Anyone believe these 2012 POTUS poll results???

#52
#52
So nobody here would want Huckabee to run? I know he said he was out of the POTUS game after the last election, but if these poll numbers strengthen in the next couple of years, who knows?
 
#53
#53
Obama would avoid a debate with Gingrich like the plague. He would get absolutely embarrassed.

Note to the wise: The left and MSM demonize those they fear. If they "like" someone on the "right" then they either don't think they are conservative or else think they can't win- ex: Dole, McCain, Chaffee, Romney, and sadly Huckabee (they don't think he could win and neither do I even though I like him).

They hate all conservative women and will do all they can to destroy them. They hate non-white conservatives and seek to undermine them. They hate conservatives who are articulate and intelligent. They hate these groups because they would rather deny their existence... but can't.
 
#54
#54
i don't think gingrich can win. he'll come off as too superior and abrasive. that isn't to say i don't think he would be a good president.
 
#55
#55
tvolsfan said:
I'd be extremely upset if she got any support. Not just because I think she's less likely to defeat Obama, but also because I'm not happy seeing people as seemingly crazy as her getting so much attention. She shouldn't be getting so much attention from so many people.
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OK... time to challenge. What does she propose that is "crazy" or outside of mainstream American political thought?

I don't want her to run. I think it would take support away from solid conservatives who could beat Obama. I think she is best suited for what she is doing... but she gets attention because many, many people agree with her. When the ideas are separated from the person... Americans agree with her at a rate of something over 50%.
 
#57
#57
I won't vote for Romney. He was a "big gov't conservative" in Mass... but not really a conservative at all. He instituted a gov't HC program and was pro-abortion.

Then all of a sudden he's a born again straightline conservative when he decides to run for President. Someone who flips that quickly and completely is not trustworthy.
 
#58
#58
sjt18 said:
OK... time to challenge. What does she propose that is "crazy" or outside of mainstream American political thought?

I don't want her to run. I think it would take support away from solid conservatives who could beat Obama. I think she is best suited for what she is doing... but she gets attention because many, many people agree with her. When the ideas are separated from the person... Americans agree with her at a rate of something over 50%.
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Crazy may have been the wrong word. I've listened to her many times, and at no point does she seem like she has the intelligence or the experience to be the president. Claiming foreign policy experience because of Alaska's proximity to Russia was one of the things that bothered me.

I'm in no way trying to make an argument for the current leader. He was every bit as inexperienced and he seems to have no problem with his inability to get anything done as long as he can pass blame. I'd rather have Palin than him, I just don't have any confidence in Palin's ability to get the job done.

I just feel like people are often too quick to look for someone with identical views at their own without actually considering whether or not the person would make a competent leader.
 
#59
#59
lawgator1 said:
Yeah, he sure has faded from the POTUS scene, hasn't he? Wonder what his stategory is....
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Keep his head down as long as possible so that the left wing "politics of personal destruction" machine can't destroy him.
 
#60
#60
tvolsfan said:
Crazy may have been the wrong word. I've listened to her many times, and at no point does she seem like she has the intelligence or the experience to be the president. Claiming foreign policy experience because of Alaska's proximity to Russia was one of the things that bothered me.
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Clinton made similarly strained claims to "prove" he was ready to take over foreign policy. Every governor has to- Carter, Reagan, Clinton, W...

Her claim actually has more merit than most. Alaska does deal directly with the Russians on governmental matters IIRC.

I think we may have a similar impression. My wife loves her but her delivery just doesn't impress me.
I just feel like people are often too quick to look for someone with identical views at their own without actually considering whether or not the person would make a competent leader.
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I don't necessarily expect identical views. However the most dangerous thing you can have is a competent leader with dangerous political views. We should all be thankful that Obama is such a miserably poor leader.
 
#61
#61
sjt18 said:
I don't necessarily expect identical views. However the most dangerous thing you can have is a competent leader with dangerous political views. We should all be thankful that Obama is such a miserably poor leader.
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Just curious... why do you think Obama is a poor leader?
 
#64
#64
jwp1223 said:
You're joking right?
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How is a question a joke? I'm curious, as stated before, why one views Obama as a poor leader. I'm not a fan at all, but you have to admit for a "poor leader" he's managed to get some controversial things done.
 
