Any JJJ updates?

[calban]

Fulkerson is our best defender with Bowden next.

As for how people are so fickle with players it reminds me of back home

The first ground ball hit to you is your legacy. Catch it and you are Brooks Robinson forever. Miss it and the rest of your career matters not. It was comical

You from Baldmer?

 

[VEKZY]

It should also be stated that one of them has been here since June and played and lived his entire life in the States while the other came over six weeks ago, English is his second language and doesn’t have the athleticism of the other player. Yet watching them you would think Vescovi was the 5*

And JJJ missed most of the preseason and has been battling a groin injury? I never discounted Vescovi. He has been awesome, I was defending him when people called him a turnover machine after the first few games and suggested he wasn't ready.

I think it's ridiculous to call JJJ a disappointment, and it shows a lack of basketball knowledge or just a lack of rationality.

 

[Willy14]

Anyone know if JJJ will be able to play Saturday? I know its been "day-to-day" for a while and I don't want him to come back if he isn't ready but we badly need him for Saturday in a must-win game.

 

[BruinVol]

I think there is something to be said in the fact JJJ spent the off-season being groomed to be a role player behind turner and Bowden. When SV was brought in it was clear the window was open for a bigger role. JJJ was really starting to come on using that bigger role as well before the injury

 

[Namorto1]

We need James for this stretch run if he can go. JJJ is going to be a very good, jack of all trades type of player. I have no worries about him long term. He already has shown some ability to improve his shot already and Barnes’ staff are pros in developing players. Defense and attacking/finishing at the rim and using his body are obvious areas he needs to work on. Seems like an extremely mature young man who will accept coaching.

 

[Roustabout]

Santiago Vescovi
View attachment 261020

Josiah Jordan James
View attachment 261021

They are performing very similarly in conference despite JJJ being injured. Yet JJJ is somehow disappointing. JJJ is also much better on defense.

James was a five star, highly recruited stud.
Vescovi came out is no where.

 

[zjcvols]

And JJJ missed most of the preseason and has been battling a groin injury? I never discounted Vescovi. He has been awesome, I was defending him when people called him a turnover machine after the first few games and suggested he wasn't ready.

I think it's ridiculous to call JJJ a disappointment, and it shows a lack of basketball knowledge or just a lack of rationality.

I don’t think it’s ridiculous.

I think it’s fair to say he’s been somewhat disappointing. He’s nowhere near as skilled as fans believed.

 

[cardvolfan]

I don’t think it’s ridiculous.

I think it’s fair to say he’s been somewhat disappointing. He’s nowhere near as skilled as fans believed.

Maybe he's a disappointment to you, and that doesn't surprise me. The kid has been behind the 8-ball with injuries, and he deferred to two seniors and wasn't as aggressive as he could have been. How about we release him from his scholarship since they are year-to-year?

 

[zjcvols]

Maybe he's a disappointment to you, and that doesn't surprise me. The kid has been behind the 8-ball with injuries, and he deferred to two seniors and wasn't as aggressive as he could have been. How about we release him from his scholarship since they are year-to-year?

Maybe the injuries have completely affected his skill set. I guess it’s possible. It’s not just an aggressive mentally he lacks. He just isn’t a skilled basketball player nor is he an elite athlete. Again, that could be the injuries. He still provides value with his defense and rebounding.

But as usual, a criticism is made and now it’s complete exaggeration. “OH YOU WANNA PULL HIS SCHOLARSHIP” which I never said. Can you find the quote where I said that?

 

[cncchris33]

I don’t think it’s ridiculous.

I think it’s fair to say he’s been somewhat disappointing. He’s nowhere near as skilled as fans believed.

What fans are you referring to, though? The ones who believed he would come in and immediately average 18 ppg and take the SEC by storm, or those of us who consistently warned against that and recognized that he wasn't a flashy scoring machine who had some flaws and did a lot of things that go unnoticed?

He was never going to be the guy who came in and was immediately the best offensive player on the team. His injury and missing all of fall practice only further slowed his growth and development. Prior to aggravating his injury, he was playing really well and starting to develop as more of an offensive threat.

 

[zjcvols]

eFG%: 44.8%
TS%: 49%
FT rate: 23.8%
AST rate: 18.8%
TOV rate: 24.3%
AST/TO rate differential: -5.5%
USG rate: 17.8
PER: 10.8

He’s not a good offensive player right now. It’s pretty obvious. And if Springer is good as advertised and Vescovi continues his improvement and efficiency there’s a chance James is the 4th or 5th option on the team next year.

 

[cardvolfan]

Maybe the injuries have completely affected his skill set. I guess it’s possible. It’s not just an aggressive mentally he lacks. He just isn’t a skilled basketball player nor is he an elite athlete. Again, that could be the injuries. He still provides value with his defense and rebounding.

