Another Georgia player arrested

[Nerwen Aldarion]

Smith was a peon Grad Assistant.

Urban Meyer won two SEC and two National Titles. Whatever his vice, it was well worth it.

That’s sorta been my point. What is Kirby getting for all this?

Please tell me you did not just say it was okay for Urban to ignore arrests and wife beating because of titles.

 

[beamerman]

He was a graduate assistant at Florida for two or three years. Pfft. Nobody cares about him.

Hit me with Hernandez or Tony Joiner.

Meanwhile, is Georgia ever going to win a national championship with all these cultural issues?

National Championship and Ga don’t go together.

 

[Dudleys87]

Kirby is Bud Kilmer.

Win no matter the cost.

 

[Jaws]

Please tell me you did not just say it was okay for Urban to ignore arrests and wife beating because of titles.

Obviously violence against women is a bad thing, and nobody condones that. Several of these recent Georgia arrests have had females involved. I know you share my outrage over this, right?

I’m disappointed over anything bad that happened while Meyer was at Florida, but I sure do appreciate the Championships.

And I’m certainly not willing to give them up, no more than you’d be willing to give up any and all titles won under Phillip Fulmer where he recruited just as many questionable characters into the organization as Urban Meyer ever dreamed of? And before you shoot back about how much worse Meyer was/is than Fulmer, remember, Google is a thing and Fulmer had some real doozies.

 

[Nerwen Aldarion]

Obviously violence against women is a bad thing, and nobody condones that. Several of these recent Georgia arrests have had females involved. I know you share my outrage over this, right?

I’m disappointed over anything bad that happened while Meyer was at Florida, but I sure do appreciate the Championships.

And I’m certainly not willing to give them up, no more than you’d be willing to give up any and all titles won under Phillip Fulmer where he recruited just as many questionable characters into the organization as Urban Meyer ever dreamed of? And before you shoot back about how much worse Meyer was/is than Fulmer, remember, Google is a thing and Fulmer had some real doozies.

I’m not the one who said that Georgia’s lack of titles means the arrests and violence is not “worth it”. You did.
Also, I’m not clear on all of Fulmer’s players (I did not seriously start following football until he retired) so correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think he employed a wife beater and helped cover it up or had a murderer on the team.
This is not me saying Tennessee’s teams have been choir boys, far from it. But I would never and have never said that “hey it’s perfectly acceptable to overlook crimes in the interest of winning”. You did that. Not me.
Disgusting really. You should be ashamed

 

[Jaws]

I’m not the one who said that Georgia’s lack of titles means the arrests and violence is not “worth it”. You did.
Also, I’m not clear on all of Fulmer’s players (I did not seriously start following football until he retired) so correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think he employed a wife beater and helped cover it up or had a murderer on the team.
This is not me saying Tennessee’s teams have been choir boys, far from it. But I would never and have never said that “hey it’s perfectly acceptable to overlook crimes in the interest of winning”. You did that. Not me.
Disgusting really. You should be ashamed

[VIDEO=][/VIDEO]

 

[Jaws]

I’m not the one who said that Georgia’s lack of titles means the arrests and violence is not “worth it”.

You admitted you haven’t followed college football very long, and it shows. College football, unfortunately, has dozens of examples of teams with players and coaches who had personal and legal issues. Many of these coaches and players have won championships. I’ll accept your criticism of Meyer and Florida, some of that is certainly warranted, although you assumed a hell of a lot of facts not in evidence in your previous post, particularly about “Meyer having a murderer on the team.” That’s factually untrue in numerous ways, and while you’re lecturing me on what’s “disgusting” and “shameful,” slandering and making untrue statements such as that are indeed “shameful” and “disgusting.” Shame on you.

Moreover, you show this righteous indignation toward me over a flippant comment about Meyer winning championships, but you haven’t commented on the troubling trend of arrests at Georgia, which is what this thread is about. I assume, sense you appear to be so sanctimonious, that the Georgia cultural issues really bother you.

