Atheist same as Agnostic?

#27
#27
SavageOrangeJug said:
Atheism: The belief that there was nothing, and nothing happened to nothing. Then for no reason, nothing magically exploded creating everything. Then for no reason whatsoever, everything miraculously rearranged itself in to self replicating bits. The self replicating bits then turned into dinosaurs.

Now, what was that about the Bible being the greatest story ever told?
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While there are many theories surrounding the creation of the universe and how life began from the primordial soup, there really is no question of what happened. There was a bang, the universe expanded and cooled, stars and planets formed, eventually chemicals came together to form life. The real question is how. Atheists believe it just happened by chance. Agnostics don't see any evidence to suggest a supreme being, but believe it is possible. Theists believe their god or gods of choice were responsible, and they may or may not choose to believe their own little creation story that some men made up thousands of years ago.
 
#28
#28
bwyatt1 said:
While there are many theories surrounding the creation of the universe and how life began from the primordial soup, there really is no question of what happened. There was a bang, the universe expanded and cooled, stars and planets formed, eventually chemicals came together to form life. The real question is how. Atheists believe it just happened by chance. Agnostics don't see any evidence to suggest a supreme being, but believe it is possible. Theists believe their god or gods of choice were responsible, and they may or may not choose to believe their own little creation story that some men made up thousands of years ago.
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The Big Bang is a scientific theory.
 
#29
#29
The big bang is theory, but you also called out evolution which is generally regarded as fact at this point.
 
#31
#31
therealUT said:
I believe the word you were looking for was "gnostic". I highly doubt that distancing the Church from books that discuss magic and black magic (a similarity of many of the gnostic gospels) contributed to the "Dark Ages".

However, if you want to talk about the Catholic Church and its contribution to the education and the arts that inspired the Renaissance and the Enlightenment, then please feel free to do so.
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The two books i mentioned discuss neither magic or black magic. Unless you count miracles, such as a young Christ raising a dead young boy his friend, to recount the assumption that he had killed him. also the turning of clay birds into live fowl.The book of Philip.
The other the book of Mary magdalen discusses the Church in such a way that the very foundations of all religions would not have ever been formed as the way to heaven.The seat of gods power on earth.
All these things in the 3rd century A.D.when the cannon was formed .
These were contributing factors in the catholic Church's Polices and edicts for centuries to come,and today.
Now agnostic derives or was coined in 1870 I believe.With gnostic as the root word and all that it implies.
I was just pointing out the differences in agnostic and Atheist.The way I understand it .
 
#33
#33
SavageOrangeJug said:
The Big Bang is a scientific theory.
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It's a theory backed up with a lot of concrete evidence. There are a few missing pieces (The God particle) to the puzzle but it doesn't negate all we now. There most certainly was a bang, the question is what happened at time point zero to create that bang.

Same thing with evolution, although it really isn't a theory. There are theories on how species evolve, natural selection being the most widely accepted.
 
#34
#34
However, if you want to talk about the Catholic Church and its contribution to the education and the arts that inspired the Renaissance and the Enlightenment, then please feel free to do so.[/QUOTE]

The catholic Church fought tooth and nail education, the arts, unless it was Church approved.

Point in fact Sir Issac Newton and gravity.Astronomy and science.All were delayed as acceptable for years by the catholic church.

Enlightenment.Delayed as long as possible by the church as well.
 
#35
#35
When left uninterrupted by man, everything in nature works too perfect to have just happened.

Nature is virtually flawless in it's design.

There is no doubt in my mind that this Earth was seeded.

Whether you like it or not. We are somebody's ant farm.
 
#36
#36
SavageOrangeJug said:
When left uninterrupted by man, everything in nature works too perfect to have just happened.

Nature is virtually flawless in it's design.

There is no doubt in my mind that this Earth was seeded.

Whether you like it or not. We are somebody's ant farm.
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Maybe not ant farm. I prefer grand design.
 
#37
#37
SavageOrangeJug said:
When left uninterrupted by man, everything in nature works too perfect to have just happened.

Nature is virtually flawless in it's design.

There is no doubt in my mind that this Earth was seeded.

Whether you like it or not. We are somebody's ant farm.
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This is also known as the "teleological argument" . . .

The argument
Although there are variations, the basic argument can be stated as follows:

X is too complex, orderly, adaptive, apparently purposeful, or beautiful to have occurred randomly or accidentally.
Therefore, X must have been created by a sentient, intelligent, wise, or purposeful being.
God is that sentient, intelligent, wise, or purposeful being.
Therefore, God exists.

(I cut and pasted that from Wikipedia).
 
#38
#38
Two things to blow your minds if opened minded.
The star of Bethlehem.com.which is in process of becoming a movie.Or go through god tube.com
Also the bible code,Book 1 or 2

Both based on science.Or the interpretation of science.
 
#39
#39
orangeblooded2 said:
The two books i mentioned discuss neither magic or black magic. Unless you count miracles, such as a young Christ raising a dead young boy his friend, to recount the assumption that he had killed him. also the turning of clay birds into live fowl.The book of Philip.
The other the book of Mary magdalen discusses the Church in such a way that the very foundations of all religions would not have ever been formed as the way to heaven.The seat of gods power on earth.
All these things in the 3rd century A.D.when the cannon was formed .
These were contributing factors in the catholic Church's Polices and edicts for centuries to come,and today.
Now agnostic derives or was coined in 1870 I believe.With gnostic as the root word and all that it implies.
I was just pointing out the differences in agnostic and Atheist.The way I understand it .
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The cannon was actually formed at the tail end of the Fourth Century.

Also, you are still quite wrong about trying to connect "gnostic" and "agnostic".

