Are the Unions Killing the American Car Industry?

#51
#51
dan4vols said:
Unions will always have their place, It's cyclical. Working folks vs white collar...theres a need for both and at one time or another each has the upper hand. When one gets an upper hand longer the other gets to swing for the fence, its the american way.
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I can buy that, but now is the time for unions to be taken to the edge of death so that american industry can reamin somewhat compet., you know
 
#52
#52
There comes a time. You won't have to be told when it is, that it will be required of you to step up and be solid for America. You'll know when the call comes because you are an American. You'll stand up and say ''where do you need me'' or ''I'm here, where ya want me''. Selflessness rather than selfishness....It ain't just about you, and if this nation ever gets that.......oh dayummm look out world economy.
 
#54
#54
therealUT said:
I guess this could be proclaimed as true if one ignores the financial facts of the matter. That, of course, would take some actual effort and independent research into the matter, though.

The comparison of the Debt to Equity Ratio's alone, between the Big 3 and the profiting imports, are quite shocking. If you check the specifics of the held long term debt for the Big 3...pensions. Oops.
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Excellent answer therealUT. I saw the other day where the reason pay was so high that half of the pay $75.00 per hour went to retired employees, where they have 300 plus thousand and retirement foreign car makers is basically a non-issue currently
where they are compensated $40.00 per hour, $25.00 going to salary).Having worked at Nissan years ago, you earn your money.Curently instead of laying people off they are offering buy outs up to $125,000. to anyone that would like to leave.I do recall when I was hired they said 20,000 applications were on file.
 
#56
#56
The union packages place an initial cost of a car at approximately $2800 before production even begins. Which means you lose $2800 for even considering a new car. The layoff package is astronomical. It pays out at about 90% of pay. Paid time off is excessive. I worked briefly for a tier 1 supplier and walked in the door with over 4 weeks off. Vacation time and scheduled paid holidays. Plus, if you're down a week at Christmas or whenever, it is PTO for the entire downtime. Wages are very high. I saw where a couple up north were automotive employees. Both were production workers. No formal training or education. The husband attached bumpers. They each cleared 100K a year. But, lawyers and such straight out of school, with the effort and money they put in usally average 75-90K starting. Not to mention all the restrictions management has on dealing directly with employees. That is also why you see alot of foreign car makers setting up shop in the south. South Carolina, Georgia, and Bama are all right to work states, and have attracted virtually all major foreign car makers. Volvo, Kia, Mercedes, BMW to name a few.
 
#61
#61
allvol123 said:
You trying to point out how little the UAW does for their pay? We are all over that man.
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I don't know all the inner workings of the UAW, so I'm not gonna speculate on that. However, it does speak volumes that most of the foreign car makers are having some/all of the cars made in the south.

Hint to Big Three: Move down south. You can cut your labor costs big time. The cost of living is much less down here, and money goes a longer way in the south.
 
#62
#62
nickknx865 said:
Hint to Big Three: Move down south. You can cut your labor costs big time. The cost of living is much less down here, and money goes a longer way in the south.
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You mean Mexico? :p

But seriously, I'm not sure I could deal with more Ohioans and Michiganers moving down here and bringing their high taxes and arrogance down here while they jack up the price of land at the sametime...
 
#63
#63
It's strange that there isn't at least on person that is siding with the UAW in this thread. Surely there is someone on VN that has a connection the UAW.

I'd like to hear a counter to all the arguements made against the UAW in this thread.
 
#64
#64
UT IE 95 said:
It's strange that there isn't at least on person that is siding with the UAW in this thread. Surely there is someone on VN that has a connection the UAW.

I'd like to hear a counter to all the arguements made against the UAW in this thread.
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tree green spent a huge amount of bandwidth arguing this with me a few weeks ago.

As expected from most arguments with me, he had his ass handed to him.:)
 
#65
#65
BigPapaVol said:
tree green spent a huge amount of bandwidth arguing this with me a few weeks ago.

As expected from most arguments with me, he had his ass handed to him.:)
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Was it just senseless ranting, or are there any defensible arguments for keeping the UAW in place as it exists today?
 