But as usual, a criticism is made and now it’s complete exaggeration. “OH YOU WANNA PULL HIS SCHOLARSHIP” which I never said. Can you find the quote where I said that?

I didn't say you said that. But, how about giving the young man a fair chance? Why decide 3/4 of the way into an injury plagued season that he isn't a skilled player nor an elite athlete? You may eventually be right, but there are many players who didn't excel initially, but turned out to be great players. Time will tell.

 

[zjcvols]

What fans are you referring to, though? The ones who believed he would come in and immediately average 18 ppg and take the SEC by storm, or those of us who consistently warned against that and recognized that he wasn't a flashy scoring machine who had some flaws and did a lot of things that go unnoticed?

He was never going to be the guy who came in and was immediately the best offensive player on the team. His injury and missing all of fall practice only further allowed his growth and development. Prior to aggravating his injury, he was playing really well and starting to develop as more of an offensive threat.

Where did anyone think he was gonna average 18ppg? You guys make stuff up to try and correct these made up hypotheticals. I’m not sure I saw anyone predict over 15 PPG for him. Do you base everything on twitter or something? Because it’s not on this board.

I wasn’t expecting a super star. I wasn’t expecting a first round pick even. I was just hoping he would be a good offensive player. He isn’t. He’s actually bad based on efficiency stats. Did you not watch how freaking terrible he was against Kansas? Remember how awful Tennessee was against Wisconsin when he was the PG?

I’m glad he’s a good defender and rebounder. Every team needs that. But for a five star guy that Barnes praised, came in as a top 20 player and has got plenty of opportunities with the ball in his hands, he’s been disappointing.

Some people have decided to lower what the expectations were before the season to say he’s not disappointing. And that’s fine. And yeah I understand he’s had an injury that took out for a significant portion of preseason (not like it’s football tho). Maybe the injury sapped all explosiveness and skill and he’s been that injured. It’s a possibility. I have my doubts but it’s possible.

 

[zjcvols]

I didn't say you said that. But, how about giving the young man a fair chance? Why decide 3/4 of the way into an injury plagued season that he isn't a skilled player nor an elite athlete? You may eventually be right, but there are many players who didn't excel initially, but turned out to be great players. Time will tell.

It’s been 20 games.

He hasn’t been good offensively.

Maybe he’s been injured all year and nobody said anything. I don’t know. I can only go off with what the numbers say, what my eyes see and the information I have.

 

[BruinVol]

It’s been 20 games.

He hasn’t been good offensively.

Maybe he’s been injured all year and nobody said anything. I don’t know. I can only go off with what the numbers say, what my eyes see and the information I have.

Well yea someone did say just that

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Just look at him. Built like a tight end, really tall for a guard, and handles the ball pretty well with that much size. Early on he was making some Vescovi-like passes that his teammates couldn't handle. The more time he practices alongside SV the more his skills will become obvious. He's been a pass first player without finishers on the receiving end. I look forward to seeing him on the court with Bailey, Keon, and Springer as well as SV.

 

[Namorto1]

eFG%: 44.8%
TS%: 49%
FT rate: 23.8%
AST rate: 18.8%
TOV rate: 24.3%
AST/TO rate differential: -5.5%
USG rate: 17.8
PER: 10.8

He’s not a good offensive player right now. It’s pretty obvious. And if Springer is good as advertised and Vescovi continues his improvement and efficiency there’s a chance James is the 4th or 5th option on the team next year.

It is likely he is a 4th or 5th option offensively next year, which may be the appropriate role for him. Hopefully Springer will be “that guy”, followed by Fulkerson, Pons, and then it will be Vescovi or James in my opinion. 4-5 guys averaging double figures...possible with this crew.

 

[zjcvols]

It is likely he is a 4th or 5th option offensively next year, which may be the appropriate role for him. Hopefully Springer will be “that guy”, followed by Fulkerson, Pons, and then it will be Vescovi or James in my opinion. 4-5 guys averaging double figures...possible with this crew.

Definitely possible. Assuming Springer is as good as advertised, the biggest thing James need to work on is a more consistent jumper. He also really needs to finish better. And continue his very good defense/rebounding.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Next year Barnes can put combinations from JJJ, Keon, Springer, Bailey, Walker, Pons, and JJ as the 5 on the floor and be able to switch on every screen and still have a lot of productivity on the offensive end.

 

[cncchris33]

Where did anyone think he was gonna average 18ppg? You guys make stuff up to try and correct these made up hypotheticals. I’m not sure I saw anyone predict over 15 PPG for him. Do you base everything on twitter or something? Because it’s not on this board.

