Are we approaching the defining moment in CJH's tenure at UT?

[HiltonHeadVol]

Now I know that there will be push-back on this topic. But can we just ask the question that is sitting out there. I didn't really mean to sound too dramatic with this thread......but for some time I've said that CJH will have to re-invent/re-shape his offense as smart defensive coaches adapt to his unique style. Last year made I was mildly concerned with offensive drop-off, but this year it seems clear that Coach is struggling to adjust his system to continue and remain productive. 2024 in CJH's professional life has been unique and challenging obviously.
But is he evolving as he must, or is he a bit lost? THIS is the defining question regarding not only his tenure at UT but his long term coaching legacy.
I suspect the loss of Golesh was a much bigger set-back than most realize. There are holes on this team that are chronic problems at UT. Offensive line recruiting and development have been suspect for many years (at least in my view). Talent in the defensive backfield and at LB has either been thin or not developed. Penalties are problematic and we cannot currently "outscore our mistakes". Play calling at least superficially appears predictable and therefore it must accept some responsibility for our repetitive two-quarter scoring lapses.

So I eagerly await input from those on this forum who understand football far better than I. Some might suggest this team has produced beyond expectations. I am proud of this team at 8-2 but there are some troubling signs. Our identity, Coach's adaptability, and player development have been difficult this year and yet I think in many ways some would call 2024 one of Huep's best, despite the things listed above. I've seen suggestions that all the Huepel-esque style offenses are not producing as before. If so, why? Is our coach evolving as he must? Let me say that I really like Coach Huep and his character. I think he is a good man and I'm pulling for him big-time. But I am concerned. OK, I'll hang up and listen.

 

[GetYouSomeofThat]

Now I know that there will be push-back on this topic. But can we just ask the question that is sitting out there. I didn't really mean to sound too dramatic with this thread......but for some time I've said that CJH will have to re-invent/re-shape his offense as smart defensive coaches adapt to his unique style. Last year made I was mildly concerned with offensive drop-off, but this year it seems clear that Coach is struggling to adjust his system to continue and remain productive. 2024 in CJH's professional life has been unique and challenging obviously.
But is he evolving as he must, or is he a bit lost? THIS is the defining question regarding not only his tenure at UT but his long term coaching legacy.
I suspect the loss of Golesh was a much bigger set-back than most realize. There are holes on this team that are chronic problems at UT. Offensive line recruiting and development have been suspect for many years (at least in my view). Talent in the defensive backfield and at LB has either been thin or not developed. Penalties are problematic and we cannot currently "outscore our mistakes". Play calling at least superficially appears predictable and therefore it must accept some responsibility for our repetitive two-quarter scoring lapses.

So I eagerly await input from those on this forum who understand football far better than I. Some might suggest this team has produced beyond expectations. I am proud of this team at 8-2 but there are some troubling signs. Our identity, Coach's adaptability, and player development have been difficult this year and yet I think in many ways some would call 2024 one of Huep's best, despite the things listed above. I've seen suggestions that all the Huepel-esque style offenses are not producing as before. If so, why? Is our coach evolving as he must? Let me say that I really like Coach Huep and his character. I think he is a good man and I'm pulling for him big-time. But I am concerned. OK, I'll hang up and listen.

No.

 

[Tnphil]

2 things will determine the success at Major programs.....Recruiting and playoffs. Bowl games not associated with the playoffs are IMO no more than the NIT in basketball. It just depends on how the schools and fans view what success is.

 

[Oldvoldad]

2 things will determine the success at Major programs.....Recruiting and playoffs. Bowl games not associated with the playoffs are IMO no more than the NIT in basketball. It just depends on how the schools and fans view what success is.

Agree. For SEC coaches, making the playoffs will be equivalent to making the bball tourney. If you don't make it, then you are on shaky ground.

 

[onevol74]

I agree with OP on the impact of losing Golesh. Our offense productivity has been completely different since he left. And I am not convinced that Heupel knows how to succeed with the slow down game as of yet. But he is relatively young in his position and should be able to grow with experience . I do expect next year to be revealing with the losses in the OL and DL.