 

[Nerwen Aldarion]

You admitted you haven’t followed college football very long, and it shows. College football, unfortunately, has dozens of examples of teams with players and coaches who had personal and legal issues. Many of these coaches and players have won championships. I’ll accept your criticism of Meyer and Florida, some of that is certainly warranted, although you assumed a hell of a lot of facts not in evidence in your previous post, particularly about “Meyer having a murderer on the team.” That’s factually untrue in numerous ways, and while you’re lecturing me on what’s “disgusting” and “shameful,” slandering and making untrue statements such as that are indeed “shameful” and “disgusting.” Shame on you.

Moreover, you show this righteous indignation toward me over a flippant comment about Meyer winning championships, but you haven’t commented on the troubling trend of arrests at Georgia, which is what this thread is about. I assume, sense you appear to be so sanctimonious, that the Georgia cultural issues really bother you.

Hernandez didn’t Murder anyone??? You yourself said Hernandez was fair game!
I do have issue with Georgia’s cultural issues, I’m not condoning it because they haven’t won championships. I’m condoning you for saying championships make such cultural issues “worth it”

 

[Jaws]

Hernandez didn’t Murder anyone??? You yourself said Hernandez was fair game!
I do have issue with Georgia’s cultural issues, I’m not condoning it because they haven’t won championships. I’m condoning you for saying championships make such cultural issues “worth it”

You can’t be this misinformed.

Aaron Hernandez committed murder while playing for the New England Patriots, several years after he left Florida and Meyer. So since you’re retroactively attributing murders to Meyer and Florida, I guess you’ll then attribute the numerous drunk driving manslaughter convictions of former UT players to Fulmer? (See Leonard Little, Dwayne Goodrich and Donte Stallworth).

 

[Nerwen Aldarion]

You can’t be this misinformed.

Aaron Hernandez committed murder while playing for the New England Patriots, several years after he left Florida and Meyer. So since you’re retroactively attributing murders to Meyer and Florida, I guess you’ll then attribute the numerous drunk driving manslaughter convictions of former UT players to Fulmer? (See Leonard Little, Dwayne Goodrich and Donte Stallworth).

Great, he didn't kill anyone while he was in Florida (That we know of). Are you saying he didn't have ANY behavioral issues while in Florida?
Oh wait

Hernandez was among four former Gator football players who were questioned in connection with a September 2007 Gainesville shooting. The Pouncey twins and former safety Reggie Nelson also spoke to police. But Hernandez, just 17 at the time of the incident, fit the description of the man who fired five shots into a car, wounding both passengers.
During the spring of 2007, Hernandez was accused a punching a bouncer at a popular Gainesville establishment while out with former star quarterback Tim Tebow. Tebow reportedly tried to intervene, but Hernandez's punch managed to rupture the victim's eardrum.

But again, none of this has anything to do with the crux of the matter. You yourself said such behavioral problems are well "worth it" as long as Championships are won. Thats the biggest issue I have right now. Not that Florida, Tennessee or Georgia has had such problems now or in the past (obviously Georgia seriously needs to deal with these issues NOW and I'm not saying I don't have a problem with such issues) Just that the part I have problem with is YOU saying is perfectly acceptable as long as your team wins.

That is EXACTLY the kind of thinking that led to Jerry Sandusky raping dozens upon dozens of children and Penn State covered it up because, hey, who cares as long as they win?

 

[Jaws]

Great, he didn't kill anyone while he was in Florida (That we know of). Are you saying he didn't have ANY behavioral issues while in Florida?
Oh wait

But again, none of this has anything to do with the crux of the matter. You yourself said such behavioral problems are well "worth it" as long as Championships are won. Thats the biggest issue I have right now. Not that Florida, Tennessee or Georgia has had such problems now or in the past (obviously Georgia seriously needs to deal with these issues NOW and I'm not saying I don't have a problem with such issues) Just that the part I have problem with is YOU saying is perfectly acceptable as long as your team wins.

That is EXACTLY the kind of thinking that led to Jerry Sandusky raping dozens upon dozens of children and Penn State covered it up because, hey, who cares as long as they win?

Again, you misrepresent the FACTS. In the “shooting” incident while Hernandez was at Florida, nobody died. So how can someone have a “murderer” on the team when there hasn’t even been an alleged murderer? And further, nobody has any idea if Hernandez was actually involved in that incident. YOU are the one who incorrectly claimed Meyer had a murderer on the team, knowingly and immorally slandering the man and the Univeristy, while in the next sentence, preaching to me about how I should be ashamed of my “disgusting” position on appreciating Meyer’s championships. Look in the mirror next time before being so judgmental.

