AR-15 Builders

#26
#26
davethevol said:
That's what I thought. The moment you come into possession of that barrel without the proper paperwork you are looking at jail time and huge fines. I wonder if you've been set up by the ATF or a snitch for them.
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Well, no. You can still posses it, just has to be mounted on a pistol lower. You can legally buy them all day long, just need to make sure one either has the tax stamp and engraved lower with the proper paperwork on file or that pistol buffer tube.
 
#27
#27
Grand Vol said:
Well, no. You can still posses it, just has to be mounted on a pistol lower. You can legally buy them all day long, just need to make sure one either has the tax stamp and engraved lower with the proper paperwork on file or that pistol buffer tube.
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But if he doesn't have either one and gets caught with it, he's in deep doo, right?
 
#28
#28
davethevol said:
But if he doesn't have either one and gets caught with it, he's in deep doo, right?
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Yep.

Trust us on this InVol, the manufacturer doesn't care what you put that thing on. Once it's out of his hands, there is no liability on him. That's why he put that disclaimer on his site about "all local and federal laws." You need a 16 inch barrel length in order to be legal. Or a pinned and welded 1.5 inch flash suppressor on a 14.5 inch barrel.
 
#29
#29
I'd be contacting that company, canceling the order and getting a refund. No offense, but any manufacturer that won't tell you straight up what you're buying is in a very specific legal zone is not one I'd do business with. Seems like they care more about the sale rather than their customer's needs. Plus, I just did some brief digging and they seem real hesitant to provide specs on said products.

There's far better (and more reputable) manufacturers out there to buy from. I can give you a list if you're interested.
 
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#31
#31
Grand Vol said:
I'd be contacting that company, canceling the order and getting a refund. No offense, but any manufacturer that won't tell you straight up what you're buying is in a very specific legal zone is not one I'd do business with. Seems like they care more about the sale rather than their customer's needs. Plus, I just did some brief digging and they seem real hesitant to provide specs on said products.

There's far better (and more reputable) manufacturers out there to buy from. I can give you a list if you're interested.
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They plainly state on their website that it is my responsibility to make sure it's legal and encourage the party to do their research. It's on me. They don't know what you're putting it on. I could put a pistol stock on it and it would be perfectly legal. I'm going to modify the order to be legal. It's my understanding that I the flash hider counts?
 
#32
#32
Grand Vol said:
Yep.

Trust us on this InVol, the manufacturer doesn't care what you put that thing on. Once it's out of his hands, there is no liability on him. That's why he put that disclaimer on his site about "all local and federal laws." You need a 16 inch barrel length in order to be legal. Or a pinned and welded 1.5 inch flash suppressor on a 14.5 inch barrel.
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That's what I'm going with.
 
#33
#33
InVOLuntary said:
They plainly state on their website that it is my responsibility to make sure it's legal and encourage the party to do their research. It's on me. They don't know what you're putting it on. I could put a pistol stock on it and it would be perfectly legal. I'm going to modify the order to be legal. It's my understanding that I the flash hider counts?
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No, unless it's pinned and welded, it doesn't count.
 
#34
#34
Honestly, my advice stands. There is nothing more on the stats of that upper save the 4150 steel. No gas port size (I've seen reports of them being overgassed), no testing (either MPI or HPT) and allegedly "hardened." I can tell you right now, that "hardened" is not a specific term used in AR barrels without some specific process behind it like cryo treatment, which is not specified and very well would be had it been done (along with doubling the price).

Yeah, he's been in business for a while and has some great reviews on his site. But at the same time, there are a lot of gaps in the items he has. Like who manufacturers his barrels? That's important. Gas port size is another. Who does the drilling and size? And notice anything odd about the reviews? Not a one of them below five stars. That should be a huge red flag since nobody is happy 100% of the time. I mean, nobody gave it four stars for a little detail?

It's up to you, but I'd go with, again, a more known and reputable manufacturer.
 
#36
#36
Grand Vol said:
Honestly, my advice stands. There is nothing more on the stats of that upper save the 4150 steel. No gas port size (I've seen reports of them being overgassed), no testing (either MPI or HPT) and allegedly "hardened." I can tell you right now, that "hardened" is not a specific term used in AR barrels without some specific process behind it like cryo treatment, which is not specified and very well would be had it been done (along with doubling the price).

Yeah, he's been in business for a while and has some great reviews on his site. But at the same time, there are a lot of gaps in the items he has. Like who manufacturers his barrels? That's important. Gas port size is another. Who does the drilling and size? And notice anything odd about the reviews? Not a one of them below five stars. That should be a huge red flag since nobody is happy 100% of the time. I mean, nobody gave it four stars for a little detail?

It's up to you, but I'd go with, again, a more known and reputable manufacturer.
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Lesson learn I guess, Grand. He told me he already assembled and test fired it. He said he would work with me but he couldn't take the assembled unit back. He agreed to install another barrel for me at no charge. So I'm getting a 16" Barrel with the removable flash hider installed on the receiver with the quad rails. In the box I'll also have the 10.5" barrel for a later pistol build. School of hard knocks. :crazy:
 
#37
#37
InVOLuntary said:
Lesson learn I guess, Grand. He told me he already assembled and test fired it. He said he would work with me but he couldn't take the assembled unit back. He agreed to install another barrel for me at no charge. So I'm getting a 16" Barrel with the removable flash hider installed on the receiver with the quad rails. In the box I'll also have the 10.5" barrel for a later pistol build. School of hard knocks. :crazy:
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You'll still need to get the parts for the pistol build ASAP. Again, if you get caught without having those parts or without having the tax stamp from the ATF you will serve time in jail and pay thousands of dollars in fines. The ATF doesn't play around with that stuff.
 
