AP top25

#26
#26
Burger said:
If they were extremely biased, every team would be tied for #1 because they only get one top 25 set vote. Every coach would be voting for their own players in the AA also if that was the case.
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The All-America committee and the conferences don't allow the coaches to vote for their own players. So that's why you don't see crazy bias there.

The AFCA poll, on the other hand, does not have a recusal requirement. Check the final poll every year (which is the only one that's always been released to the public). You'll find unmistakeable examples of bias every time. Heck, the AFCA had to threaten Spurrier with having his vote permenantly revoked if he didn't stop putting Duke in his preseason poll.
 
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#27
#27
bamawriter said:
The All-America committee and the conferences don't allow the coaches to vote for their own players. So that's why you don't see crazy bias there.

The AFCA poll, on the other hand, does not have a recusal requirement. Check the final poll every year (which is the only one that's always been released to the public). You'll find unmistakeable examples of bias every time. Heck, the AFCA had to threaten Spurrier with having his vote permenantly revoked if he didn't stop putting Duke in his preseason poll.
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Maybe your first paragraph should apply in the polls. I love solving problems. Don't you?
 
#28
#28
Burger said:
Maybe your first paragraph should apply in the polls. I love solving problems. Don't you?
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It wouldn't matter. Even if you prevented a coach from including his team in the poll, there's nothing to stop him from voting another team lower than they deserve if that team might be in the running for one of the playoff spots.
 
#29
#29
bamawriter said:
It wouldn't matter. Even if you prevented a coach from including his team in the poll, there's nothing to stop him from voting another team lower than they deserve if that team might be in the running for one of the playoff spots.
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What would stop this committed from taking payola and voting their own personal school? As humans, we are biased creatures.
 
#30
#30
Burger said:
What would stop this committed from taking payola and voting their own personal school? As humans, we are biased creatures.
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The committee has a recusal policy in place, so they cannot even be in the room when their team is discussed or voted on.

While that doesn't prevent the possibility of intentionally tanking another team, less than half the committee has any personal financial interest in the outcome, as opposed to 100% of the Coaches Poll voters. We could discuss the possibility of illegal inducements, but that is a hypothetical as opposed to the undeniable reality of the bias that exists in the Coaches Poll.
 
#31
#31
bamawriter said:
The committee has a recusal policy in place, so they cannot even be in the room when their team is discussed or voted on.

While that doesn't prevent the possibility of intentionally tanking another team, less than half the committee has any personal financial interest in the outcome, as opposed to 100% of the Coaches Poll voters. We could discuss the possibility of illegal inducements, but that is a hypothetical as opposed to the undeniable reality of the bias that exists in the Coaches Poll.
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Laws don't prevent cheating. Ask the world's strongest men. The cheaters just need incentive to do it hence payola.
 
#32
#32
Burger said:
I'll question their credentials to. Almost everybody on this forum is a lifetime football fan. Insane to me. Football turns into politics here we come. I think the playoffs should be the top four in the coaches poll. The coaches know more about their game than anyone else.

I don't think Condi is a genius because her foreign policy execution was a failure. Whoever said true genius is not recognized until they die is correct, like Vincent Van Gogh.
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Coaches don't have time to watch every game of every team, they're too busy working on their own gameplans and own teams.
 
#34
#34
Burger said:
Laws don't prevent cheating. Ask the world's strongest men. The cheaters just need incentive to do it hence payola.
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So, your stance is that the members of the committee might be induced by the possibility of illicit payments, and could subsequently inject bias into the process, so we'd be better off with the coaches undoubtedly being induced by contractually obligated payments and injecting bias into the process?

I'm gonna have to continue disagreeing with you on this one.
 
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#35
#35
bamawriter said:
So, your stance is that the members of the committee might be induced by the possibility of illicit payments, and could subsequently inject bias into the process, so we'd be better off with the coaches undoubtedly being induced by contractually obligated payments and injecting bias into the process?