Are you also pestering Patriot fans on the need to be “ashamed” of that Super Bowl they won with Hernandez on the team? You pestering FSU fans about winning a national title with an alleged rapist at QB? Demanding USC fans denounce their titles because of OJ?

 

[Nerwen Aldarion]

Again, you misrepresent the FACTS. In the “shooting” incident while Hernandez was at Florida, nobody died. So how can someone have a “murderer” on the team when there hasn’t even been an alleged murderer? YOU are the one who incorrectly claimed Meyer had a murderer on the team, knowingly and immorally slandering the man and the Univeristy, while in the next sentence, preaching to me about how I should be ashamed of my “disgusting” position on appreciating Meyer’s championships. Look in the mirror next time before being so judgmental.

Are you also pestering Patriot fans on the need to be “ashamed” of that Super Bowl they won with Hernandez on the team? You pestering FSU fans about winning a national title with an alleged rapist at QB? Demanding USC fans denounce their titles because of OJ?

I'm passing judgement on someone who said that arrests and domestic abuse is perfectly acceptable as long as championships are won. Don't call me "self righteous" because I pointed out your incredibly inane and frankly scary mindset. Again, this is the EXACT same mindset that led to the PEnn State Scandal. I guess you don't have a problem with Paterno covering up child rape, after all he won championships and titles right?

I'm not "pestering" said fans because said fans are not coming on here and saying "Hey its all good that our players/coaches are rapists and thugs because they won champions". The only person doing that is YOU.

 

[Nerwen Aldarion]

The funniest part in all of this is that you just keep trying to come up with more examples of other bad behavior on other teams, as if that somehow excuses what you said. Did you or did you not say that having players with major behavior issues that committed terrible crimes and covering up for coaches who are committing crimes is "Worth it" because you won championships?

You don't need to answer that.

Smith was a peon Grad Assistant.

Urban Meyer won two SEC and two National Titles. Whatever his vice, it was well worth it.

That’s sorta been my point. What is Kirby getting for all this?

I’m disappointed over anything bad that happened while Meyer was at Florida, but I sure do appreciate the Championships.

So again, do you think its okay that Paterno and Penn State covered up child rape for decades? I'm sure they appreciate the championships too.

 

[Jaws]

I'm passing judgement on someone who said that arrests and domestic abuse is perfectly acceptable as long as championships are won. Don't call me "self righteous" because I pointed out your incredibly inane and frankly scary mindset. Again, this is the EXACT same mindset that led to the PEnn State Scandal. I guess you don't have a problem with Paterno covering up child rape, after all he won championships and titles right?

I'm not "pestering" said fans because said fans are not coming on here and saying "Hey its all good that our players/coaches are rapists and thugs because they won champions". The only person doing that is YOU.

You don’t understand sarcasm or college football rival smack talk. Most of that stuff is said in jest and meant to rile-up opposing fans, Georgia fans in this case. I can’t even count the number of times a UT fan has made light of, joked about, even encouraged Dan Mullen’s wife sexually molesting players on the team. I know this goes with the territory, I have a sense of humor about it and I laugh it off. Hell, we still get jokes about Jim McElwain’s ”beastiality” from his shark humping days. That doesn’t mean we all condone beastiality or coaches wives abusing players.

So to my original answer, it’s college football fandom. Lighten’ up, Francis.

 

[Jaws]

So again, do you think its okay that Paterno and Penn State covered up child rape for decades? I'm sure they appreciate the championships too.

Easy answer, of course not. But here’s a huge difference. Sandusky was CONVICTED of horrible crimes committed while he was at Penn State. Moreover, Penn State as a program was judged to be part of a massive cover up of this behavior and even enabling.

That’s a helluva leap to compare that whole horrible situation to a GA from ten years ago allegedly hitting his wife while at UF, and then falsely adding that there was an active murderer on the team.

My turn for a question; do you appreciate all of Fulmer’s accomplishments, including the 1998 national title, even though he had some bad characters who ended up doing some bad things?

