Are there any Cuonzo supporters left?

#76
#76
Insunseri said:
Serious question. Simply state your name and your case. It seems that the "fire ccm" sentiment is unanimous and ubiquitous, so I'd honestly like to hear some reasons to keep him (if there are any).

And, I'm not sure the whole "we can't keep firing our coaches so quickly" thing is really valid in this case, but have it...
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He should go and I've held out about as long as I can. I'll always support whomever is the coach for as long as possible. But Cuonzo is a dead man walking right now. There's no other way to put it. Winning the SECT is about all that would impress me now. I love all the talk about how UT can lose a few and still be NCAAT bound. That is a crock of horse ****. I don't care if we beat ACC leading Virginia. We've lost twice to a team we should've beaten twice. This makes me sick to my gut.
 
#79
#79
HBCButch said:
He should go and I've held out about as long as I can. I'll always support whomever is the coach for as long as possible. But Cuonzo is a dead man walking right now. There's no other way to put it. Winning the SECT is about all that would impress me now. I love all the talk about how UT can lose a few and still be NCAAT bound. That is a crock of horse ****. I don't care if we beat ACC leading Virginia. We've lost twice to a team we should've beaten twice. This makes me sick to my gut.
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And we lost slowly walking up the court like in a daze, never changing tactics until it was too late. Stupid, stupid, stupid. But he is a good person while being a poor coach even if he does mumble.
 
#80
#80
I want to bump this just to show how capricious some people on here are. Just 3 weeks ago, I literally couldn't find a single ccm supporter. Now, the "keep cuonzo" threads are all the rage.
 
#81
#81
Insunseri said:
I want to bump this just to show how capricious some people on here are. Just 3 weeks ago, I literally couldn't find a single ccm supporter. Now, the "keep cuonzo" threads are all the rage.
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Did Martin not look like a dead man walking a couple weeks ago? Does he not look good right now?
 
#82
#82
Chris4Vols22 said:
Did Martin not look like a dead man walking a couple weeks ago? Does he not look good right now?
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I just don't understand how people can change their minds so quickly. Barring a couple flashes in the pan, Martin has looked like a dead man walking all season. a hot streak at the end apparently solves all your problems. I'm ok with him staying around for another year. I want this team in the tourney first and foremost, so it would be hard to fire him assuming that happens on top of a 20-win season. But in the long run, I don't think he's the guy. Again, it's just the fickleness that gets me
 
#83
#83
Insunseri said:
I just don't understand how people can change their minds so quickly. Barring a couple flashes in the pan, Martin has looked like a dead man walking all season. a hot streak at the end apparently solves all your problems. I'm ok with him staying around for another year. I want this team in the tourney first and foremost, so it would be hard to fire him assuming that happens on top of a 20-win season. But in the long run, I don't think he's the guy. Again, it's just the fickleness that gets me
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I still hope he gets fired after the season regardless of how the season ends. I don't believe he is the long term answer. Simply making the tourney for CCM should not be the sole reason for keeping him. I hope Hart realizes this but I have my doubts.
 
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#84
#84
I wouldn't expect you or any other fire Martin person to understand this, but with the results, Martin truly objectively has earned his money. When we were looking bad a couple weeks ago, it looked like we were on the verge of an epic breakdown, and if we had rolled over and tanked, that would have been the very first instance of Martin putting his job in jeopardy.

Neither UT nor most other schools are going to fire their young coach when he's getting 20 wins a season. For Martin being in a 5-year contract, averaging at least >19.5 wins per season through the first 3 is plenty to keep him off the plank, especially if we make the tournament this year.

While this is a legit observation, people with your opinion tend to dwell in Martin's shortcomings. Again, that's completely valid, but it seems like these people fail to both recognize and acknowledge the steady improvement after the first season. I know you don't understand or agree, but this is how it is. We should definitely consider Martin's weaknesses, but you also have to look at the end results. Even though we didn't make the tournament the first two seasons, we have steadily trended upwards. Objectively, despite Martin's flashes of incompetence, the trend of improvement leads one to believe he has the potential to continue improving.

If 20 wins and no tourney berth is truly Martin's ceiling, he won't receive any extensions or raises. The fact is that he's ok for now.

