]

Parental Accountability

If, by our legal code, persons under a certain age are considered minors and are technically the wards of their parents, then why is it that parents are not held legally responsible for the criminal activity of their offspring?

If a minor commits a crime, the minor should be charged for said crime; however, the parent should also have to demonstrate that they did everything that was prudent and in their power to keep their child from taking the path of criminal behavior and should receive a certain percentage of their child's sentence.

The two issues I see with this stance are that it could possibly lead to more abortions, which the right would absolutely abhor, and that it would be tough to enforce (how does one go about proving the parental negligence).

I will address the latter objection first and then move back to the former. It is highly unenforceable. I see that; yet, the mere threat of enforcement would be enough to coerce some parents into taking a stronger role in their child's life, to include exhausting all possibilities of helping a "problem child". Also, many laws are currently unenforceable, if the prosecution were forced to try everything in court; instead, they offer pleas which are normally accepted and, hence, there ends up being a certain degree, while a lesser degree, of enforcement. I foretell a lot of plea bargains with parents in these cases.

As for the objection regarding an increase in abortions: I would also think that an increase in adoptions would occur and struggling parents would not continue to play games in the judicial system regarding adoptions that ultimately disturb the psyche of young children.

Wow.

 

[fl0at]

Methinks child abuse, and/or forced emancipation of teenagers would sky rocket if parents were criminally responsible for their children's crimes.
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[tvolsfan]

The Criminal Code

I may differ on a thing or two, but for the most part, I completely agree with the ideas. No reason to turn small time offenders into longtime felons.

Parental Accountability

I like the idea, but I'm not so sure I can agree with everything here. I could understand holding them accountable in some way if it was proven that they did a poor job raising their kids, but I don't want all parents to have to hover over their kids to make sure everything goes right. It depends on what kind of punishments you're talking about, though.

Education

I could probably get on board with most here. I definitely think kids need to be going to school more. The educational system does need some change. It seems that too many kids just don't have much of a chance.

 

[therealUT]

Methinks child abuse, and/or forced emancipation of teenagers would sky rocket if parents were criminally responsible for their children's crimes.
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This is definitely a possibility; however, it might also decline as physically abused children have shown a propensity to become violent criminals.

As for the forced emancipation, I would still advocate that parents are held responsible unless a court has previously agreed to the emancipation. Putting your kid out should not inherently reduce culpability in their conduct; in fact, I think it could be argued that it would increase the culpability.

 

[CSVol]

Methinks child abuse, and/or forced emancipation of teenagers would sky rocket if parents were criminally responsible for their children's crimes.
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(Read aloud in Grandpa Simson's voice) When people decided it was beneficial to development to end corporal punishment for children, this society began a slow downward spiral. When someone spanks their child in the grocery store and it's labeled 'child abuse' the end of our civilization is at hand.

 

[fl0at]

This is definitely a possibility; however, it might also decline as physically abused children have shown a propensity to become violent criminals.

As for the forced emancipation, I would still advocate that parents are held responsible unless a court has previously agreed to the emancipation. Putting your kid out should not inherently reduce culpability in their conduct; in fact, I think it could be argued that it would increase the culpability.

Yea, my point was court determined, as in the legal sense. Not kicking them out of the house, as that would almost certainly lead them down a more "crime related" path.

With drugs legal, that path would either be sloth or petty theft.
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[sjt18]

In my opinion, three sweeping in changes in three crucial areas need to occur in America in order to produce a society in which individuals have the opportunity to thrive or fail on their own merits.

The Criminal Code

America needs to do away with crimes of "delinquency", to include, but not limited to, drug crime. We spend too much time and resources fighting issues that are either unsightly, "morally reprehensible", and/or "indicators of future criminal activity". Actual crimes should be punished and punished severely, all else should be left alone until such an actual crime is committed. The only crimes that should be prosecuted, IMO, are direct crimes against property and persons: theft, assault, manslaughter, rape, murder.

As it is, the current punishments even against these crimes, in America, are ineffective. The penal system needs to be replaced by corporal punishment and punitive fines (enough to be corrective and deterrent), except in cases involving rape and murder (life sentences, no parole).