Here is another word for the day: meek.

Hint: it is not tied to the word "weak".
 
#40
#40
orangeblooded2 said:
The catholic Church fought tooth and nail education, the arts, unless it was Church approved.

Point in fact Sir Issac Newton and gravity.Astronomy and science.All were delayed as acceptable for years by the catholic church.

Enlightenment.Delayed as long as possible by the church as well.
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Newton. Galileo. Copernicus. All received Catholic educations.
 
#41
#41
therealUT said:
The cannon was actually formed at the tail end of the Fourth Century.

Also, you are still quite wrong about trying to connect "gnostic" and "agnostic".

Here is another word for the day: meek.

Hint: it is not tied to the word "weak".
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Go to dictionary .com type it in and read,they are tied together.Period.

This is a forum if you disagree fine.
Personal attacks are for the "weak" minded.:crazy:
 
#43
#43
SavageOrangeJug said:
When left uninterrupted by man, everything in nature works too perfect to have just happened.

Nature is virtually flawless in it's design.

There is no doubt in my mind that this Earth was seeded.

Whether you like it or not. We are somebody's ant farm.
Click to expand...

If everything in nature works so perfectly, how come there is no life on any other planets in our solar system or anywhere else throughout the universe (that we know of)? The odds of planet earth forming with the appropriate conditions to sustain life, and that life would evolve to the point we are today are astronomical. But the universe is astronomically large, so we are quite lucky. Of course, you can argue that an external being guided this formation because there is no way to prove or disprove that, but you cannot argue that earth and life didn't form this way.
 
#44
#44
orangeblooded2 said:
Personal attacks are for the "weak" minded.:crazy:
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You attack my God, I will take personal shots at you. Also, this whole "play nice" attitude...it is a creation of weak liberals. You do know that gentlemen used to actually duel over words, right?

orangeblooded2 said:
All of which the Church suppressed.It's historical record.
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Obviously they suppressed it, that is why we know nothing of it today. At the height of its power, the Catholic Church had the power to actually suppress these three men...to include torture and kill them for being heretics. Funny, the Catholic Church basically gave all three a slap on the wrist. Feel free to throw Voltaire and his philosophies into the conversation, too.
 
#45
#45
bwyatt1 said:
If everything in nature works so perfectly, how come there is no life on any other planets in our solar system or anywhere else throughout the universe (that we know of)? The odds of planet earth forming with the appropriate conditions to sustain life, and that life would evolve to the point we are today are astronomical. But the universe is astronomically large, so we are quite lucky. Of course, you can argue that an external being guided this formation because there is no way to prove or disprove that, but you cannot argue that earth and life didn't form this way.
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You answered your own question.

If the entire universe formed with one Big Bang, then obviously the same molecular structures were dispersed everywhere. Why did life only "evolve" on Earth?

Scientist theorize there are more stars in the universe, than grains of sand on this Earth. Each star is like the Sun. Each with it's own set of planetary bodies orbiting.

To think that we are the only intelligent life form in this universe is almost laughable. The odds against us being the only intelligent life are astronomical.
 
#46
#46
therealUT said:
You attack my God, I will take personal shots at you. Also, this whole "play nice" attitude...it is a creation of weak liberals. You do know that gentlemen used to actually duel over words, right?


Obviously they suppressed it, that is why we know nothing of it today. At the height of its power, the Catholic Church had the power to actually suppress these three men...to include torture and kill them for being heretics. Funny, the Catholic Church basically gave all three a slap on the wrist. Feel free to throw Voltaire and his philosophies into the conversation, too.
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I'm sorry you took it personally.I never saw it as attacking god, sense he is my god as well.
I was speaking of the suppression of the science,not of their education.Which you may be correct on, I'm well read and I never had seen they were catholic educated.
I can also understand your anger.But with all that goes on in the world I think you could find a more constructive use for it.
I will allow you the last word. I don't feel comfortable taking this any further.
May god bless.
 
#47
#47
orangeblooded2 said:
Go to dictionary .com type it in and read,they are tied together.Period.
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Other than their greek root, they are not similar.

Agnostic:
1: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god
2: a person unwilling to commit to an opinion about something

Gnosticism:
the thought and practice especially of various cults of late pre-Christian and early Christian centuries distinguished by the conviction that matter is evil and that emancipation comes through gnosis

Gnosis:
esoteric knowledge of spiritual truth held by the ancient Gnostics to be essential to salvation

...feel free to come to your own conclusions...
 
#49
#49
I have questions.

1) Is perfection not a human concept?
2) With the universe being so large, is it not only possible, but probable that one or more "perfect" environments developed?
3) How is it that all of this happening by "chance" (another human concept) is so far-fetched?

I am not calling any of you out for your beliefs, I respect them, I just don't share them
 
#50
#50
emainvol said:
I have questions.

1) Is perfection not a human concept?
2) With the universe being so large, is it not only possible, but probable that one or more "perfect" environments developed?
3) How is it that all of this happening by "chance" (another human concept) is so far-fetched?

I am not calling any of you out for your beliefs, I respect them, I just don't share them
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1) Perfection was invented by humans with the evolution of the human brain, the most complex anything on earth. There's no base for perfection, therefore, there is no perfect.
2)These environments aren't "perfect." If they were, that would prove that a God exists.
3) It's not far-fetched, those arguing just don't give it a chance. They try to disprove using the Bible.

I share the same beliefs as you, Emain, I think. I tend to lean more towards Atheism but consider myself Agnostic because I still hold the same moral values as those as Christianity and the various religions. If I were to believe in a religion, I'd go with Eastern religions... mainly Buddhism.
 
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