#65
#65
IBlvNTmWrk said:
How is a question a joke? I'm curious, as stated before, why one views Obama as a poor leader. I'm not a fan at all, but you have to admit for a "poor leader" he's managed to get some controversial things done.
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The way he handled the issue with the immigration law in Arizona was disgraceful.
 
#66
#66
tvolsfan said:
The way he handled the issue with the immigration law in Arizona was disgraceful.
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Personally, I think a lot of what he's done has been disgraceful. However, from a leadership perspective I'm just looking at results. Somehow he managed to get his democratic party to pass a health care bill that, based on poll results, the majority of voters were against. As a result, a number of those Dems have now lost their seats.

Like him or not, I have a hard time thinking an ineffective leader could have pulled that off.
 
#67
#67
IBlvNTmWrk said:
Personally, I think a lot of what he's done has been disgraceful. However, from a leadership perspective I'm just looking at results. Somehow he managed to get his democratic party to pass a health care bill that, based on poll results, the majority of voters were against. As a result, a number of those Dems have now lost their seats.

Like him or not, I have a hard time thinking an ineffective leader could have pulled that off.
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All he had to do was bully his way through anything he's wanted done the past two years (Health Care, the way he's handled Arizona like has been mentioned)...it's not about being an effective leader, and its about it being his way or the highway, it seems like the voters (that would be me and you) voted last week that it was going to be actually the populace's way since he works for us and not the other way around.
 
#68
#68
IBlvNTmWrk said:
Personally, I think a lot of what he's done has been disgraceful. However, from a leadership perspective I'm just looking at results. Somehow he managed to get his democratic party to pass a health care bill that, based on poll results, the majority of voters were against. As a result, a number of those Dems have now lost their seats.

Like him or not, I have a hard time thinking an ineffective leader could have pulled that off.
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He sold the Ds on it, Thats all he had to do to pass the stuff. Is he a good salesman? Yes, many on his side paid for it.
 
#69
#69
IBlvNTmWrk said:
Just curious... why do you think Obama is a poor leader?
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Great leaders convince people to do or in his case support things they would otherwise not support. If there was no other message on election day past, it is undeniable that the vast majority of Americans do not believe in what Obama is doing... not even many who still voted Dem. They rejected the same policies he ran on... in great measure, they gave the first failing grade to his leadership.

Beyond that, I see almost no evidence that his staff is effectively led or is effective. He has not surrounded himself with strong, experienced people or leaders. He seems to fear people who are stronger, more/differently experienced, or smarter than he is. Strong leaders do not fear/disdain the talents, ideas, or success of other people- he does.
 
#70
#70
IBlvNTmWrk said:
Personally, I think a lot of what he's done has been disgraceful. However, from a leadership perspective I'm just looking at results. Somehow he managed to get his democratic party to pass a health care bill that, based on poll results, the majority of voters were against. As a result, a number of those Dems have now lost their seats.

Like him or not, I have a hard time thinking an ineffective leader could have pulled that off.
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You assume he led that charge? The liberals in Congress have been stewing on nationalized health care and waiting for the opportunity for at least 20 years. It really isn't hard to lead pigs to slop. If anyone in the WH was a major mover on that vote it was Emmanuel.
 
#71
#71
jwp1223 said:
All he had to do was bully his way through anything he's wanted done the past two years (Health Care, the way he's handled Arizona like has been mentioned)...it's not about being an effective leader,
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"Bullying" is a style of leadership, which in fact can be quite effective... just ask the military.

BeecherVol said:
He sold the Ds on it, Thats all he had to do to pass the stuff. Is he a good salesman? Yes, many on his side paid for it.
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Completely agree. Convincing others to buy in to something, as sjt states below, is a style of leadership.

sjt18 said:
Great leaders convince people to do or in his case support things they would otherwise not support.

Beyond that, I see almost no evidence that his staff is effectively led or is effective. He has not surrounded himself with strong, experienced people or leaders. He seems to fear people who are stronger, more/differently experienced, or smarter than he is. Strong leaders do not fear/disdain the talents, ideas, or success of other people- he does.
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sjt18 said:
You assume he led that charge? The liberals in Congress have been stewing on nationalized health care and waiting for the opportunity for at least 20 years. It really isn't hard to lead pigs to slop. If anyone in the WH was a major mover on that vote it was Emmanuel.
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Obama apparently convinced MANY people to vote for him who at the beginning of the election hadn't even given him consideration. Has he made bad decisions... yes. But if convincing others to do something they might not otherwise do is a sign of leadership, then he apparently has done that quite well.