 

[Nerwen Aldarion]

You don’t understand sarcasm or college football rival smack talk. Most of that stuff is said in jest and meant to rile-up opposing fans, Georgia fans in this case. I can’t even count the number of times a UT fan has made light of, joked about, even encouraged Dan Mullen’s wife sexually molesting players on the team. I know this goes with the territory, I have a sense of humor about it and I laugh it off. Hell, we still get jokes about Jim McElwain’s ”beastiality” from his shark humping days. That doesn’t mean we all condone beastiality or coaches wives abusing players.

So to my original answer, it’s college football fandom. Lighten’ up, Francis.

Jokes about molestation and abuse are not funny or should be condoned. As for the Jim McElwain "beastiality" thing is a completely different matter, for one, it wasn't even McElwain in the picture. It you want to compare a drunken naked fool lying on a shark with saying "Hey its okay to beat wives as long as we get championships" then you really need to rethink your priorities and sense of humor.

If you were joking about abuse and crimes being acceptable in the pursuit of Championships, then you have one sick and unfunny sense of humor. If you weren't then you are part of the problem that has infected sports for decades that has led to untold number of crime and coverup.

 

[Nerwen Aldarion]

Easy answer, of course not. But here’s a huge difference. Sandusky was CONVICTED of horrible crimes committed while he was at Penn State. Moreover, Penn State as a program was judged to be part of a massive cover up of this behavior and even enabling.

That’s a helluva leap to compare that whole horrible situation to a GA from ten years ago allegedly hitting his wife while at UF, and then falsely adding that there was an active murderer on the team.

My turn for a question; do you appreciate all of Fulmer’s accomplishments, including the 1998 national title, even though he had some bad characters who ended up doing some bad things?

I appreciate what Fulmer did, I do not recall any instances of the 1998 team or coaches being involved in any major crimes that year. I was only 8 so forgive me of my ignorance. If they did commit terrible crimes and it was covered up, then no I don't think the Championship was worth it.

I acknowledge Fulmer did good things, I also wince every time I hear the name "Fulmer Cup" because I'm aware of the incident surrounding it. That is a black mark on Fulmer, no doubt about it. If I had been involved on this board at the time I would have said he needed to fix the issues with his team, I wouldn't have condoned it by any means. I don't know of any specific incident of Fulmer covering up crimes involving players and coaches, I sincerely hope he did not. I won't say Fulmer needs to be punished for the crimes of others unless he himself committed a crime or covered up a crime in the process. We know Meyer did some cover ups, you yourself acknowledged that.

As for you saying the Penn State Scandal doesn't apply here. You yourself said that crimes/coverups committed were acceptable in the pursuit of championships. You said that Georgia's problems with players committing crimes would be okay as long as they were winning Championships. So it absolutely is applicable as Sandusky's crimes happened and were covered up for the same reason, to win Championships.

My point is that your statements are a slippery slope and could easily be applied to the same mentality of why Sandusky was allowed to go on for decades raping kids.

 

[Jaws]

I appreciate what Fulmer did, I do not recall any instances of the 1998 team or coaches being involved in any major crimes that year.

The standard, set by YOU, was not “being involved in crimes that year,” it was crimes committed even well after they left the University. Any crimes Zach Smith was charged and convicted of, occurred well after he left Florida. An angry wife calling the cops doesn’t = convicted of a crime. Likewise, Hernandez wasn’t charged with or convicted of anything at UF.

Dwayne Goodrich was part of the 1998 UT national title team and I believe Leonard Little may have been as well. Both were convicted of DUI Manslaughter, Goodrich killed two people, Little killed one, and was later convicted of another DUI even after killing someone earlier. So by YOUR standard, you’re not allowed to appreciate any of Fulmer’s success unless by extension, you’re a fan drunk driving and vehicular homicide. How horrible of you.

And just FYI for all the other UT fans out there, I like and respect Fulmer. His teams were absolutely legit, his teams were some of the best ever in the SEC. UT is rightly proud of that era and those teams. I’m just making a point here to someone who apparently wants me to disavow Florida’s national titles under Meyer.

 

[Nerwen Aldarion]

The standard, set by YOU, was not “being involved in crimes that year,” it was crimes committed even well after they left the University. Any crimes Zach Smith was charged and convicted of, occurred well after he left Florida. An angry wife calling the cops doesn’t = convicted of a crime. Likewise, Hernandez wasn’t charged with or convicted of anything at UF.

