Are you in favor of a bailout for the Automotive Industry?

Are you in favor of a bailout for the Automotive Industry?

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#26
#26
I'm for the bailout to the extent that we use those funds as a hammer to force the companies to lead the way toward greener cars and rid themselves of the unions.

If they don't rid themselves of the unions, then this is little more than welfare for those folks and the employees, even if they do move to greener vehicles that lead the world. Since they won't be able to anything smaller or greener for a profit, our cash is simply paying pensions and union employees.

Rasputin's fat cats are a pittance compared to the employees in terms of pay.
 
#27
#27
SavageOrangeJug said:
No, executive salaries should be the first to be slashed. There should also be a 'no bonuses' clause attached to any bailout.
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i thought you were against socialism....j/k

the executive salaries are something to address, i agree, but the bulk of the "overpay" is going to the UAW
 
#28
#28
executive salaries are not the problem. by and large most of these banks were brought down by the traders and investment bankers, not the CEOs.
 
#29
#29
They won't fail completely - they may be bought (by a foreign company) but their operations will exist in some form or fashion.
 
#30
#30
droski said:
delta is strong? people are far less likely to buy a car from a bankrupt company they are to take a flight. i don't support handing these people money unless we get significant layoffs and UAW concessions because otherwise they'll blow through this money in a year or two and then we are back where we started.
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I agree 100% with this.
 
#31
#31
Forget the TARP, forget bailing out these industries... Give every man, woman, and child in USA $5-10K in cash

Sure it will cost a few trillion but the current plan will cost us a few trillion in the end anyway

That would jump start our economy

What would you do? Pay down debt, buy a house, buy a boat, blow it in vegas?

Who cares!
 
#32
#32
VolsNSkinsFan said:
Congrats its up 12% today. Declare victory and sell asap.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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Thanks. You are probably correct, but 90% of my savings are in very safe investments. I need to roll the dice every one in a while. So I am willing to hold on to the stock for an extended period. It will either work or not. However, I never gamble with money that I cannot afford to lose.

Actually, there are much better potential investments with the oil stocks these days. In general, they have dropped 40-60% in 6 months with P/E 's below 5. In a 2-3 year time frame, I believe the chances of them going much higher are pretty good.
 
#33
#33
droski said:
delta is strong? people are far less likely to buy a car from a bankrupt company they are to take a flight. i don't support handing these people money unless we get significant layoffs and UAW concessions because otherwise they'll blow through this money in a year or two and then we are back where we started.
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The union concessions need to happen first. GM will be closing their Janesville (SUV) plant at the end of the year and the UAW workers will receive full benefits and 85% of their pay for 3 years.
 
#34
#34
jcwvolfan said:
The union concessions need to happen first. GM will be closing their Janesville (SUV) plant at the end of the year and the UAW workers will receive full benefits and 85% of their pay for 3 years.
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Another reason we are where we are today....people getting paid for nothing. Three years....that is a crime, or should be.
 
#35
#35
overseasorange2 said:
Thanks. You are probably correct, but 90% of my savings are in very safe investments. I need to roll the dice every one in a while. So I am willing to hold on to the stock for an extended period. It will either work or not. However, I never gamble with money that I cannot afford to lose.

Actually, there are much better potential investments with the oil stocks these days. In general, they have dropped 40-60% in 6 months with P/E 's below 5. In a 2-3 year time frame, I believe the chances of them going much higher are pretty good.
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I understand you got to keep boredom at bay

I just hate to see people make a call on a short term bottom and watch it pop only to watch it slowly come down. 12% in one day is a really nice move, but the stock closed only up 5% so these moves a big and need to be taken advantage of
 
#36
#36
Heard some union guys talking today and it went something like this:

"If they give those automakers that bailout, the first thing they should make them do is get rid of those big shots that do nothing and make all that money".

Yep, that is it. Those big shots making that money because they do nothing. I am sure most people could do their job and hardly anyone could do yours. Must be why you need your wages negeotiated for via collective bargaining. The one thing the big shots at GM and Ford failed to do was to ever break some of those contract talks off in the unions arses.
 
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#42
#42
Im wondering how long the 25 billion will last with Ford, GM and Chrysler's burn rates. Hrmm.
 
#43
#43
I like the idea of using a bailout as leverage to decrease the stranglehold of the unions...but it ain't gonna happen, is it? In hearing what Obama had to say today, that pipe dream blew up in my mind....

I can't help but remember a discussion I had with my uncle back in 2000 when I was trying to decide who to vote for. He is a union member and just about died when he found out I might vote for a republican. My dad had recently lost his job when his plant moved to Mexico (they were non-unionized). He immediately threw that in my face and offered the position that all companies would do that if they weren't constrained by union contracts...which is obviously flawed...but I didn't have a lot of good ammo to put up against his thoughts - particularly considering the emotion involved considering my father's position. With that said, my father still says he wouldn't join a union and wouldn't work at a place that has one.

I just don't see unions as a positive force in today's American industry, and hope that this important industry can somehow get out from under this stranglehold.
 
#44
#44
I just don't see unions as a positive force in today's American industry, and hope that this important industry can somehow get out from under this stranglehold.[/QUOTE]


wouldn't the only way be to let them go into Chapter 11, then all contracts have to get renegotiated, at that point the government could tie the "aid" to busting the union
 
#45
#45
T-TownVol said:
wouldn't the only way be to let them go into Chapter 11, then all contracts have to get renegotiated, at that point the government could tie the "aid" to busting the union
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I don't know, is it? :)

I'm not sure what options are available, but using this money as a bargaining chip would be great. The problem is that it is very hard to imagine a scenario where this administration does that. I saw on CNN tonight that the Obama camp is thinking seriously about naming a "CAR CZAR" for God's sake. As if the name isn't bad enough, the implications are troubling. I was hoping that he wouldn't be quite so beholden to the unions, but I guess he is.......makes sense, but one can hope....
 
#46
#46
TennTradition said:
I don't know, is it? :)

I'm not sure what options are available, but using this money as a bargaining chip would be great. The problem is that it is very hard to imagine a scenario where this administration does that. I saw on CNN tonight that the Obama camp is thinking seriously about naming a "CAR CZAR" for God's sake. As if the name isn't bad enough, the implications are troubling. I was hoping that he wouldn't be quite so beholden to the unions, but I guess he is.......makes sense, but one can hope....
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this will, i am afraid, be his answer to almost every issue that he adresses over the next four years....bigger government
he is completely beholden to the unions, he will not give up 3 million votes without a fight

Chapter 11 is our only way out, i am afraid
 
#50
#50
Two things need to happen before I would be okay with a bailout. The unions need to go, and US automakers need to show they can build decent automobiles again. After working on cars for the last two years of my life, I got plenty of opportunities to see the shortcomings of American engineering. We are literally years/a decade behind Asia and Europe in terms of car production; technology and quality.

South Korea is capable of producing better cars than us now. It's getting sad. During my trip to Japan I got a chance to talk to some engineers for Nissan and Honda, who happened to be very bright. I've also gotten to speak to engineers for the big three over here. IMO other major car-manufacturing countries are simply producing many more people with better educations than the US who just produce better cars.

What needs to be done is a rejuvenation of automotive engineering programs at major universities by providing incentive to do so, and getting the funds available to make something like that happen (squashing unions, among other things).
 
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