 

[IndianaVol]

Yes, I think CJH is at a pivotal time in his tenure. Then again, any and every coach seems to be at this same point around year 3 or 4.

Long gone are the days of coaches being allowed 5 plus to build a program with medium success. These days if you aren't winning championships in year 3, you are done at most places that value football.

It's a sad reflection of the expectations of fans today.

 

[bpalmer28]

I don't really believe in the idea that there's a singular defining moment, but to reach our goals this year we need to show the committee that we can move the ball through the air. I've said it a few times today already, but I just do not think more of the same is going to change anyone's mind about Tennessee. We need to win the "undecided" votes by putting a good passing game on display the next two weeks. Otherwise, we'll just be hoping teams around us in the rankings lose. I'd rather impose our will on the rankings than just keep trucking along and hope for the best.

I also don't buy into the idea that our offense left when Golesh left. He was a good OC, but USF has scored less than 17 points in 5 games this season - including 7 against Navy, 3 against Memphis, and 10 against Tulane. They'd be scoring more points than that if he were the offensive wizard that people make him out to be.

 

[onevol74]

I don't really believe in the idea that there's a singular defining moment, but to reach our goals this year we need to show the committee that we can move the ball through the air. I've said it a few times today already, but I just do not think more of the same is going to change anyone's mind about Tennessee. We need to win the "undecided" votes by putting a good passing game on display the next two weeks. Otherwise, we'll just be hoping teams around us in the rankings lose. I'd rather impose our will on the rankings than just keep trucking along and hope for the best.

I also don't buy into the idea that our offense left when Golesh left. He was a good OC, but USF has scored less than 17 points in 5 games this season - including 7 against Navy, 3 against Memphis, and 10 against Tulane. They'd be scoring more points than that if he were the offensive wizard that people make him out to be.

There are numerous examples of where good, or great, coordinators are not head coaching material. Look at OU.

 

[DaddyChad]

Can we please get one thread for all the BS about the offense?

 

[RanMac]

I think we all would have been happy at 10-2 at the beginning of the year. I thought losing to either GA or Bama or both. Beating Bama, I allowed myself to think 11-1 and hosting a home game in the playoff's. The Arkansas game was our trap game. They have been for years. We lost it and it makes the path to the playoff a bit tougher but still doable with help. We have to win out, impressively and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[Golfprovol]

I agree with OP on the impact of losing Golesh. Our offense productivity has been completely different since he left. And I am not convinced that Heupel knows how to succeed with the slow down game as of yet. But he is relatively young in his position and should be able to grow with experience . I do expect next year to be revealing with the losses in the OL and DL.

Jesus dude! Golesh never had a redshirt freshman QB. The offense is working the same, the players are not the same. Nico simply doesn't see the field like Hendon did.

Goleah also had Tillman and Hyatt to throw the ball to, we don't have anyone with that kind of skill.

After the last 20 years, you have the balls to sit behind a keyboard and bitch that we are "only" gonna win 10 games this year.......SMH

 

[theFallGuy]

the amount of people that think Golesh was the magic piece in our offense is funny. He was literally an OC with Huepel for ONE year before coming here at UCF. It was also the first year he even held the position as OC. Look at Heupel's coaching history as far as offense goes.

Not saying it wasn't a loss when he left, but pretty sure Huepel can continue on without him.

 

[Golfprovol]

Now I know that there will be push-back on this topic. But can we just ask the question that is sitting out there. I didn't really mean to sound too dramatic with this thread......but for some time I've said that CJH will have to re-invent/re-shape his offense as smart defensive coaches adapt to his unique style. Last year made I was mildly concerned with offensive drop-off, but this year it seems clear that Coach is struggling to adjust his system to continue and remain productive. 2024 in CJH's professional life has been unique and challenging obviously.
But is he evolving as he must, or is he a bit lost? THIS is the defining question regarding not only his tenure at UT but his long term coaching legacy.
I suspect the loss of Golesh was a much bigger set-back than most realize. There are holes on this team that are chronic problems at UT. Offensive line recruiting and development have been suspect for many years (at least in my view). Talent in the defensive backfield and at LB has either been thin or not developed. Penalties are problematic and we cannot currently "outscore our mistakes". Play calling at least superficially appears predictable and therefore it must accept some responsibility for our repetitive two-quarter scoring lapses.