I'm gonna have to continue disagreeing with you on this one.
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It's better than unqualified people judging who should be in the playoff. I bet we end up with some head scratchers.
 
#36
#36
Burger said:
It's better than unqualified people judging who should be in the playoff. I bet we end up with some head scratchers.
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And I'll bet the seedings roughly reflect the AP, Coaches, and Harris polls just about every year.
 
#41
#41
Burger said:
Why would you think that personal bias would not affect the committee? These are human beings with alliances.
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I never said there would be no bias. I even acknowledged that a little less than half the members have a financial stake in the outcome (the ADs). And certainly fandom will come into play.

But there is no rational comparison between Condoleezza Rice having grown up an Alabama fan and Nick Saban getting a contractually obligated quarter million dollar bonus for winning the national championship.
 
#42
#42
bamawriter said:
I never said there would be no bias. I even acknowledged that a little less than half the members have a financial stake in the outcome (the ADs). And certainly fandom will come into play.

But there is no rational comparison between Condoleezza Rice having grown up an Alabama fan and Nick Saban getting a contractually obligated quarter million dollar bonus for winning the national championship.
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You have a point, but you know committees are famous for taking bribes ( FIFA, IOC, many more ).
 
#43
#43
Burger said:
You have a point, but you know committees are famous for taking bribes ( FIFA, IOC, many more ).
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Once again, you are relying on hypothetical illegal activity leading to bias to support your case for a process that has always been biased and would unquestionably continue to be.

If a rather extreme hypothetical is all you have to go on, your argument falls apart on take-off.
 
#44
#44
bamawriter said:
Once again, you are relying on hypothetical illegal activity leading to bias to support your case for a process that has always been biased and would unquestionably continue to be.

If a rather extreme hypothetical is all you have to go on, your argument falls apart on take-off.
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It does happen though. Illegal activity happens a lot in sports.
 
#45
#45
Burger said:
It does happen though. Illegal activity happens a lot in sports.
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So what? The committee members have incentive to stay straight: avoiding prison. They may succumb to temptation, but there is at least an incentive to do things the right way.

The coaches not only have no incentive to stay above board, they are incentivized to put their thumbs on the scale whenever they can. And there are no negative consequences.
 
#46
#46
Burger said:
You have a point, but you know committees are famous for taking bribes ( FIFA, IOC, many more ).
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I still haven't seen you give any reasons why coaches would be better qualified to put together an unbiased field. The hypothetical issues you're raising would only be solved by having a computer ranking system determine the playoff teams, and I don't think anyone wants that.
 
#47
#47
bamawriter said:
I never said there would be no bias. I even acknowledged that a little less than half the members have a financial stake in the outcome (the ADs). And certainly fandom will come into play.

But there is no rational comparison between Condoleezza Rice having grown up an Alabama fan and Nick Saban getting a contractually obligated quarter million dollar bonus for winning the national championship.
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No he is right and you realize it. You just refuse to admit it
 
#48
#48
Burger said:
If it was a woman football person, I would not care at all. I don't think race of the person matters if they are qualified. The best doctor in the country Dr. Ben Carson is African American. If we needed someone who knew how to deal with foreign nations, then maybe we can ask her. When it comes to football, she's no better than Vol fans wives.
There are people 10x more qualified to tell us who the best teams are. Do you actually think she knows schemes and what attributes a successful football team? I sure don't.
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Now this is pretty sexist. I'm not a fan of hers but she's a very smart person. She will not take this lightly and will learn what she doesn't know. She'll ask questions and will be a valuable asset.
 
#50
#50
Sin City Vol said:
Now this is pretty sexist. I'm not a fan of hers but she's a very smart person. She will not take this lightly and will learn what she doesn't know. She'll ask questions and will be a valuable asset.
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Like she did when she was a diplomat? She completely failed at that, hence at some problems we're having today.
 
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