I know you disagree, no need to respond. Agree to disagree :hi:
 
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#85
#85
yoyoyoyo said:
I still hope he gets fired after the season regardless of how the season ends. I don't believe he is the long term answer. Simply making the tourney for CCM should not be the sole reason for keeping him. I hope Hart realizes this but I have my doubts.
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Hart will look for any reason to retain him not the reverse.
 
#86
#86
Chris4Vols22 said:
I wouldn't expect you or any other fire Martin person to understand this, but with the results, Martin truly objectively has earned his money. When we were looking bad a couple weeks ago, it looked like we were on the verge of an epic breakdown, and if we had rolled over and tanked, that would have been the very first instance of Martin putting his job in jeopardy.

Neither UT nor most other schools are going to fire their young coach when he's getting 20 wins a season. For Martin being in a 5-year contract, averaging at least >19.5 wins per season through the first 3 is plenty to keep him off the plank, especially if we make the tournament this year.

While this is a legit observation, people with your opinion tend to dwell in Martin's shortcomings. Again, that's completely valid, but it seems like these people fail to both recognize and acknowledge the steady improvement after the first season. I know you don't understand or agree, but this is how it is. We should definitely consider Martin's weaknesses, but you also have to look at the end results. Even though we didn't make the tournament the first two seasons, we have steadily trended upwards. Objectively, despite Martin's flashes of incompetence, the trend of improvement leads one to believe he has the potential to continue improving.

If 20 wins and no tourney berth is truly Martin's ceiling, he won't receive any extensions or raises. The fact is that he's ok for now.

I know you disagree, no need to respond. Agree to disagree :hi:
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You make many good points. I agree with a lot you say, but are you not concerned about recruiting? I think he takes on too many projects. My biggest concern with Martin is recruiting.
 
#87
#87
vols 30 said:
You make many good points. I agree with a lot you say, but are you not concerned about recruiting? I think he takes on too many projects. My biggest concern with Martin is recruiting.
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Thank you :hi:

Yes, I am concerned. Maybe not as much as some. Recruiting has not been ideal, but it hasn't been bad enough to write it off. On this front, next season will be telling, obviously. I really don't know what will happen. I like to think we will at least have top half of SEC talent. However, I don't see that as a given, nor do I see a reason to think we won't. Like I said, I really don't know lol.
 
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#88
#88
Insunseri said:
I just don't understand how people can change their minds so quickly. Barring a couple flashes in the pan, Martin has looked like a dead man walking all season. a hot streak at the end apparently solves all your problems. I'm ok with him staying around for another year. I want this team in the tourney first and foremost, so it would be hard to fire him assuming that happens on top of a 20-win season. But in the long run, I don't think he's the guy. Again, it's just the fickleness that gets me
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It does not matter if he is the right man or not 1 win and we are in and then he earned a year, two weeks ago I think he told his wife to start packing after yesterday he told her to unpack. :)
 
#90
#90
vols 30 said:
You make many good points. I agree with a lot you say, but are you not concerned about recruiting? I think he takes on too many projects. My biggest concern with Martin is recruiting.
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Maybe he can fill the schedule with a few more Tusculums and he can win twenty games next year.
 
#91
#91
vols 30 said:
You make many good points. I agree with a lot you say, but are you not concerned about recruiting? I think he takes on too many projects. My biggest concern with Martin is recruiting.
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In the modern era of one and done and straight to pros, all but the most elite programs take on projects. Oklahoma, Iowa State, Creighton, Wichita State, are loaded with projects that have developed and now their teams are locks. Unless you are Duke or Kansas, etc, for every Stokes you get an Edwards, and for every Hubbs a Chievous. There's just not enough supply of blue chips to go around anymore.
 
#92
#92
Insunseri said:
I just don't understand how people can change their minds so quickly. Barring a couple flashes in the pan, Martin has looked like a dead man walking all season. a hot streak at the end apparently solves all your problems. I'm ok with him staying around for another year. I want this team in the tourney first and foremost, so it would be hard to fire him assuming that happens on top of a 20-win season. But in the long run, I don't think he's the guy. Again, it's just the fickleness that gets me
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You're talking to a fanbase that seems to have a decent size portion that actually believes Bruce Pearl is the only coach that can be successful here. So you shouldn't be surprised there's not a lot of consistency and/or logic here.