#66
#66
UT IE 95 said:
Was it just senseless ranting, or are there any defensible arguments for keeping the UAW in place as it exists today?
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he made the typical whiny liberal argument about the "man" destroying the companies and management decision making being the problem, while extolling the virtues of protecting the little guy from the "man." Very trite emotional drivel steeped in nothing.
 
#67
#67
I don't know of any defensible argument in keeping any American labor union in place, especially the UAW.
 
#68
#68
I'm probably more liberal than some on here, and I can't find a single defensible point for keeping the UAW around in today's society. There was a need for unions at one point, but that time has come and gone.
 
#69
#69
BigPapaVol said:
he made the typical whiny liberal argument about the "man" destroying the companies and management decision making being the problem, while extolling the virtues of protecting the little guy from the "man." Very trite emotional drivel steeped in nothing.
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MG1968 said:
I don't know of any defensible argument in keeping any American labor union in place, especially the UAW.
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I'm all for "sticking it to the man". But looking at the UAW it is the union sticking it to the little guy. There are plenty of labor laws and government regulations in place to keep "the man" in check.

I'm just looking for anyone to lay out a defensible argument for keeping the UAW as it is today. The fact it can't be found says everything.
 
#70
#70
hey, how much does it cost to run an 18 hole, championship caliber golf course and club?

Black Lake Golf Club

Owned and operated by the United Auto Workers union, Black Lake is a public course that provides UAW members and retirees substantial discounts from the regular greens fees. But even at regular rates of up to $95 per round, Black Lake is worth the price. Tee time reservations are accepted up to 14 days in advance for UAW members, and three days in advance for public play.
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Membership Information - Black Lake Golf Club
 
#71
#71
sjernigan88 said:
with all of this talk of a bailout of the big three american made automobiles the question i ask you is.... Is it the unions fault. Intially the unions were really good groups that really protected the workers but now it seems the have these businesses in a stranglehold and demand compensation that just does not make sense for the company. I know the imports are down too but the difference is that they can hang on better and one of the main reason is cheaper labor. In my area there are 2 nissan plants within about 40 miles and i must ell you that the workers work very hard but they are paid well. I just think that the abuse of union power is killing the american brand. Thoughts?
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yes
 
#72
#72
Thanks, it just drives me nut, we all know it does not make sense and our elected offic. are going to bail them out anyways with the unions still in place and nothing is really going to change and Toyota, Nissan, Honda, VW, are still going to kick our butts. Our system of Govt just pays no attention to the people anymore and it just befuzzles me that my tax rate will be going up to bail out people like homeowners who made a bad decision and bit off more than they could chew, banks who loaned the money to them, and fat cat American Auto Companys that can't make a good product or use good material because they are paying on average $25 more per hour than everyone else(including benifits).
 
#73
#73
FOXNews.com - Autoworkers Union Keeps $6 Million Golf Course for Members at $33 Million Lakeside Retreat - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

Black Lake club and retreat, which are among the union's biggest fixed assets, have lost $23 million in the past five years alone, a heavy albatross around the union's neck as it tries to manage a multibillion-dollar pension plan crisis.
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I'm willing to bet that the CEO's private jet flights to appear before Congress didn't cost any where near 23 million bucks.
 
#74
#74
FOXNews.com - Autoworkers Union Keeps $6 Million Golf Course for Members at $33 Million Lakeside Retreat - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

Black Lake club and retreat, which are among the union's biggest fixed assets, have lost $23 million in the past five years alone, a heavy albatross around the union's neck as it tries to manage a multibillion-dollar pension plan crisis.
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I'm willing to bet that the CEO's private jet flights to appear before Congress didn't cost any where near 23 million bucks.
 
#75
#75
MG1968 said:
FOXNews.com - Autoworkers Union Keeps $6 Million Golf Course for Members at $33 Million Lakeside Retreat - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News



I'm willing to bet that the CEO's private jet flights to appear before Congress didn't cost any where near 23 million bucks.
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You are correct. The Gulfstream jet alone is about $50 million. Add a few thousand $$$$ per hour operational costs to that.

http://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft-for-sale/GULFSTREAM-G550/2008-GULFSTREAM-G550/1147688.htm?guid=E2849EDF9EA3453F9BAB47F465AAB65D
 
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