As far as surrounding himself with strong people, lets not forget about Reagan's or Clinton's staffs... imo two effective leaders who had relatively weak people around them. Also, your second post seems to somewhat contradict your previous statement that Obama fears people who are stronger or smarter than he is.

How about this scenario... Obama managed to get something passed that he wanted (healthcare), managed to have a couple of others apply the primary heat (Emmanuel and Pelosi), and at this point has not personally had to pay a price for getting it passed. The fact that other Dems lost their seats, according to some, actually helps Obama potentially get re-elected.
 
#72
#72
Response in Orange
IBlvNTmWrk said:
"Bullying" is a style of leadership, which in fact can be quite effective... just ask the military.
Really? Effective? There is more descent among troops when you have a complete and total hard ass as your leader, then someone who expects you to be your best, trains and leads you to be your best. It's not effective in the military to be a bully. It's not a style of leadership, and it's stupid to thing that it's going to be good for a POTUS.


Completely agree. Convincing others to buy in to something, as sjt states below, is a style of leadership.





Obama apparently convinced MANY people to vote for him who at the beginning of the election hadn't even given him consideration. Has he made bad decisions... yes. But if convincing others to do something they might not otherwise do is a sign of leadership, then he apparently has done that quite well.

As far as surrounding himself with strong people, lets not forget about Reagan's or Clinton's staffs... imo two effective leaders who had relatively weak people around them. Also, your second post seems to somewhat contradict your previous statement that Obama fears people who are stronger or smarter than he is.

How about this scenario... Obama managed to get something passed that he wanted (healthcare), managed to have a couple of others apply the primary heat (Emmanuel and Pelosi), and at this point has not personally had to pay a price for getting it passed. The fact that other Dems lost their seats, according to some, actually helps Obama potentially get re-elected.
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#73
#73
IBlvNTmWrk said:
Personally, I think a lot of what he's done has been disgraceful. However, from a leadership perspective I'm just looking at results. Somehow he managed to get his democratic party to pass a health care bill that, based on poll results, the majority of voters were against. As a result, a number of those Dems have now lost their seats.

Like him or not, I have a hard time thinking an ineffective leader could have pulled that off.
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if he was a good leader he would have convinced the american populace that what he was doing was right.
 
#74
#74
jwp1223 said:
Really? Effective? There is more descent among troops when you have a complete and total hard ass as your leader, then someone who expects you to be your best, trains and leads you to be your best. It's not effective in the military to be a bully. It's not a style of leadership, and it's stupid to thing that it's going to be good for a POTUS.
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Yes... quite effective given the appropriate situation. Though not quite sure what one's lineage, or "descending" may have to do with leadership. OTOH, when you've signed up to serve in the military for a period of time, your commander during basic training could give a rat's arse about your "dissension", but thankfully is more concerned about making sure you understand chain of command and know how to follow orders.

The text below is from Leadership Styles in the Military. Also, just for clarification, I never said "bullying" was a good leadership style for the POTUS... I simply said is was a type of leadership. Please don't look for an argument where there is none.

Authoritarian leadership is extremely strict and rigid. It is the stereotypical boss giving orders to the subordinate. This leadership style is used during basic training, when drill sergeants teach obedience and respect to new recruits. This type of leadership does not involve yelling or abuse, rather it is a stricter form of appropriate leadership. Commanders may also choose to be authoritarian in time critical missions or during emergencies, where taking the time to debate orders would cause property damage, mission failure or injury.
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droski said:
if he was a good leader he would have convinced the american populace that what he was doing was right.
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Agree... which is probably what he will try to do over the next two years. However, my guess is he realized he didn't have time to take this approach (convincing the populace) given the timeframe he had to pass the legislation... nor was it necessary in order to get the legislation passed. Hence, he convinced those who would be casting a vote instead.
 
#75
#75
volinbham said:
Mitch Daniels would be my choice at this point.
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If I were Obama I'd be very scared of Daniels in 2012. He would absolutely devour the moderate vote. I doubt he'd run and of course he'd never get nominated (raised taxes to balance the budget as Indiana governor).
 
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