And before anyone jumps on it, I'm not even remotely defending Martin here, I mean there have been people here who have stated if Martin is fired/leaves, it HAS to be Bruce Pearl who is hired and if we don't, we'll suck for 20 years, and that's just stupid.
 
#93
#93
VolsSportsFan said:
You're talking to a fanbase that seems to have a decent size portion that actually believes Bruce Pearl is the only coach that can be successful here. So you shouldn't be surprised there's not a lot of consistency and/or logic here.

And before anyone jumps on it, I'm not even remotely defending Martin here, I mean there have been people here who have stated if Martin is fired/leaves, it HAS to be Bruce Pearl who is hired and if we don't, we'll suck for 20 years, and that's just stupid.
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I think it's the "bird in hand" philosophy. I think many think if Martin is fired, right or wrong, they don't have the confidence that the AD will hire any coach with a track record if winning. Whether you like Pearl or nit, he's a known commodity.
 
#94
#94
Martin is not the guy for us in the long term. Sneaking in to the tournament doesn't change that for me.
 
#96
#96
InVOLuntary said:
I think it's the "bird in hand" philosophy. I think many think if Martin is fired, right or wrong, they don't have the confidence that the AD will hire any coach with a track record if winning. Whether you like Pearl or nit, he's a known commodity.
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Oh I get it, and I don't necessarily disagree with the logic, but some take it way too far.
 
#98
#98
Chris4Vols22 said:
I wouldn't expect you or any other fire Martin person to understand this, but with the results, Martin truly objectively has earned his money. When we were looking bad a couple weeks ago, it looked like we were on the verge of an epic breakdown, and if we had rolled over and tanked, that would have been the very first instance of Martin putting his job in jeopardy.

Neither UT nor most other schools are going to fire their young coach when he's getting 20 wins a season. For Martin being in a 5-year contract, averaging at least >19.5 wins per season through the first 3 is plenty to keep him off the plank, especially if we make the tournament this year.

While this is a legit observation, people with your opinion tend to dwell in Martin's shortcomings. Again, that's completely valid, but it seems like these people fail to both recognize and acknowledge the steady improvement after the first season. I know you don't understand or agree, but this is how it is. We should definitely consider Martin's weaknesses, but you also have to look at the end results. Even though we didn't make the tournament the first two seasons, we have steadily trended upwards. Objectively, despite Martin's flashes of incompetence, the trend of improvement leads one to believe he has the potential to continue improving.

If 20 wins and no tourney berth is truly Martin's ceiling, he won't receive any extensions or raises. The fact is that he's ok for now.

I know you disagree, no need to respond. Agree to disagree :hi:
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Not wanting to argue like some on here and we disagree but I will elaborate a bit.

This year we have a senior team with the exact same record 20-11 (11-7) as last year to date. With a veteran group he has coached for 3 years this is very disappointing and is an indication of his lack of coaching ability. This years team should not have lost more than 6 games in this weak league, out of conference schedule and our experience. I don't see next years team getting near the tournament. This appears to be his ceiling based on his track record. I would like CBP back but that has nothing to do with my opinion of CCM. There are plenty of capable coaches out there that can win at UT.
 
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#99
#99
yoyoyoyo said:
Not wanting to argue like some on here and we disagree but I will elaborate a bit.

This year we have a senior team with the exact same record 20-11 (11-7) as last year to date. With a veteran group he has coached for 3 years this is very disappointing and is an indication of his lack of coaching ability. This years team should not have lost more than 6 games in this weak league, out of conference schedule and our experience. I don't see next years team getting near the tournament. This appears to be his ceiling based on his track record. I would like CBP back but that has nothing to do with my opinion of CCM. There are plenty of capable coaches out there that can win at UT.
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Billy Donovan had a slightly above .500 win percentage his first 3 years at Florida. I'm not saying Martin is Donovan, I'm just saying you don't know what a coach will become. I don't think we can safely say this is martin's ceiling when he is a young coach like he is now.
 
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#100
#100
I will get burned for this, but I still support cuonzo. He has us in the tournament as of now and he's our coach. When the people that get paid to decide these things make a change, I will support him too. Until then cuonzo has my full support. Go vols
 
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