Dwayne Goodrich was part of the 1998 UT national title team and I believe Leonard Little may have been as well. Both were convicted of DUI Manslaughter, Goodrich killed two people, Little killed one, and was later convicted of another DUI even after killing someone earlier. So by YOUR standard, you’re not allowed to appreciate any of Fulmer’s success unless by extension, you’re a fan drunk driving and vehicular homicide. How horrible of you.

And just FYI for all the other UT fans out there, I like and respect Fulmer. His teams were absolutely legit, his teams were some of the best ever in the SEC. UT is rightly proud of that era and those teams. I’m just making a point here to someone who apparently wants me to disavow Florida’s national titles under Meyer.

You brought up Hernandez, not me and said he was fair game. That being said, his later career as a murderer should not be used against Florida. His probable involvement in a shooting and certain involvement in beating someone up, yes that should be. He should have been kicked off the team for that behavior.

Did Goodrich and Little kill people or beat anyone up while why they were actual players? Thats what I care about. I can't and don't and shouldn't bring up the crimes of players and coaches that occurred after their tenure with the university is over. Bringing up Hernandez's murder was wrong, I acknowledge that, but his other crimes that occurred while a student are certainly fair game.

I'm not asking you to disavow the national titles. Just to disavow this mentality that its okay to have players and coaches that criminals and thugs because they win. I never said that titles/championships should be taken away. Just that it isn't worth overlooking crimes for.

Winning is not worth getting innocent people being hurt or killed. I don't think that is an extreme or self righteous position.

 

[Jaws]

Did Goodrich and Little kill people or beat anyone up while why they were actual players? Thats what I care about.

Not sure if Goodrich or Little got in trouble that year or not, but that didn’t matter earlier when you were slandering Meyer and Zach Smith and Hernandez.

Do you realize UT has two players currently on the team who have been previously arrested on some very serious charges, right? Kenneth George punched a cop and Bryce Thompson broke a restraining order, threatened a female and threatened to shoot up a school. I’m for letting Pruitt handle all that, you should be too. Same with Florida. Let them handle their own program how they see fit. But if I’m reading you correctly, this is a moral outage and these players should be extracted and all wins vacated? Otherwise, you’d be condoning it all.

Look, this thread was about UGA having some serious culture issues. A thread UF and UT fans should have been able to join forces and slam UGA. Let’s get back to that. 7+ arrests in the last 12 months is a big deal, and while UF and UT have both had a few issues, neither are anywhere close to Georgia’s current situation. Enjoy that while we can.

 

[Nerwen Aldarion]

Not sure if Goodrich or Little got in trouble that year or not, but that didn’t matter earlier when you were slandering Meyer and Zach Smith and Hernandez.

Do you realize UT has two players currently on the team who have been previously arrested on some very serious charges, right? Kenneth George punched a cop and Bryce Thompson broke a restraining order, threatened a female and threatened to shoot up a school. I’m for letting Pruitt handle all that, you should be too. Same with Florida. Let them handle their own program how they see fit. But if I’m reading you correctly, this is a moral outage and these players should be extracted and all wins vacated? Otherwise, you’d be condoning it all.

Look, this thread was about UGA having some serious culture issues. A thread UF and UT fans should have been able to join forces and slam UGA. Let’s get back to that. 7+ arrests in the last 12 months is a big deal, and while UF and UT have both had a few issues, neither are anywhere close to Georgia’s current situation. Enjoy that while we can.

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said that wins should be vacated, not once. In fact in the above post I said that you don't need to disavow titles. But I'm certainly not going to ignore arrests in the name of winning.

I am not aware of the Kenneth George situation, if he did punch a cop then he absolutely should not be on the team and I'm disappointed in Pruitt for not doing so. As for Bryce Thompson, the entire case was a he said/she said situation with little evidence of anything. The charges were dropped. In the eyes of the law he is innocent, we can't punish the kid for a crime he is not convicted/charged for. I certainly appreciate that Pruitt did suspend him until the investigation was over. The only witness was the girlfriend and someone who could not positively identify Thompson as the one who threatened to shoot up the school. Are you suggesting that only an accusation is enough to kick a player off the team and convict him? Because I have consistently said otherwise, I absolutely loath the current culture in our country of saying that if someone is accused of a crime then he (Because lets face it, its mostly against men) is automatically guilty and he must prove his innocence. It flies in the face of what our entire justice system is based on. The whole federal law that allows colleges to try students for rape themselves is one of the biggest perversions of justice in our country I have ever seen and I loath it entirely.