#38
#38
davethevol said:
You'll still need to get the parts for the pistol build ASAP. Again, if you get caught without having those parts or without having the tax stamp from the ATF you will serve time in jail and pay thousands of dollars in fines. The ATF doesn't play around with that stuff.
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I was told by a friend of mine that I have been consulting with since this that the barrel was not a problem unless it was on a gun. He did say that he would order the tube and spring anyway so I could make it up if I wanted to. Again, just learning but he should know, he has his ffl.
 
#39
#39
InVOLuntary said:
I was told by a friend of mine that I have been consulting with since this that the barrel was not a problem unless it was on a gun. He did say that he would order the tube and spring anyway so I could make it up if I wanted to. Again, just learning but he should know, he has his ffl.
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Hmm, I don't think he's right. With the ATF there isn't any wiggle room. It's not something you want to take a chance with. There are all sorts of horror stories out there about someone that thought they knew the law and turned out they were wrong with regards to NFA and Class 3 firearms and then ended up going to jail.
 
#40
#40
davethevol said:
Hmm, I don't think he's right. With the ATF there isn't any wiggle room. It's not something you want to take a chance with. There are all sorts of horror stories out there about someone that thought they knew the law and turned out they were wrong with regards to NFA and Class 3 firearms and then ended up going to jail.
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He made some legal mumbo jumbo about intent. I've got a buddy that's a county sheriff captain that's a liaison to the atf. I'll ask him.
 
#41
#41
InVOLuntary said:
He made some legal mumbo jumbo about intent. I've got a buddy that's a county sheriff captain that's a liaison to the atf. I'll ask him.
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Constructive Intent.

Basically that means if you have said under 16 inch upper without said pistol lower, it's "intent" to mount said upper on a rifle lower creating an SBR whether you do or not.

It's kind of like having the blueprints and alarm codes to a bank vault. Try convincing the cops you aren't planning on robbing it and just have them around for fun. The major difference being in the case of a short upper, the ATF can charge you with constructive intent to build an SBR without their knowledge.
 
#42
#42
Grand Vol said:
Constructive Intent.

Basically that means if you have said under 16 inch upper without said pistol lower, it's "intent" to mount said upper on a rifle lower creating an SBR whether you do or not.

It's kind of like having the blueprints and alarm codes to a bank vault. Try convincing the cops you aren't planning on robbing it and just have them around for fun. The major difference being in the case of a short upper, the ATF can charge you with constructive intent to build an SBR without their knowledge.
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Thanks to both you and Dave for your input. I think to avoid any chance, I'll just build a pistol. Gun show here in a week and I've been told lowers are everywhere. I can just buy the pistol backend.

My sheriff buddy is checking with his atf colleague to get his opinion. I'll let you guys know what I find out.

Do y'all have experience with 80% lowers? Apparently they are perfectly legal to buy and own.
 
#43
#43
InVOLuntary said:
Thanks to both you and Dave for your input. I think to avoid any chance, I'll just build a pistol. Gun show here in a week and I've been told lowers are everywhere. I can just buy the pistol backend.

My sheriff buddy is checking with his atf colleague to get his opinion. I'll let you guys know what I find out.

Do y'all have experience with 80% lowers? Apparently they are perfectly legal to buy and own.
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Assuming you're talking about a lower that hasn't been completely milled yet. Yes they are legal to purchase and own without an FFL transfer. However, you would need to find someone that was willing and capable to finish the job. Just my opinion, but I would recommend one that is already finished and ready to go.

I've seen those 80% lowers sold as $80 paper weights.
 
#44
#44
I could finish the lower myself. They make templates for the milling. I have the tools and expertise to do the work. I think I'll go with a finished lower though given the price is about the same.
 
#45
#45
InVOLuntary said:
I could finish the lower myself. They make templates for the milling. I have the tools and expertise to do the work. I think I'll go with a finished lower though given the price is about the same.
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Keep an eye out for blemished lowers. Sometimes you can them on sale for a really good price.
 
#48
#48
That's why I'm doing a pistol with the short barrel. It's kind of stupid really. Take the stock off and it's a pistol.
 
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#49
#49
InVOLuntary said:
Where do you look? Gun shows? Also, where's a good place on line for parts?
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I haven't been to a gun show in a few years since the last time I went people were asking crazy prices. $100 for a brick of 22lr.. Seriously?

I got mine from palmetto state armory last year for 129 completed and free shipping. The only blemish was one of the serial numbers wasn't as deep as the others. I was checking on PSA, cheaper than dirt, and a few others I can't remember. Just gotta look around.
 
#50
#50
TNsnyper20 said:
I haven't been to a gun show in a few years since the last time I went people were asking crazy prices. $100 for a brick of 22lr.. Seriously?

I got mine from palmetto state armory last year for 129 completed and free shipping. The only blemish was one of the serial numbers wasn't as deep as the others. I was checking on PSA, cheaper than dirt, and a few others I can't remember. Just gotta look around.
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I've been looking at PSA. I like their stuff. Just have to use a ffl local. I found a Kansas based site that has some really cheap, $60 for an empty lower. I've been told people walk around the gun show with lowers.
 
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