I wasn’t expecting a super star. I wasn’t expecting a first round pick even. I was just hoping he would be a good offensive player. He isn’t. He’s actually bad based on efficiency stats. Did you not watch how freaking terrible he was against Kansas? Remember how awful Tennessee was against Wisconsin when he was the PG?

I’m glad he’s a good defender and rebounder. Every team needs that. But for a five star guy that Barnes praised, came in as a top 20 player and has got plenty of opportunities with the ball in his hands, he’s been disappointing.

Some people have decided to lower what the expectations were before the season to say he’s not disappointing. And that’s fine. And yeah I understand he’s had an injury that took out for a significant portion of preseason (not like it’s football tho). Maybe the injury sapped all explosiveness and skill and he’s been that injured. It’s a possibility. I have my doubts but it’s possible.

My man, you turn into such an emotional basket case when someone questions your opinion over the last few years. It didn't use to be that way. I'm not sure what changed for you.

18 ppg was just innocuous hyperbole, but the point remains. Look no further than our fanbase's general expectations when they see 5 stars next to a player's name. We still have fans, dozens who post on this very site, who refer to Scotty Hopson as a total bust because of the expectations they set forth for him. While I haven't been keeping score of everyone's PPG predictions, I don't think it's a stretch to believe a lot of our fans believed JJJ was going to lead the team in scoring, make 1st team All-SEC, and be this supreme offensive threat, simply because he was a 5*. That is just based on previous expectations and predictable disappointment with our former 5* players.
Anyone who watched JJJ's high school film, watched him in the McD's AA game, and studied his scouting report should have known that his biggest impact wouldn't be in the scoring column, that he was likely unselfish to a fault, and he was a developmental player offensively as he adjusted to learning the PG position in Barnes' system without the advantage of preseason practice.

I never assumed your expectations for him, and I certainly never adjusted my expectations. Quite frankly, he has exceeded my expectations, especially as a shooter, as that was one of his concerns, offensively.

 

[zjcvols]

My man, you turn into such an emotional basket case when someone questions your opinion over the last few years. It didn't use to be that way. I'm not sure what changed for you.

18 ppg was just innocuous hyperbole, but the point remains. Look no further than our fanbase's general expectations when they see 5 stars next to a player's name. We still have fans, dozens who post on this very site, who refer to Scotty Hopson as a total bust because of the expectations they set forth for him. While I haven't been keeping score of everyone's PPG predictions, I don't think it's a stretch to believe a lot of our fans believed JJJ was going to lead the team in scoring, make 1st team All-SEC, and be this supreme offensive threat, simply because he was a 5*. That is just based on previous expectations and predictable disappointment with our former 5* players.
Anyone who watched JJJ's high school film, watched him in the McD's AA game, and studied his scouting report should have known that his biggest impact wouldn't be in the scoring column, that he was likely unselfish to a fault, and he was a developmental player offensively as he adjusted to learning the PG position in Barnes' system without the advantage of preseason practice.

I never assumed your expectations for him, and I certainly never adjusted my expectations. Quite frankly, he has exceeded my expectations, especially as a shooter, as that was one of his concerns, offensively.

It’s a message board. I don’t get emotional over this stuff. Seems like your trying to read into something that isn’t there. Our opinions have varied over the years and you think that makes me a “basket case”. I’m just having a discussion. Kinda telling that because I disagree with you your response is that I’m some sort of emotional basket case.

And I knew he wasn’t going to be one of the two best players on the team. And based of what I read I thought most people’s expectations weren’t crazy (compared to incoming freshman Harrison Bailey in football). Hell even Barnes talked about JJJ being a little raw. But the overall lack of skill and explosiveness is very disappointing for a 5*. Even with Hopson his freshmen year you saw the crazy hops and finishing and shooting touch. James has shown none of that yet.

And he’s a better outside shooter yes but the lack of the rest of his game (his 2 point percentage is horrible) brings that down. I just don’t see JJJ ever becoming a #1 or #2 option while here. Which is fine. Still can be a really solid player here.

 

[cncchris33]

It’s a message board. I don’t get emotional over this stuff. Seems like your trying to read into something that isn’t there. Our opinions have varied over the years and you think that makes me a “basket case”. I’m just having a discussion. Kinda telling that because I disagree with you your response is that I’m some sort of emotional basket case.

And I knew he wasn’t going to be one of the two best players on the team. And based of what I read I thought most people’s expectations weren’t crazy (compared to incoming freshman Harrison Bailey in football). Hell even Barnes talked about JJJ being a little raw. But the overall lack of skill and explosiveness is very disappointing for a 5*. Even with Hopson his freshmen year you saw the crazy hops and finishing and shooting touch. James has shown none of that yet.

And he’s a better outside shooter yes but the lack of the rest of his game (his 2 point percentage is horrible) brings that down. I just don’t see JJJ ever becoming a #1 or #2 option while here. Which is fine. Still can be a really solid player here.

