Atheist same as Agnostic?

[therealUT]

Any logical and objective observer would have to concede that something cannot ever come from nothing, in nature. Therefore, logically and objectively, one has to conclude that a supernatural force was there before the beginning of time.

That supernatural force had to have been so completely wise, universal, and powerful to have created a system (what we know as science and the laws of nature) that would not only last but would continue to thrive, learn, and advance over millions and millions of years.

Knowing, objectively and absolutely, that a supernatural force existed in the beginning, yet believing that the force no longer exists or plays a part in the progress of the created, is lunacy at best, denial for some, and pure idiocy for most.

 

[defaultusername]

Don't waste your time, therealUT. I kept slapping my forehead when this guy didn't know the difference between agnostic and gnosticism. NO CONNECTION TRY AGAIN PLZ!!!

This is a place that lets some people who have no clue about anything have a say at everything.

 

[VOLatile]

It's an endless circle of thought... How did the supernatural force come about? Something HAD to come from nothing and SOME POINT.

 

[therealUT]

No. Not a circle. The thought process is incredibly linear and logical.

 

[VOLatile]

No. Not a circle. The thought process is incredibly linear and logical.

Either way, endless. You come back to the same question every time. What came first, the chicken or the egg?

 

[therealUT]

Either way, endless. You come back to the same question every time. What came first, the chicken or the egg?

Negative, again. The super natural force had to have come before the natural forces.

 

[emainvol]

Knowing, objectively and absolutely, that a supernatural force existed in the beginning, yet believing that the force no longer exists or plays a part in the progress of the created, is lunacy at best, denial for some, and pure idiocy for most.

Just for the sake of argument, if this supernatural force is all-powerful, -knowing, etc. Would it not then be possible that it decided to no longer exist?

 

[therealUT]

Just for the sake of argument, if this supernatural force is all-powerful, -knowing, etc. Would it not then be possible that it decided to no longer exist?

It is completely possible.

 

[emainvol]

It is completely possible.

Then why would the belief that it did be lunacy?

 

[therealUT]

Then why would the belief that it did be lunacy?

Touche. :question:

 

[therealUT]

I just do not believe that a sane observer would look at this supernatural creative force and believe that after creating this entirely complex and beautiful universe, it simply decided to distinguish itself.

 

[emainvol]

I just do not believe that a sane observer would look at this supernatural creative force and believe that after creating this entirely complex and beautiful universe, it simply decided to distinguish itself.

I am certainly not trying to discount anything you have said, in fact I find your stance to be a very interesting one. I am not really in the right frame of mind for a philosophical/theological discussion at the moment though. So I will get back to it when I don't have to be up terribly early in the morning.

 

[defaultusername]

I must give kudos to this conversation. The essence of civil discourse!

 

[bwyatt1]

You answered your own question.

If the entire universe formed with one Big Bang, then obviously the same molecular structures were dispersed everywhere. Why did life only "evolve" on Earth?

Scientist theorize there are more stars in the universe, than grains of sand on this Earth. Each star is like the Sun. Each with it's own set of planetary bodies orbiting.

To think that we are the only intelligent life form in this universe is almost laughable. The odds against us being the only intelligent life are astronomical.

No, I was pointing out that nature isn't nearly as perfect throughout the universe, just here on earth. It's possible God has a hand in it, and it is quite possible that it happened by chance because the universe is so large. There is a good possibility that there is life out there and maybe even civilization, but that still doesn't change the possibility that it all happened by chance.

I know I'm not going to change you mind, and you aren't going to change mine, but I've enjoyed the debate. I'm ndone for the night.

 

[therealUT]

I must give kudos to this conversation. The essence of civil discourse!

Some of us go way back...

 

[VOLatile]

Negative, again. The super natural force had to have come before the natural forces.

Proof?

Because there is none, then I believe I have proven my point.

 

[therealUT]

Proof?

Because there is none, then I believe I have proven my point.

Unless you are suddenly aware of some change in the laws of nature, then it is easily proofed that prior to the beginning of time, there had to have been a supernatural force.

I am glad you are so completely confident in your own ignorance.

 

[VOLatile]

Unless you are suddenly aware of some change in the laws of nature, then it is easily proofed that prior to the beginning of time, there had to have been a supernatural force.

I am glad you are so completely confident in your own ignorance.

I'm trying to prove my point that people are still going to question where that "supernatural" force came from...

 

[volinbham]

I have questions.

1) Is perfection not a human concept?
2) With the universe being so large, is it not only possible, but probable that one or more "perfect" environments developed?
3) How is it that all of this happening by "chance" (another human concept) is so far-fetched?

I am not calling any of you out for your beliefs, I respect them, I just don't share them

Speaking of human concepts, the notion of "reason" is such a human creation. Much of the atheistic attack on a belief in God reverts back to the notion of reason - which is in and off itself a human creation.

Obviously there is a major assumption being made when one alludes to "reason" as their justification for a philosophical belief.

 

[hmanvolfan]

Proof?

Because there is none, then I believe I have proven my point.

You only have to have faith the size of a mustard seed to enter the Kingdom of God. Faith being the operative word. Atheism and agnosticism both display no faith so therefore they could mean the same thing theologically.

 

[VOLatile]

You only have to have faith the size of a mustard seed to enter the Kingdom of God. Faith being the operative word. Atheism and agnosticism both display no faith so therefore they could mean the same thing theologically.

Theologically, yes. But outside of that realm, they are two different things. The major difference is that Agnostics don't care either way, Atheists refute religion.

 

[CaedmonVol]

Joe the Plumber started a business from scratch. Therefore he created something from nothing. Therefore Joe the Plumber = GOD.

Obama wants to squelch that supernatural force (a.k.a. the American Dream). Therefore, Obama = the AntiChrist.

 

[BigPapaVol]

Joe the Plumber started a business from scratch. Therefore he created something from nothing. Therefore Joe the Plumber = GOD.

Obama wants to squelch that supernatural force (a.k.a. the American Dream). Therefore, Obama = the AntiChrist.

Joe the Plumber is buying the business that someone else created. Therefore he is buying something, making your analogy senseless.

Obama's nothing but a socialist who believes wholeheartedly in class warfare to buy votes.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[SavageOrangeJug]

Joe the Plumber is buying the business that someone else created. Therefore he is buying something, making your analogy senseless.

Obama's nothing but a socialist who believes wholeheartedly in class warfare to buy votes.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

Obama may very well bring us class warfare, literal class warfare.

 

[CaedmonVol]

Joe the Plumber is buying the business that someone else created. Therefore he is buying something, making your analogy senseless.

Obama's nothing but a socialist who believes wholeheartedly in class warfare to buy votes.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

It's called a joke. If I don't embellish the facts a little bit then the joke doesn't work.

You might lighten up and have a laugh every now and again, it makes life much more enjoyable.