So I eagerly await input from those on this forum who understand football far better than I. Some might suggest this team has produced beyond expectations. I am proud of this team at 8-2 but there are some troubling signs. Our identity, Coach's adaptability, and player development have been difficult this year and yet I think in many ways some would call 2024 one of Huep's best, despite the things listed above. I've seen suggestions that all the Huepel-esque style offenses are not producing as before. If so, why? Is our coach evolving as he must? Let me say that I really like Coach Huep and his character. I think he is a good man and I'm pulling for him big-time. But I am concerned. OK, I'll hang up and listen.

Did Fulmer ever evolve? Nope! It totally sounds like you are saying CJH has to evolve or get fired. If that is your idea, that is the most entitled take on UT football that I have ever heard.

Spend 20 years wondering in the woods sucking and barely making bowl games to #11 in the polls, a good shot at the playoffs, and 9-11 wins per season but that isn't good enough.

 

[theFallGuy]

Jesus dude! Golesh never had a redshirt freshman QB. The offense is working the same, the players are not the same. Nico simply doesn't see the field like Hendon did.

Goleah also had Tillman and Hyatt to throw the ball to, we don't have anyone with that kind of skill.

After the last 20 years, you have the balls to sit behind a keyboard and bitch that we are "only" gonna win 10 ga.es this year.......SMH

100% here.

 

[Mid Tenn Vol]

Coach has done some great things here, but ultimately until he finds a way to beat Georgia We are not an elite team. Kirby has taken over as the SEC‘s king with the retirement of Nick Saban. I believe he needs to make some changes this off-season and is he willing to part ways with his friends or buddies that he’s coached with for years? They say he calls the plays , but there has been a definite drop off in the last two seasons, and I don’t know if it’s him or the offensive coordinator, he’s an offensive guy and the offense has been disappointing this year other than I feel like we’ve ran the ball well and we’ve beat up on inferior opponents. I also think to some extent his teams are undisciplined, at times they look lazy with little effort and stupid penalties. I am not complaining we are leaps and bounds and head of where we were four or five years ago, but there is still work to be done, is he willing to make the necessary changes or is he content to be an 8-4 to 10-2 kind of guy and not ever really get over the hump in a big way, those types of teams remind me of Mark Richt at Georgia , fine coach but ultimately never won big.

 

[theFallGuy]

I agree with OP on the impact of losing Golesh. Our offense productivity has been completely different since he left.

Please do some research, this is a ridiculous comment.

 

[xpsyclonex2002]

We've got good problems. We're a 10 win team complaining about that not being enough.
CJH did seem to struggle after Golesh left. Just like Fulmer was never the same after Cutcliff left. But I don't think Golesh was depended on to the level of Cutcliff. I think we are struggling with QB and receivers meshing with each other. Whenever we play anyone that would be considered a quality team, they behave like they have never played together in their lives. We have no vertical threat. Imagine what this post would look like if we hit 20% of those deep balls we dropped this year......

 

[theFallGuy]

I don't really believe in the idea that there's a singular defining moment, but to reach our goals this year we need to show the committee that we can move the ball through the air. I've said it a few times today already, but I just do not think more of the same is going to change anyone's mind about Tennessee. We need to win the "undecided" votes by putting a good passing game on display the next two weeks. Otherwise, we'll just be hoping teams around us in the rankings lose. I'd rather impose our will on the rankings than just keep trucking along and hope for the best.

I also don't buy into the idea that our offense left when Golesh left. He was a good OC, but USF has scored less than 17 points in 5 games this season - including 7 against Navy, 3 against Memphis, and 10 against Tulane. They'd be scoring more points than that if he were the offensive wizard that people make him out to be.

if only he had Hooker, Hyatt and Tillman and Wright. It's almost like having those guys makes a big difference in what your offense can do.

 

[Golfprovol]

Can we please get one thread for all the BS about the offense?

How about we divide VolNation into 2 divisions? One where all the negative fans go and the other for the rest of us?!?!