My apologies if I misinterpreted, but your first paragraph below seemed pretty emotional, especially in light of the fact that I didn't credit you with having any of the general opinions I outlined in my original post. Just that two sides of that coin existed; those who had outrageous expectations and those that had more realistic ones. And I asked a genuine question as to which of those two groups you were referring to when you said "he's nowhere near as skilled as fans believed".

Where did anyone think he was gonna average 18ppg? You guys make stuff up to try and correct these made up hypotheticals. I’m not sure I saw anyone predict over 15 PPG for him. Do you base everything on twitter or something? Because it’s not on this board.

 

[VEKZY]

It’s a message board. I don’t get emotional over this stuff. Seems like your trying to read into something that isn’t there. Our opinions have varied over the years and you think that makes me a “basket case”. I’m just having a discussion. Kinda telling that because I disagree with you your response is that I’m some sort of emotional basket case.

And I knew he wasn’t going to be one of the two best players on the team. And based of what I read I thought most people’s expectations weren’t crazy (compared to incoming freshman Harrison Bailey in football). Hell even Barnes talked about JJJ being a little raw. But the overall lack of skill and explosiveness is very disappointing for a 5*. Even with Hopson his freshmen year you saw the crazy hops and finishing and shooting touch. James has shown none of that yet.

And he’s a better outside shooter yes but the lack of the rest of his game (his 2 point percentage is horrible) brings that down. I just don’t see JJJ ever becoming a #1 or #2 option while here. Which is fine. Still can be a really solid player here.

Have you considered the fact that his explosiveness may be limited due to his injury?

Is every guard/wing in the 2019 top 25 a disappointment this year? With the exception of a few in the top 10?

Conference stats (per game)
#3 Anthony Edwards - 20.8PPG, 2.5APG, 5.9RPG
#4 Cole Anthony - 21.2PPG, 3.3APG, 7.5RPG
#8 Scottie Lewis - 8.7PPG, 0.7APG, 4.3RPG
#10 Tyrese Maxey - 14.2PPG, 2.8APG, 4.1RPG
#12 Nico Mannion - 13.3PPG, 4.5APG, 3.6RPG
#13 Josh Green - 10.4PPG, 2.4APG, 3.7RPG
#14 Kahlil Whitney - 0.5PPG, 0.2APG, 0.5RPG
#15 Bryan Antoine - 0.3PPG, 0.0APG, 0.1RPG
#18 Josiah-Jordan James - 10.1PPG, 3.7APG. 6.2RPG
#19 Samuell Williamson - 4.6PPG, 1.8APG, 5.8RPG
#20 Patrick Williams - 7.5PPG, 0.5APG, 3.7RPG
#21 Jahmi'us Ramsey - 15.7PPG, 1.7APG, 3.4RPG
#24 Wendell Moore - 8.9PPG, 2.0APG, 4.3RPG
#25 Tre Mann - 3.7PPG, 0.9APG, 1.8RPG

 

[cncchris33]

Have you considered the fact that his explosiveness may be limited due to his injury?

Is every guard/wing in the 2019 top 25 a disappointment this year? With the exception of a few in the top 10?

Conference stats (per game)
#3 Anthony Edwards - 20.8PPG, 2.5APG, 5.9RPG
#4 Cole Anthony - 21.2PPG, 3.3APG, 7.5RPG
#8 Scottie Lewis - 8.7PPG, 0.7APG, 4.3RPG
#10 Tyrese Maxey - 14.2PPG, 2.8APG, 4.1RPG
#12 Nico Mannion - 13.3PPG, 4.5APG, 3.6RPG
#13 Josh Green - 10.4PPG, 2.4APG, 3.7RPG
#14 Kahlil Whitney - 0.5PPG, 0.2APG, 0.5RPG
#15 Bryan Antoine - 0.3PPG, 0.0APG, 0.1RPG
#18 Josiah-Jordan James - 10.1PPG, 3.7APG. 6.2RPG
#19 Samuell Williamson - 4.6PPG, 1.8APG, 5.8RPG
#20 Patrick Williams - 7.5PPG, 0.5APG, 3.7RPG
#21 Jahmi'us Ramsey - 15.7PPG, 1.7APG, 3.4RPG
#24 Wendell Moore - 8.9PPG, 2.0APG, 4.3RPG
#25 Tre Mann - 3.7PPG, 0.9APG, 1.8RPG

Out of that group of 14, JJJ is...
7th in scoring
2nd in rebounding
2nd in assists

Quite the underachiever.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Out of that group of 14, JJJ is...
7th in scoring
2nd in rebounding
3rd in assists

Quite the underachiever.

2nd in assists