The penal system in America is simply an elaborate criminal academy. First time criminals enter as novices and are released a few years later as hardened professionals; the recidivism rates empirically demonstrate this point. Families of criminals are left without a parent and without that parent's income while said parent is locked away. This also plays a major role in creating a culture of criminals. Prison sentences remove family members and family members' income from a family for years; corporal punishment might mean a loss of income for a few days while said criminal is recovering before heading back to the workforce.

Parental Accountability

If, by our legal code, persons under a certain age are considered minors and are technically the wards of their parents, then why is it that parents are not held legally responsible for the criminal activity of their offspring?

If a minor commits a crime, the minor should be charged for said crime; however, the parent should also have to demonstrate that they did everything that was prudent and in their power to keep their child from taking the path of criminal behavior and should receive a certain percentage of their child's sentence.

The two issues I see with this stance are that it could possibly lead to more abortions, which the right would absolutely abhor, and that it would be tough to enforce (how does one go about proving the parental negligence).

I will address the latter objection first and then move back to the former. It is highly unenforceable. I see that; yet, the mere threat of enforcement would be enough to coerce some parents into taking a stronger role in their child's life, to include exhausting all possibilities of helping a "problem child". Also, many laws are currently unenforceable, if the prosecution were forced to try everything in court; instead, they offer pleas which are normally accepted and, hence, there ends up being a certain degree, while a lesser degree, of enforcement. I foretell a lot of plea bargains with parents in these cases.

As for the objection regarding an increase in abortions: I would also think that an increase in adoptions would occur and struggling parents would not continue to play games in the judicial system regarding adoptions that ultimately disturb the psyche of young children.

Education

The American Public School System needs to open teacher competition to any and all individuals with four-year degrees; needs to allow school vouchers and school choice; and needs to extend the school year year-round.

I do not know whether individuals with degrees in Education are the best teachers; currently, there is no way to find out. By opening the workforce to competition, education majors will have the opportunity to prove they are better suited. Whether they do or they don't, it is a win-win situation for the American Education System: either they do and we have the better teachers or they do not and we have the better teachers.

Just as teacher competition would make schools better, so would school competition. Vouchers should be made available for those parents who wish to send their children to private schools. There are many who claim that this could ultimately kill public schools in areas where they are urgently needed. This is true, it could do this. It could also create a better public school in that area as teachers and administrators have to work to find out how to do more with less, as private schools have done for centuries. The secret of private schools has been discipline, not funding. Discipline and obedience are at worst cost-neutral and most likely cost-effective.

Finally, schools should be year-round. American children no longer need the summers off to work the farm. The stagnant summer months are tough for working families and require extensive reviews and reteaching of material that should have already been learned. Until the age in which individuals are legally allowed to work (15 or 16, depending upon the state, IIRC), students should remain in school for the summer. This should include all grammar school students; high school students should have the summers off to work and to further develop individual drive and motivation, as that will be all they have once they graduate high school.

One question then some comments.

Question: Who hijacked your account? I agree with almost everything you said.

Comments: You cannot hold the parent accountable without providing them with some "ultimate rights" concerning their children. Corporal punishment rights are an absolute. But for older children, should parents be arbitrarily allowed to imprison or physically restrict their children? I would love to say all good parents have good kids... but that isn't true. Sometimes terrible kids come from very good homes.

Your proposal would also hit minority homes disproportionately. The "left" would never tolerate a truly color blind system like that.

However I would say your idea there is built on a false premise. MOST parents attempt to raise their children well and to be good neighbors and citizens. Revise the criminal code like you mention, give parents power over education, and something you didn't mention but begin to wean the populace off of gov't programs... and you will start to see the results you want.

Vouchers- great idea. I would add a basic standardized grade equivalency test as the ONLY requirement to get a voucher. If the test is failed then the child should be put into a public remedial school. The term of the school year should not be set by the state.

Last as I mentioned.... you have to wean people off of gov't dependency starting with those who can afford it most- corporate and "rich" welfare but working down to the lowest levels given to people able to perform work.

 

[sjt18]

I think on the whole you nailed it without saying it. We MUST return to a society built on freedom, rights, and individual responsibility. Well done.

 

[fl0at]

I say get rid of formal education almost entirely.

I like apprenticeships. Nothing like OJT.
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