 

[Golfprovol]

Coach has done some great things here, but ultimately until he finds a way to beat Georgia We are not an elite team. Kirby has taken over as the SEC‘s king with the retirement of Nick Saban. I believe he needs to make some changes this off-season and is he willing to part ways with his friends or buddies that he’s coached with for years? They say he calls the plays , but there has been a definite drop off in the last two seasons, and I don’t know if it’s him or the offensive coordinator, he’s an offensive guy and the offense has been disappointing this year other than I feel like we’ve ran the ball well and we’ve beat up on inferior opponents. I also think to some extent his teams are undisciplined, at times they look lazy with little effort and stupid penalties. I am not complaining we are leaps and bounds and head of where we were four or five years ago, but there is still work to be done, is he willing to make the necessary changes or is he content to be an 8-4 to 10-2 kind of guy and not ever really get over the hump in a big way, those types of teams remind me of Mark Richt at Georgia , fine coach but ultimately never won big.

Were we "elite" in the 90's?

 

[JMSqb11]

Now I know that there will be push-back on this topic. But can we just ask the question that is sitting out there. I didn't really mean to sound too dramatic with this thread......but for some time I've said that CJH will have to re-invent/re-shape his offense as smart defensive coaches adapt to his unique style. Last year made I was mildly concerned with offensive drop-off, but this year it seems clear that Coach is struggling to adjust his system to continue and remain productive. 2024 in CJH's professional life has been unique and challenging obviously.
But is he evolving as he must, or is he a bit lost? THIS is the defining question regarding not only his tenure at UT but his long term coaching legacy.
I suspect the loss of Golesh was a much bigger set-back than most realize. There are holes on this team that are chronic problems at UT. Offensive line recruiting and development have been suspect for many years (at least in my view). Talent in the defensive backfield and at LB has either been thin or not developed. Penalties are problematic and we cannot currently "outscore our mistakes". Play calling at least superficially appears predictable and therefore it must accept some responsibility for our repetitive two-quarter scoring lapses.

So I eagerly await input from those on this forum who understand football far better than I. Some might suggest this team has produced beyond expectations. I am proud of this team at 8-2 but there are some troubling signs. Our identity, Coach's adaptability, and player development have been difficult this year and yet I think in many ways some would call 2024 one of Huep's best, despite the things listed above. I've seen suggestions that all the Huepel-esque style offenses are not producing as before. If so, why? Is our coach evolving as he must? Let me say that I really like Coach Huep and his character. I think he is a good man and I'm pulling for him big-time. But I am concerned. OK, I'll hang up and listen.

I don't think so. Heupel has now elevated the program to an average of 9-10 wins as the floor which was the ceiling (9 wins) for 13 seasons before he got here.....

The more and more I think about it, I see him being in Dabo's record/situation prior to Watson showing up on campus. Hopefully Nico is the franchise QB that Watson turned out to be and elevates Heupel and the program.

 

[utvolpj]

We've now reached a point in his tenure when 10-2 won't be good enough. It's like the last 15yrs didn't happen

 

[bigorangepoppa]

It seems like Nico is trying to hit the deep passes and doesn't throw underneath much at all. Quick slants over the middle, even if they only gain 5-6 yards, keeps the ball moving toward the goal line. The deep ball is a thing of beauty when it is caught, but if it isn't then you have 2 more downs to get a first down.

Another thing I've noticed, what happened to 3 receivers out to the side boundary? The receiver who caught the pass had 2 blockers in front of him, so there were a lot of yardage gained with that set. Most of the time now, their is only one receiver out wide, and when he catches the ball, the corner is usually right on top of him. Little to no gain, even a loss of yards sometimes.

 

[Fatman Photos]

YEP, We Need To Start All Over Again

 

[IndyVol46]

Yes, I think CJH is at a pivotal time in his tenure. Then again, any and every coach seems to be at this same point around year 3 or 4.

Long gone are the days of coaches being allowed 5 plus to build a program with medium success. These days if you aren't winning championships in year 3, you are done at most places that value football.

It's a sad reflection of the expectations of fans today.

Fans, and University bank accounts....