Area 51

#52
#52
n_huffhines said:
Would you guess the secrets are worth 650k lives?
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That's for the 650k to decide. As I said, actions have consequences.

One more analogy and I'm out. If I get pulled over for going 80 in a 40, and if I charge at the officer I'm probably going to get shot. Certainly speeding isn't worthy of the death penalty, but the officer was acting in self defense and, as such those were the consequences of my choice to make a charge at him. This is exactly what we're talking about times 650k. Anyway, I'm out. I don't have the stamina for a lengthy debate.
 
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#53
#53
n_huffhines said:
That's not an idea that satisfies justice. You're talking about culpability, not justice.

Did the founding Fathers escape justice because they won their revolt and weren't hanged?
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Well if the people storming area 51 win then they have nothing to worry about.
 
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#54
#54
crusse10 said:
Wouldn't make immigration as big of an issue anymore. Plenty of jobs to go around
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We are 7m (or were like 3 months ago) workers short according to Trump's US Chamber of Commerce, so 650k (some of whom definitely are not working) wouldn't make a huge difference.
 
#55
#55
These signs are posted all over the perimeters of the installations I've been assigned to.

220px-Use_of_Deadly_Force_Authorized_(5730792058).jpg
 
#57
#57
malinoisvol said:
These signs are posted all over the perimeters of the installations I've been assigned to.

220px-use_of_deadly_force_authorized_-5730792058-jpg.212901
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That sign's kind of funny because it's worded like deadly force is authorized for conducting searches. It's like, "What are you hiding up your ass?" BOOM! "Oh, okay, looks like it wasn't anything."
 
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#58
#58
n_huffhines said:
We are 7m (or were like 3 months ago) workers short according to Trump's US Chamber of Commerce, so 650k (some of whom definitely are not working) wouldn't make a huge difference.
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Honestly I was just messing around. Trump is a moron and so are the people who would consider doing something this stupid. Really I was just looking at this through the Thanos viewpoint
 
#59
#59
crusse10 said:
Honestly I was just messing around. Trump is a moron and so are the people who would consider doing something this stupid. Really I was just looking at this through the Thanos viewpoint
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I figured it was in jest, but I wanted to share a little-known and important fact.
 
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#63
#63
Just spitballing here but if 650k did decide to attack a US military installation then that is technically an army and an act of war. So by declaring war on the us with an army (not well trained but still) the loss of life is a causality of war. And you really can’t say they aren’t warned ahead of time that deadly force would be used. It’s basically mass suicide.
 
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#64
#64
n_huffhines said:
Jesus. Justified or authorized? The only way it's justified is if the lives are worth less than the secrets they are guarding.
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Precedent. For anything. You cant ignore the end result if it happens just because of the number of people who do it. Its mob rule. Several hundred thousand people rob a bank or trespass on private property and they would still be guilty. Cant not punish them because theres a lot of them.

If it was a lone guy and he ended up getting shot, it wouldn't be an issue. But because there is a lot of them it matters now?

You cant justify or ignore bad action because of the number of people doing it.
 
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#65
#65
n_huffhines said:
Would you guess the secrets are worth 650k lives?
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It's an Air Force testing facility with a lot of the X craft. At least one of the x craft developed there was responsible for keeping the cold war cold. I forget which in particular but it was a spy plane and it was able to get better photos of something in Russia we were planning on attacking. In the end, with better photos, we saw it was nothing and attack was called off. Also just in general better surveillance lowers blood pressure as you know what they are doing vs assuming the worst.

So avoiding ww3 would be worth 650k self imposed idiots.
 
#66
#66
LouderVol said:
Precedent. For anything. You cant ignore the end result if it happens just because of the number of people who do it. Its mob rule. Several hundred thousand people rob a bank or trespass on private property and they would still be guilty. Cant not punish them because theres a lot of them.

If it was a lone guy and he ended up getting shot, it wouldn't be an issue. But because there is a lot of them it matters now?

You cant justify or ignore bad action because of the number of people doing it.
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None of this is relevant to the core of question I'm asking. Are the secrets worth 650k lives? If not, then it's not justified, it's just authorized.

It's not like robbing a bank because that's a property crime against other people. People forcing their way into knowledge kept from them by government (that supposedly serves them) is not the same as theft.
 
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#72
#72
n_huffhines said:
Motives don't justify actions, IMO, they just explain them. So no on that.

Actions would be justified depending on what they find.
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They have no right o enter a military base. It’s law and posted. So no their actions aren’t justified, they are illegal. They are an act of war and domestic terror.
 
#73
#73
n_huffhines said:
None of this is relevant to the core of question I'm asking. Are the secrets worth 650k lives? If not, then it's not justified, it's just authorized.

It's not like robbing a bank because that's a property crime against other people. People forcing their way into knowledge kept from them by government (that supposedly serves them) is not the same as theft.
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What value will this information have for them to risk their lives? What is being withheld that would help the people?

It's still 100% theft. I am part of a credit union, doesnt mean I can just walk in and take information away. The elected leaders have said they cant have the info, and frankly I haven't heard of any one budging on this. So if you are going to argue the collective, the collective leaders have said no. And they may have to enforce this.

It's not punishing 650k for the actions of 1. This is punishing 650k individuals for their own actions.

650k would be a real good start for a FOI request. There is a process, they arent following it.

Also it looks like Area 51 has been declassified. Back in 2013. So this isnt a hunt for deep dark secrets, it's people not liking what they got and throwing a tantrum.

We arent a collective. The people dont share ownership of anything government related. I get that that doesnt fit your anarchist mind set but that's what we are. And unless you can point to something in the Constitution I fail to see why the government should think otherwise.
 
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#74
#74
And I think that stopping domestic terrorist with lethal force is a justified killing if it’s one person on 1 million
 
#75
#75
bigdaddy said:
They have no right o enter a military base. It’s law and posted. So no their actions aren’t justified, they are illegal. They are an act of war and domestic terror.
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Legality isn't the only factor in determining what's just.
 
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