 

[Jaws]

I am not aware of the Kenneth George situation, if he did punch a cop then he absolutely should not be on the team and I'm disappointed in Pruitt for not doing so. As for Bryce Thompson, the entire case was a he said/she said situation with little evidence of anything. The charges were dropped. In the eyes of the law he is innocent, we can't punish the kid for a crime he is not convicted/charged for. I certainly appreciate that Pruitt did suspend him until the investigation was over. The only witness was the girlfriend and someone who could not positively identify Thompson as the one who threatened to shoot up the school. Are you suggesting that only an accusation is enough to kick a player off the team and convict him? Because I have consistently said otherwise, I absolutely loath the current culture in our country of saying that if someone is accused of a crime then he (Because lets face it, its mostly against men) is automatically guilty and he must prove his innocence. It flies in the face of what our entire justice system is based on. The whole federal law that allows colleges to try students for rape themselves is one of the biggest perversions of justice in our country I have ever seen and I loath it entirely.

Apply that same, impressive defense of Bryce Thompson to Florida players and we’d be fine. While Zach and Hernandez turned out to be very bad human beings, while at Florida, they were basically Bryce Thompson, never even charged with anything.

So it took you a minute but we’re starting to agree. Georgia’s current culture is horrible. If you think Kenneth George should be gone, Georgia’s got a hand full of dudes playing way worse than him. Say it with me, to hell with Georgia!

By the way, I’m good with Pruitt’s decision to keep George. I don’t condone the behavior but Pruitt has earned the right to handle it.

 

[Nerwen Aldarion]

Apply that same, impressive defense of Bryce Thompson to Florida players and we’d be fine. While Zach and Hernandez turned out to be very bad human beings, while at Florida, they were basically Bryce Thompson, never even charged with anything.

So it took you a minute but we’re starting to agree. Georgia’s current culture is horrible. If you think Kenneth George should be gone, Georgia’s got a hand full of dudes playing way worse than him. Say it with me, to hell with Georgia!

By the way, I’m good with Pruitt’s decision to keep George. I don’t condone the behavior but Pruitt has earned the right to handle it.

Were there not multiple witnesses to the Hernandez fight though? I think I remember Tebow being there (and then stupidly begging Meyer not to kick Hernandez off the team). That whole situation does not seem right at all to me. It smells bad.

Zach Smith did beat his wife while he was in Florida, he was even arrested for it.

 

[Jaws]

Were there not multiple witnesses to the Hernandez fight though? I think I remember Tebow being there (and then stupidly begging Meyer not to kick Hernandez off the team). That whole situation does not seem right at all to me. It smells bad.

Zach Smith did beat his wife while he was in Florida, he was even arrested for it.

You’re a master prosecuting attorney against Florida players but Johnny Cochran for the Tennessee guys.

Hernandez smacked a dude over a disputed bill at a restaurant. That was it. He had some bad mojo from the very beginning, no doubting that. But we have the benefit of hindsight. Tebow is all about forgiveness and redemption and resurrection. I wouldn’t characterize his trying to vouch for a 18 year old teammate as “stupid.” Hernandez was never charged or convicted of anything at UF. If every college-aged kid were arrested and convicted of being mouthy or taking a swing at someone, most of America would be convicts.

Same with Zach Smith at UF, again, you’re applying different standards. You commented favorably that Bryce Thompson was never charged or convicted, but fail to mention that Zach was never charged or convicted for any incident at UF. He got into a dispute with his wife, she accused him of slinging her against a wall by the shirt, he denied it. The cops came, arrested and booked him. He continued to deny, the case was eventually dropped.

Benefit of hindsight, Hernandez had some serious demons, but it’s tough to project an 18 year-old kid as an eventual murderer based off smacking a waiter over a bill. We now know Zach Smith is a complete slimeball. He was a GA for 3 years at UF. Nobody’s shutting the program down (hyperbole) over a young, dumb GA with an anger management issue in a volatile relationship.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

Go Gators?